Make Things That Matter

Martina Hodges-Schell is a transformation coach and consultant that helps organizations adopt a Silicon Valley approach to innovation. She spent 25 years leading design and innovation in tech companies, and now she loves providing a fresh, outside perspective to help teams develop and mature their product practice. In this conversation, we… * define transformation and what it means for your company operating model * explore how a company operating model might be shifted by adapting AI technology * Discuss how embodied leadership practices like equine coaching can give leaders the most honest feedback Enjoy! — Topics discussed (05:31) A horse's feedback reflects your behavior and communication (06:51) Feedback on your actions and decision making (10:48) Leaders MUST be involved in change process (13:57) Control is equated with power, active involvement important (18:58) Change is difficult, people resist it (19:45) Balancing ideas within organizations, encouraging participation (25:37) Four lenses for an operating model (29:18) How AI transforms operating model: structure and collaboration challenges (31:36) Organizational structure should promote collaboration and communication (37:17) Optimistic about innovation, promoting change and collaboration (39:55) Focus on broad possibilities, capabilities, and brand (43:16) Closing the loop from teams to leadership (50:20) Guiding questions in life (52:49) Book recommendations — Links & resources mentioned Find the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/martina-hodges-schell-operating-model/#transcript * Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email * Martina Hodges-Schell: website, LinkedIn * Book: Communicating the UX Vision: 13 Anti-patterns That Block Good Design — Related episodes: * #72 Pam Fox Rollin: Growing Groups Into Teams * #75 Chris Smith: Simple guidelines for AI investment sizing * #74 Chris Smith: How to think about adding AI to your product * #77 Marty Cagan: Moving to the product model * #39 Melissa Perri: Product strategy and the missing middle in organizations — People & orgs: * Noelle Saldana — Books: * The Build Trap * Growing Groups Into Teams * TRANSFORMED * Managing Transitions * Transitions: Making Sense of Life's Changes * Leading Change — Other resources: * Martina’s OMG (operating model goals) canvas * North Shore - AI transformation blog series This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Marty Cagan joins me for real talk about what it takes to transform into a strong product company. You can read the episode transcript here. — Topics discussed: (00:00) The process and challenges in writing a book (12:27) Real world products need tech for results (17:28) Deciding on investments, solving problems, and changing processes (28:11) Understanding disconnects (36:00) Top leadership support crucial (40:28) How product coaches help (44:57) "Being agile" doesn't always mean "doing agile" (49:52) Handling objections well (54:45) How it comes together in an organizational operating model — Links & resources mentioned: Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email Marty Cagan • LinkedIn, website • New book: TRANSFORMED • Previous books: INSPIRED, EMPOWERED • SVPG — Related episodes: • #31 Marty Cagan - Empowering product teams — Books: • The Crux • Good Strategy, Bad Strategy • The Art of Action — Other resources: • Product Management Theater • Product Leadership Theater • Transformation Theater • So You Want To Write a Book? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Randy Silver is a product leadership advisor, podcast host, and global product community weaver. We explore the conversations needed to drive impact and perception of value. You can also read this episode here. — Topics discussed: (04:00) Moving from a journalistic editor to product editor (07:34) Parallels between product management film production (09:53) Missed opportunities & the need for collaboration (15:21) Alignment with stakeholders (18:24) Sales misalignment and restructures (21:10) Diagnosing teamwork challenges with partners (25:02) Diagnosing your new org via informational interviews (28:05) Creating a manager README (30:11) Roles and responsibilities convo for better understanding (35:19) Guiding conversations and change (44:22) Did reorganization at Airbnb address strategy misalignment? (46:18) Defensive reaction within product community to Airbnb (52:14) Coordinating while scaling — Links & resources mentioned Find the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/randy-silver-conversations-create-impact#transcript Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email Randy Silver: website, LinkedIn, Twitter • MTP talk: “Getting aligned with your exec team by Randy Silver” • Podcast: The Product Experience • Book: “What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of Crisis” • The product environment canvas • Stakeholder Informational interview template — Related episodes: • Andrew on Randy’s podcast, The Product Experience • #72 Pam Fox Rollin: Growing groups into teams • #44 Teresa Torres: Habits for clear thinking and better product bets • #18 Josh Seiden: Create clarity with outcomes thinking • #5 Rich Mironov: Building a thriving product organization • #3 Christina Wodtke: Unleashing potential with extraordinary teams — People & orgs: • Georgie Smallwood • Matt LeMay • Alan Albert - value based pricing • Itamar Gilad — Books: • Growing Groups Into Teams • Evidence Guided • The Team That Managed Itself • Continuous Discovery Habits • Outcomes Over Output • Making Things Happen: Mastering Project Management — Other resources: • Product, it’s time to grow up • The 11 Laws of Showrunning • Rich Mironov: The slippery slope of sales-led development • The Journey to Empowered Teams - Twitter, Airbnb & Tumblr • Product Strategy Acid Test • OODA loop • Manager README: The Indispensable Document for the Modern Manager • Roman Pichler - the decision making chart • Relentless equanimity This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Chris Smith is a longtime engineering leader who has been in the trenches of building with AI & machine learning for years. This is a short, bonus episode to go along with our main conversation: https://pod.fo/e/20a5ef — Topics discussed: (00:00) AI tooling allows for cost-effective testing. (06:02) Scoring and statistical measures to track progress. (09:22) Costs if model needs rebuilding or hyperparameter tuning (11:31) Order of magnitude investment estimates (15:10) Decide upfront when to cut bait. (17:12) Investment essentials for meaningful results and outcomes. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Chris Smith is a longtime engineering leader who has been in the trenches of building with AI & machine learning for years. He’s led the development of data systems & strategies at tech giants like early Google, Yahoo, and Sun; S&P 500's like Live Nation; and a wide variety of startups. — Topics discussed: (00:00) AI industry at inflection point, causing chaos (09:05) Machine learning, neural nets, and generative AI (14:03) Generative AI: LLMs + broad understanding (21:56) Open source models improve specialized problem solving (25:06) Access to data leads to competitive advantage (32:53) AI training improves productivity and learning speed (42:51) Reduced investment in GPT models speeds results (48:47) Expectation mismatch leads to brand perception risks (53:54) Non-technical work is crucial for AI product success (57:30) Building a computer vision product from scratch (01:03:14) A strategic approach to refining and testing prototypes (01:08:04) Closing learning loops — Links & resources mentioned Find the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/chris-smith-how-to-add-ai-to-product/#transcript Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email Chris Smith: • LinkedIn • X / Twitter: @xcbsmith • Bluesky @xcbsmith — Related episodes: • #75 Chris Smith: Simple guidelines for AI investment sizing — People & orgs: • Dr. Marily Nika - AI Lead, Meta Reality Lab • Travis Corrigan - Head of Product, Smith.AI — Books: • Evidence Guided - Itamar Gilad — Other resources: • GPT = “generative pre-trained transformer” • Wizard of Oz experiment • Tom Chi - learning loop • Joel Spolsky: The iceberg secret, revealed • ML Ops • Computer vision • Precision-Recall curves • Leaked Google memo: “There is no moat” • Universal basic income (UBI) • Stop-loss order This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Nacho Bassino is a veteran product leader and the author of Product Direction, one of my go-to books on how to actually generate a product strategy. There are many excellent books out there on strategy as a whole, but surprisingly few that specifically cover product strategy. — Topics discussed: (00:02:12) Nacho's journey into product leadership (00:09:23) How leaders can adapt to others' communication and cross-cultural preferences (00:10:50) Strategy: defining problems and prioritizing solutions (00:19:44) Painful, but typical; a fake strategy (00:24:20) Time and team needed for first big strategy creation (00:30:17) Three key aspects of quarterly reviews: OKRs, roadmaps, and Opportunity Solution Trees (00:35:33) Connection between impact, outcomes, and initiatives with revenue generation (00:40:11) Empowerment: teams' accountability and autonomy (00:51:36) Nacho's