Front Row

The Book Of Revelation has been described as the most misunderstood and misinterpreted book of the Bible and ought to come with an adults-only "reader's caution" for all its violent imagery. Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States (1801-1809), denied the divine inspiration of the Book of Revelation, describing it to Alexander Smyth (US Representative from Virginia) in 1825 as "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." Despite Revelation's reputation, some, particularly Black people and other people of color, have found it to be hopeful and relevant. Revelation speaks to marginalized and powerless people, to anyone familiar with struggle. Some scholars call it the literature of the oppressed. And yet, we have seen over and over again, people going through tough times are remarkably resilient. There's something within them that keeps them hoping for life to get better, even when darkness seems to be winning. "True hope" is what preacher Peter Gomes calls a muscular hope, the stuff that gets us through and beyond when the worst that can happen happens. "Hope is forged on the anvil of adversity," Gomes famously said. This FRONT ROW podcast features special guests Charlene Sinclair and Peter Laarman. Dr. Charlene Sinclair is an organizer, thinker, and writer whose work centers on the intersection of race, gender, economy, and democracy. Strongly influenced by the pathbreaking thought of the late James Cone, founder of Black Liberation Theology, Dr. Sinclair is committed to fashioning strategies that embrace a liberationist approach to faith and spirituality in the context of popular struggles for racial, economic, and gender justice. Peter Laarman is a retired United Church of Christ minister and activist who led Judson Memorial Church in New York and Progressive Christians Uniting in California. He is currently involved with the King & Breaking Silence webinar project of the National Council of Elders and with the development of a new formation called Social Ethics Energizing Democracy. Charlene and Peter approach Revelation from very different positions.

This podcast series is about perhaps the most challenging and controversial book in the New Testament, The Book Of Revelation. Some Christians love it, and some hate it. Some Christians never talk about it; some never stop talking about it. Some people are using it as a predictor of current events or as part of their impetus for violence and fervor for hatred and political gain. Others apply Revelation as a sort of war against good and evil to almost any situation one might be involved. John Dominic Crossan, professor emeritus at DePaul University and widely regarded as the foremost historical Jesus scholar of our time, says, "The heartbeat of the Christian Bible is a recurrent cardiac cycle in which the asserted radicality of God’s nonviolent distributive justice is subverted by the normalcy of civilization's violent retributive justice. And, of course, the most profound annulment is that both assertion and subversion are attributed to the same God or the same Christ." This FRONT ROW podcast features special guests Dr. Charlene Sinclair and Rev. Peter Laarman. Dr. Charlene Sinclair is an organizer, thinker, and writer whose work centers on the intersection of race, gender, economy, and democracy. Strongly influenced by the pathbreaking thought of the late James Cone, founder of Black Liberation Theology, Dr. Sinclair is committed to fashioning strategies that embrace a liberationist approach to faith and spirituality in the context of popular struggles for racial, economic, and gender justice. Rev. Peter Laarman is a retired United Church of Christ minister and activist who led Judson Memorial Church in New York and Progressive Christians Uniting in California. He is currently involved with the King & Breaking Silence webinar project of the National Council of Elders and with the development of a new formation called Social Ethics Energizing Democracy. Listen as Charlene’s and Peter’s different perspectives confront and challenge the ascending violence of “the war in heaven,” where Jesus judges the whole world; all who worship other gods, who commit murder, perform magic, or illicit sexual acts are thrown down to be forever tormented in a lake of fire, while those who claim to be God’s faithful are invited to enter the new city of Jerusalem that descends from heaven and reigns in triumph for 1,000 years.

The Book Of Revelation is said to be the strangest, most controversial book in the Bible. Some love it, and some hate it. Some Christians never talk about it; some never stop talking about it. And, some people use it as a predictor of current events, as part of their impetus for violence and fervor for hatred and political gain. Others apply Revelation as evidence of a war between good and evil to almost any situation. Elaine Pagels, Harrington Spear Paine Professor of Religion at Princeton University, refers to The Book of Revelation as “war literature.” Pagels explains that John of Patmos, a war refugee, wrote Revelation sixty years after the death of Jesus, and twenty years after 60,000 Roman troops crushed the Jewish rebellion in Judea and destroyed Jerusalem and its Great Temple. Pagels persuasively interprets Revelation as a scathing attack on the decadence of Rome. This FRONT ROW podcast features special guests Charlene Sinclair and Peter Laarman. Dr. Charlene Sinclair is an organizer, thinker, and writer whose work centers on the intersection of race, gender, economy, and democracy. Strongly influenced by the pathbreaking thought of the late James Cone, founder of Black Liberation Theology, Dr. Sinclair is committed to fashioning strategies that embrace a liberationist approach to faith and spirituality in the context of popular struggles for racial, economic, and gender justice. Peter Laarman is a retired United Church of Christ minister and activist who led Judson Memorial Church in New York and Progressive Christians Uniting in California. He is currently involved with the King & Breaking Silence webinar project of the National Council of Elders and with the development of a new formation called Social Ethics Energizing Democracy. Charlene and Peter approach Revelation from very different positions.

Justice-seekers, church leaders, and religious scholars will learn more about how younger generations are perceiving the church, how to support local advocacy and activism, and how the future of Christianity is changing. Marcus Borg’s lectures, drawn from Faith and Reason seminars like “Does Christianity Have a Future?” and “The Heart of Christianity,” provide the perfect foundation for an engaging and thoughtful discussion on these topics. Reverend Janet Cooper Nelson is a University Chaplain and Director of the Office of Chaplains and Religious Life and Faculty Member at Brown University. Janet leads a multi-faith team of associate chaplains and oversees the university’s broad circle of religious life affiliates who advise student religious organizations. Together they ensure that a diversity of belief has voice and vitality throughout the university’s community and that Brown’s largest educational program is infused with opportunity to enrich religious literacy and experience with a practice in religion. Peter Laarman is a United Church of Christ minister who served as senior minister of New York's Judson Memorial Church and then as executive director of LA's Progressive Christians Uniting before retiring in 2014. He remains deeply involved in national and regional social justice projects touching on race, class, and religion. A lifelong activist, Peter focuses on the intersection of religion, race, and class and on how centuries of white supremacy shape the multiple crises we face today.

Religious scholars and church leaders will learn more about how younger generations are perceiving the church, how the gospel may be interpreted by younger church members, and how the future of Christianity is changing. Reverend Janet Cooper Nelson is a University Chaplain and Director of the Office of Chaplains and Religious Life and Faculty Member at Brown University. Janet leads a multi-faith team of associate chaplains and oversees the university’s broad circle of religious life affiliates who advise student religious organizations. Together they ensure that a diversity of belief has voice and vitality throughout the university’s community and that Brown’s largest educational program is infused with opportunity to enrich religious literacy and experience with a practice in religion. Peter Laarman is a United Church of Christ minister who served as senior minister of New York's Judson Memorial Church and then as executive director of LA's Progressive Christians Uniting before retiring in 2014. He remains deeply involved in national and regional social justice projects touching on race, class, and religion. A lifelong activist, Peter focuses on the intersection of religion, race, and class and on how centuries of white supremacy shape the multiple crises we face today.

Church leaders will gain valuable insight into how younger generations are perceiving the church, how gospel and positive church communities are influencing activism, and how to navigate the future of Christianity. Reverend Janet Cooper Nelson is a University Chaplain and Director of the Office of Chaplains and Religious Life and Faculty Member at Brown University. Janet leads a multi-faith team of associate chaplains and oversees the university’s broad circle of religious life affiliates who advise student religious organizations. Together they ensure that a diversity of belief has voice and vitality throughout the university’s community and that Brown’s largest educational program is infused with opportunity to enrich religious literacy and experience with a practice in religion. Peter Laarman is a United Church of Christ minister who served as senior minister of New York's Judson Memorial Church and then as executive director of LA's Progressive Christians Uniting before retiring in 2014. He remains deeply involved in national and regional social justice projects touching on race, class, and religion.

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Listen as John Dominic Crossan dissects the agreements between Jesus’ Infancy Story in Matthew and Luke! In this episode, David and Debo talk to Dr. John Dominic Crossan about “The First Christmas,” the book by Crossan and the late Marcus Borg. Although our traditional nativity crib scene has the Shepherds and the Magi there together, each actually belongs to a different story. The Magi are from Matthew alone and the Shepherds from Luke alone. That difference draws attention to the fact that the two stories of Jesus’s Infancy are rather completely different in mood and content. Despite being divergent parabolic overtures to two different Gospels, Matthew and Luke agree on the Virginal conception and Bethlehem birthplace of Jesus. As common data, are those claims historical facts or theological interpretations? What is the meaning and intention of each claim in its original context?