hard product leadership call (00:58:15) Strategy for startups vs larger companies (00:59:02) How the opportunity space expands with company growth — Links & resources mentioned Find the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/nacho-bassino-build-your-first-product-strategy/#transcript • Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email • Nacho Bassino: Website, LinkedIn • Book: Product Direction • Podcast: 100 Product Strategies — Related episodes: • #68 Adam Thomas: Operationalizing product strategy — Books: • Product Direction • The Culture Map • Playing to Win • Product Roadmaps Relaunched — Other resources and articles: • A product strategy acid test • What is "strategy"? • Burnout as a strategy problem • Should leaders be prescriptive about strategy? • Product strategy: focus vs prioritization • Does strategy matter before product-market fit (PMF)? • Execs care about revenue. How do we get them to care about outcomes? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Pam Fox Rollin is an executive coach and strategist. This is a conversation about the conversations that leaders are not having. These are THE difference between building a truly committed team that delivers the future you care about… and having a group which is a team in name only. Topics discussed: (00:03:55) Writing a book about teams as a team. (00:11:41) Teamwork failure due to individual mindset silos. (00:14:51) Telling the difference between hard work and commitment (00:18:40) OKRs align and drive team objectives. (00:20:54) Incentive structures and team behaviors (00:24:02) Shared promise vital for effective team; align goals and coordinate efforts. (00:28:25) Leaders build futures that matter through conversations. (00:33:08) Finance team doubts engineering's budget needs. (00:36:23) Trust: vulnerability in actions and five dimensions. (00:38:21) Dimensions of trust (00:42:23) Design conversations as a leader to level up. (00:46:01) Challenges of remote work and trust. (00:49:05) Missing conversations hinder team building efforts. (00:53:44) Collaboration needed in achieving desired outcomes. — Links & resources mentioned Find the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/pam-fox-rollin-growing-groups-into-teams/#transcript * Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email * Pam Fox Rollin: LinkedIn, Altus Growth Partners * New book: Growing Groups Into Teams * Altus’ Growth podcast: Missing Conversations — Related episodes: * #22 Pam Fox Rollin: Be a leader who helps people come alive — People & orgs: * Bob Dunham - Institute for Generative Leadership — Books: * Growing Groups Into Teams * The Thin Book of Trust - Charles Feltman — Other resources: * IBM study: “Augmented work for an automated, AI-driven world” * Paper: On the Folly of Rewarding A, While Hoping for B This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Zooming in on three common change management issues: forecasting, role transitions, and departmental power dynamics. — Topics discussed (00:03:01) Companies transforming into product organizations (00:05:01) Revenue shift: smaller now, longer-term impact (00:08:30) Practical topics: forecasting, transition, change management (00:10:04) Identifying leading measures and assumptions in forecasts (00:14:25) Seeking tech-enabled scale, revenue visibility, innovation (00:20:29) Power shifts in organizations impact staffing and funding (00:22:12) Evolving organizational model for product-centric strategy (00:27:23) Key considerations for acquiring a company: purpose, integration, impact (00:31:18) Leaders modeling simple mental health practices shift organizations. Organizational change requires supporting structures and models (00:35:38) Quieting the mind to connect and trust (00:37:33) Organizations need specific change management for success (00:40:40) "Name fears, tame them; face personal insecurities." — Links & resources mentioned Full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/eisha-armstrong-pragmatic-change-management-strategies/#transcript * Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email * Guest: Eisha Tierney Armstrong - LinkedIn * Book: Fearless: How to Transform a Services Culture and Successfully Productize — Related episodes: * #2 Barry O’Reilly: Unlearning and creating culture change * #9 Amy Edmondson: Building teams where people feel safe * #59 Kenny Borg: Identity transformation and embodying fulfillment — Books: * Fearless: How to Transform a Services Culture and Successfully Productize (Eisha’s book) * "Leading Change" by John Kotter * “Managing Transitions: Making the Most of the Change” by William Bridges This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

MJ Jastrebski is the CPO of Stylitics, a rapidly scaling retail technology company that helps retail websites automate styling and bundling for their consumers. Click here to fill out the MTTM listener survey form by August 16, 2023: https://makethingsthatmatter.com/survey — In this episode, we cover: (00:07:20) Understanding product roles/levels, influence, and career growth. (00:13:10) Product and process management at different levels. (00:19:22) Leadership training emphasizes accountability among executive teams, prioritizing cross-functional exec peer relationships & alignment. (00:28:27) The importance of buoyancy. (00:36:17) How mindfulness and empathy are important for effective leadership. (00:43:41) What Stylitics is doing and how it's scaling up (00:47:12) Expanding internationally and into new verticals. Emphasis on shipping and team muscle building. (00:55:38) Creating product families to address pain points, setting expectations, iterating with alpha, beta, and GA stages, building retailer relationships, understanding different market needs. (01:02:08) Changing roles, building skills, and evolving identity. (01:11:30) Creating psychological safety is crucial for innovation. It allows people to take risks without fear of judgment or failure. This enables organizations to gather more information and make better decisions. — Links & resources mentioned • You can end episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email • Guest: MJ Jastrebski & Stylitics — Related episodes: • Mike Saloio: Leadership, meditation, ego, and ubuntu • Amy Edmondson: Building teams where people feel safe • Kenny Borg: Identity transformation — People & orgs: • Stylitics • Carlota Perez — Books: • Technological Revolutions and Financial Capital: The Dynamics of Bubbles and Golden Ages • The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership • Multipliers — Other resources: • Give away your legos • How to craft your product team at every stage, from pre-PMF to hypergrowth • The 3 lenses of innovation This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

It's been quiet around here because I'm in deep in the creative process of reimagining this show, and I need your help. Podcast analytics are terrible, and I want to know more about YOU. Please fill out this short, 5-ish minute survey. Your help on this goes a LONG way, and I appreciate you taking the time! Click here to complete our listener survey https://makethingsthatmatter.com/survey This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Donna Lichaw is an executive coach for unconventional leaders, and the author of the newly-released book The Leader’s Journey. Donna brings a background in design and product to her executive coaching and helps unconventional leaders take control of the story to drive impact for themselves and within their teams. We go deep on: * how to handle managing our own stories in healthy conflict * creating psychological safety * what it looks like to “give yourself an A” so you feel freed up to invent new possibilities Listen now on Apple, Spotify, Google, Overcast, or Youtube. Links & resources * Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email * Donna Lichaw: website, LinkedIn, Twitter * Donna’s new book: The Leader’s Journey — Related episodes: * Mike Saloio: Leadership, meditation, ego, and ubuntu — People & orgs: * Neuroleadership Institute — Books: * The Art of Possibility * Rethinking Positive Thinking * The Upside Of Your Dark Side * Nonviolent Communication * Radical Candor — Other resources: * Donna’s toolkit * The SCARF model (psych safety) * 3F model This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Adam Thomas is a coach that helps product teams operationalize strategy so they spend more time focused on building the right products and less time fighting fires. — Sign up here to get upcoming essays + episodes emailed to you. Follow the MTTM journey on Twitter or LinkedIn! If you haven't already would you do me a favor and take ~40 seconds to rate/review the show on Apple Podcasts ? It really helps. (Scroll to bottom of page for rate/review links.) — Links & resources mentioned: * Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email * Adam Thomas: website, LinkedIn, Twitter * Adam’s Maven workshop: Survival Metrics — Related episodes: * Melissa Perri: Product strategy and the missing middle — Books and media: * Good Strategy, Bad Strategy * The Crux — Other resources: * Warhammer 40K — Timestamps: [00:01:48] War gaming shaped product strategy [00:03:22] Warhammer 40K [00:07:11] Michael Jordan's Winning Shot [00:11:22] The whole person equation [00:14:15] Emotions in the workplace [00:17:54] Survival