Listen as John Dominic Crossan explores Luke's infancy story of Jesus’ birth. In this episode, David and Debo talk to Crossan about “The First Christmas,” the book by Crossan and the late Marcus Borg. In Luke’s nativity story, why does Luke choose to have Mary give birth to Jesus in such a humble setting as a stable? Crossan breaks down Luke’s gospel. Luke tells the story of the shepherds in the field. Luke is more interested in Jesus as the healer, a person directly helping the poor, and interested in compassion, mercy, and healing. This Jesus story stresses the very humble beginnings of life. Crossan talks about the infancy story of Luke as parabolic overture to that gospel. Imagine Luke 3-24 as the finished Gospel according to Luke and the author starting to compose its parabolic overture. How was that overture necessarily and inevitably determined by the vision of the completed Gospel?

Listen as John Dominic Crossan dives deep into Matthew’s infancy story of Jesus’ birth! In this episode, David and Debo talk to Crossan about “The First Christmas,” the book by Crossan and the late Marcus Borg. Crossan breaks down Matthew’s Gospel. Matthew tells the story of Herod and the wise men, as well as the genealogy of Jesus. Mary and Joseph flee from Herod because he wants to kill first born babies. Matthew, interested in placing Jesus directly in the Davidic royal bloodline, makes his intention plain: he wants to restore Israel to its former prominence. Wise men come from far east to find Jesus–to bow at his feet and recognize him as their promised king. Crossan talks about the infancy story of Matthew as parabolic overture to that Gospel. Imagine Matthew 3-28 as the finished Gospel according to Matthew and the author starting to compose its parabolic overture. How was that overture necessarily and inevitably determined by the vision of the completed Gospel?

Kick off Advent with John Dominic Crossan! In this episode, David and Debo talk to Crossan about “The First Christmas,” the book by Crossan and the late Marcus Borg. In this episode, Crossan breaks down what he means by a parabolic overture, and points to some main differences in the Matthew and Luke gospels. Although our traditional nativity crib scene has the Shepherds and the Magi there together, each actually belongs to a different story. The Magi are from Matthew alone and the Shepherds from Luke alone. That difference draws attention to the fact that the two stories of Jesus’s Infancy are rather completely different in mood and content. Crossan also notes the importance of respecting the intention of the author at hand. Once you understand the intention, ask yourself: Is this still valid for me today, or is it simply understandable in the 21st century but outdated? Are there any patterns or themes taken from these parables that can apply to events happening now?

Debo and Catherine Young sit down with Dr. Kristin Black to talk about the realities of black Americans' access to healthcare. There’s a widespread misconception that faith is not interested in fact and scientific research. Faith is always concerned with reality and truth. For faith to be active, faith has to know what the facts are. Science explores the natural world that God created. October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Breast cancer is the second leading cause of cancer death in women, and black women are significantly more likely to be diagnosed at a more advanced stage. Dr. Black talks about implicit bias in the healthcare system, as well as how the church plays a role in advocating for black women as it relates to breast cancer awareness. Dr. Black is an assistant professor in the department of health education and promotion at East Carolina University. She received her Masters of Public Health in 2011 and her PhD in 2016 in maternal and child health from UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health. She is a member of the Greensboro Health Disparities Collaborative, board member of the Sister’s Network of Greensboro, NC, and board member of the Society for the Analysis of African American Public Health Issues. She is also the lead author in a chapter of Racism: Science & Tools for the Public Health Professional, available on the American Public Health Association website.

In honor of Suicide Prevention Month, Debo and David sit down with Reverend Dr. Jason Coker to talk about mental health. Dr. Coker recently released a new book, Faded Flowers: Preaching in the Aftermath of Suicide, about suicide and responding to pain as a church and as individuals. People deal with loss and pain in different ways, and Dr. Coker describes his own experience preaching in the aftermath of suicide. The rate of depression is much larger in youth and minorities than a lot of people realize. In the south, the layers of poverty and racism are very deep. Children that grow up in these spaces of pressure create many stories of resilience and strength, but at the same time it can also be difficult, especially with the added intensity of a pandemic, poverty, and systemic racism. If you or a loved one is struggling with mental health and suicide, call the Suicide Prevention hotline at 1-800-273-8255 or visit https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org for more information and resources. There is no shame in seeking help. Dr. Coker is the coordinator of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship of Mississippi and the National Director of Together for Hope. He is also the founder of Delta Hands for Hope, an award winning nonprofit that provides meals around Mississippi in an effort to combat hunger, poverty, and injustice. Dr. Coker received a masters of divinity from Yale Divinity School and a PhD from Drew University. Faded Flowers: Preaching in the Aftermath of Suicide is available on Amazon.