metrics [00:23:08] Implementing survival metrics [00:27:26] Trust issues in product development [00:30:05] Internal value exchange [00:34:33] Being "Product Led" is Misleading [00:36:26] Using survival metrics consistently [00:39:23] Focusing on important outcomes [00:45:12] Complying with regulations in finance [00:50:13] Questions to ask yourself This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Mike Saloio is the CEO and cofounder of Huddle, a startup that brings together fractional swat teams of expert builders to help startups generate real momentum on their most important projects within a week. This is a candid conversation about leadership and how our egos, sense of identity, and personal practices shape our company cultures. In particular, I think you’ll find practical benefit from our discussion about decoupling the concepts of morality and integrity to have healthier team dynamics. — * Mike Saloio - Twitter, LinkedIn * Huddle — Related episodes: * Barry Brown: Work as a pathway of transformation — People & orgs: * Steph Golik (cofounder) * TechStars * EXPA * Rick Rubin * Alfred Adler * Ray Dalio * Russell Simmons (+ meditation book) — Books and media: * The Courage To Be Disliked * Article - Polarities * Polarity Management (book) * Success Through Stillness * Rick Rubin book * Huddle launch article * The Playbook — Other resources: * Ikigai * “You must become somebody before you become nobody” * Ubuntu * Transcendental Meditation * Four minute mile effect - Bannister effect This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

The SaaS Playbook will shave years off your learning curve if you want to build a SaaS. Rob Walling is a serial entrepreneur and the internet godfather of indie SaaS businesses who has built six companies and has been a long-standing voice in creative, independent paths into product building and entrepreneurship since 2010. Links & resources mentioned * Book: The SaaS Playbook * Back the Kickstarter * Startups for the Rest of Us podcast & MicroConf YouTube * TinySeed * MicroConf — Related episodes: * Rob Walling (ep28): Build a great business and let that be enough * DJ DiDonna: Navigating sabbaticals and career breaks — People & orgs: * TinySeed * MicroConf * Dr Shelly Walling * Justin Jackson - choosing a market — Books: * The SaaS Playbook * The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together * Start Small, Stay Small: A Developer's Guide to Launching a Startup * The Zen Founder Guide to Founder Retreats — Other resources: * MicroConf * IndieHackers * The 5PM idea validation framework * Survivorship bias * Stair step method of bootstrapping This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

What do you do when one of your top three KPIs is stagnant, and the product isn't growing? A micro case study in debugging retention and unlocking growth. — You can read the original article here: https://tinyurl.com/2hdmy2zp LINK: STARTING CONDITION CHART: https://tinyurl.com/2fnemasz LINK: DEEPER DIVE PIE CHART: https://tinyurl.com/2lyjalyp This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Petra Wille is a product leadership coach and the author of Strong Product People, my go-to book for the people development side of being a product leader. In this conversation, we dive deep into why and how a community of practice can level up your team and save training budget. You can also read this episode here. — Sign up here to get upcoming essays + episodes emailed to you. Follow the MTTM journey on Twitter or LinkedIn! — Links & resources mentioned: Petra Wille: • Website • Twitter @loomista • LinkedIn • Book: Strong Product People • Conference: Product at Heart — Related episodes: • Amy Edmondson: Building teams where people feel safe — People & orgs: • Robert Kegan • Tolingo (translation company) — Books: • Strong Product People • An Everyone Culture • The Culture Map • Selling the Dream — Other resources: • Product Communities of Practice: Everything You Need to Know • Dan Pink - Autonomy, mastery, purpose • The (product) cultural iceberg This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Bob Moesta is one of the pioneers of Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) theory, which has fundamentally changed the way we think about building products and discovering what progress people actually need and want from the products they hire. — Sign up here to get upcoming essays + episodes emailed to you. Follow the MTTM journey on Twitter or LinkedIn! If you haven't already would you do me a favor and take ~40 seconds to rate/review the show on Apple Podcasts ? It really helps. (Scroll to bottom of page for rate/review links.) — LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email Bob Moesta: The Rewired Group, LinkedIn, Twitter Bob’s books and podcast Learning to Build Demand-Side Sales 101 Jobs to be Done Handbook The Circuit Breaker podcast — RELATED EPISODES: April Dunford: Find your power in the market through positioning — PEOPLE & ORGS: W. Edwards Deming Clayton Christensen Genichi Taguchi Willie Hobbs Moore Tim Davis Claire Sullentrope April Dunford Ryan Singer Basecamp Intercom — BOOKS: Learning to Build Competing Against Luck Grit Introduction to Quality Engineering Orthogonal Arrays and Linear Graphs Shape Up How Will You Measure Your Life? Never Split the Difference — OTHER RESOURCES: Orthogonal arrays Magic squares L9 prototype This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Sahil Lavingia has had an epic journey as an entrepreneur: he dropped out of college to become employee #2 at Pinterest and then went on to found Gumroad, one of the largest platforms for creators to sell their work and earn a living online. After the company failed to meet its VC-driven growth timeline and almost died, Sahil had to lay everyone off and build it back up into the resilient, streamlined, and fully distributed company it is today. Episode web page. — Sign up here to get upcoming essays + episodes emailed to you. Follow the MTTM journey on Twitter or LinkedIn! If you haven't already would you do me a favor and take ~40 seconds to rate/review the show on Apple Podcasts ? It really helps. (Scroll to bottom of page for rate/review links.) — Links & resources mentioned: • Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email • Sahil Lavingia: Gumroad, Twitter, personal site • Book: The Minimalist Entrepreneur • “Reflecting on My Failure to Build a Billion-Dollar Company”: essay + talk • Sahil’s early stage investment fund — Related episodes: • #42 ARM: A mental model for fulfilling work — People & orgs: • Gumroad • USC • Patreon • BandCamp • Substack • Daniel Vassallo tweet about money he’s made Gumroad • Paul Graham: “You've found market price when buyers complain but still pay.” — Books: • The Minimalist Entrepreneur • Essentialism • Only the Paranoid Survive — Other resources: • How Gumroad is run: No Meetings, No Deadlines, No Full-Time Employees • Video: Gumroad Q4 2022 board meeting - where pricing change was announced • “Reflecting on My Failure to Build a Billion-Dollar Company”: essay + MicroConf talk • What is a transformer model (AI)? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Five things I (re)learned from spending a week with SVPG + some of the best product coaches in the world. ===== You can read this episode here. Sign up here to get upcoming audio essays emailed to you Follow the MTTM journey on Twitter or LinkedIn! If you haven't already would you do me a favor and take ~40 seconds to rate/review the show on Apple Podcasts ? It really helps. (Scroll to bottom of page for rate/review links.) Links & resources mentioned Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email — Related episodes • #60 DJ DiDonna: Navigating sabbaticals and career breaks — People & orgs • Marty Cagan & SVPG — Books • The Thin Book of Trust — Other resources mentioned • Vision example: SpaceX • Vision example: Microsoft productivity • Vision example: Apple’s Knowledge Navigator • Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) • Original agile manifesto This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

DJ DiDonna helps us approach taking REAL time off and evolving our identity along with our career. Whether you’re feeling like you need to take time off, or if you’re curious about what sabbaticals are and why they might be good for both you and your organization, have a listen. You’ll learn about how your interests and identity can evolve along with your career, but not be bound by your career. — Links & resources mentioned • Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email • DJ DiDonna: LinkedIn • The Sabbatical Project — Related episodes: • #59 Kenny Borg: Identity transformation and embodying fulfillment — People & orgs: • The Sabbatical Project — Books: • Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life • Transitions: Making Sense of Life's Changes • Pivot: The Only Move That Matters Is Your Next One • How Will You Measure Your Life? • The Lies of Locke Lamora — Other resources: • TED talk: Stefan Sagmeister: The power of time off • DJ’s TEDx talk: Sabbaticals: Time [off] well spent • LinkedIn career break feature • Research: “The three meanings of meaning in life: Distinguishing coherence, purpose, and significance” • Exercise: 2022 Reflection + 2023 Goal Setting This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com