David, Debo, and Catherine Young talk with Rev. Peter Laarman about structural racism in America and how that racism plays into religion. Biblical tradition describes two very different Gods: a jealous God and a God of boundless love and kindness. Over the last 50 years, white American Christianity has been further degraded by the idea that God prospers people individually -- that it’s a transactional kind of religion. If you’re already at the point where you think of some human beings as less than, then you can easily find a way to make your God also think of some people as less than. This idea utterly contradicts the idea that God is supremely loving. You can’t have a God who consigns people to damnation on a count no fault of their own and a God who calls us by name. Peter Laarman is a United Church of Christ minister who served as senior minister of New York's Judson Memorial Church and then as executive director of LA's Progressive Christians Uniting before retiring in 2014. He remains deeply involved in national and regional social justice projects touching on race, class, and religion.

Debo and Catherine Young sit down with Dr. Stephen Farrow, Executive Director of the National Diabetes and Obesity Research Institute of Mississippi (NDORI), to discuss health as a justice issue and how social factors like income and education impact health. Mississippi has the highest rate of obesity and childhood obesity in the United States, and 1 out of 3 people in Mississippi are considered obese. When thinking about health and obesity, one must also consider how racial bias and structural racism play into health and economy. Access to healthcare, education level, economic achievement and quality of life in the workplace all affect health and diabetes. Before moving to Mississippi, Dr. Farrow lived in Detroit. He moved to Mississippi the week before Hurricane Katrina hit. From that moment, he knew he wanted to stay in Mississippi to help rebuild the state and make a visible positive impact. The more education we can provide throughout the state, and the sooner we can provide solutions, that gives people more flexibility in the way they use resources and their understanding of healthy things they can do. Dr. Farrow is the executive director of the National Diabetes and Obesity Research Institute of Mississippi. He completed medical school, internal medicine residency, and an endocrinology fellowship at the Wayne State University School of Medicine. He also completed an internship at University of Michigan, as well as an endocrinology clinical and research elective at the National Institutes of Health. He earned an executive masters degree in U.S. and International Business Administration from Vanderbilt University’s Owen School of Management. He’s affiliated with the Veteran Affairs of Gulf Coast Veterans Health Care System and Chief Medical Services.

For the fifth episode of Faith & Reason’s Born Black series, Debo and Catherine Young chat with Dr. Corey Wiggins, the Executive Director of the NAACP Mississippi State Conference. Dr. Wiggins goes into detail about growing up and figuring out what he wanted to do with his life, as well as how all that led to his position at the NAACP. They touch on the importance of the vote to remove confederate emblems from the Mississippi state flag, and how that vote was followed with debates about issues like funding for public schools and universities. Since Mississippi has voted to remove the flag, the policies and decisions that have come after are reflective of the same ideals that the previous flag stood for. We must change the hearts and minds of our community and leadership in order to make real change happen. So, what happens next? What does change look like, and what can we do? Originally from Hazlehurst, Mississippi, Dr. Wiggins has a Bachelor of Science from Alcorn State University, and a Masters of Science of Public Health with an emphasis in Health Policy and a PhD in Health Promotion from the University of Alabama Birmingham.

In the fourth episode of the Born Black Faith & Reason series, Debo and Catherine Young chat with Normella Walker, Director of the Office of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Brigham Health hospital. Walker talks about diversity in the workplace, as well as the importance of organizations’ roles in civic responsibility and social justice issues. If we’re going to see change, we need to have leaders in place who value diversity and who will work to create change. How does white privilege apply to organizations when we talk about diversity and inclusion? They discuss how the movement for change has taken to social media and amplified the voices of many people, especially the younger generation, who yearn for change, as well as how to keep the dialogue and energy for progress going. Walker explores the care of black patients in hospitals and how organizations can work to make people of color, both employees and customers, feel more included by having things like leadership development training sessions and inclusion and equity teams in-house. Walker has actively managed, facilitated, and advised diverse groups for over 20 years. She has a BA in organizational performance and leadership and a MA in psychology with a specialization in diversity management, and has completed diversity coursework at the Cornell University School of International Labor Relations.