The Camino Podcast

Well before the Camino Francés was considered safe to walk, there was the Camino Primitivo, linking Oviedo--the center of a small, Christian enclave that was holding out in the northwest corner of the Iberian peninsula--with Santiago de Compostela and the recently rediscovered relics of St. James. In this four-part series, we will virtually walk the Primitivo together, bringing together experienced pilgrims and relevant experts in each episode. Part 2 focuses on a shorter section of the Primitivo, just 41 kilometers between Tineo and Berducedo, but it includes the most famous and talked about walk--the famous Ruta de los Hospitales. Lainey Silver and Shawn Forno (www.dayswespend.com) share stories from some soggy--and yet still exhilarating--walking in this section, including Spanish soap operas and an innovative use of socks. They are followed by David Guardado, author of Asturias: Nunca Vencida, who speaks to some of the defining aspects of Asturian identity and language.

Well before the Camino Francés was considered safe to walk, there was the Camino Primitivo, linking Oviedo--the center of a small, Christian enclave that was holding out in the northwest corner of the Iberian peninsula--with Santiago de Compostela and the recently rediscovered relics of St. James. In this four-part series, we will virtually walk the Primitivo together, bringing together experienced pilgrims and relevant experts in each episode. Part 1 focuses on the first three stages, between Oviedo and Tineo, covering roughly 70 kilometers. Nadine Karel (www.nadinewalks.com), a two-time Primitivo veteran, offers insights on the route, while Allison Bixby-Bemus discusses her experience taking over as co-owner of the legendary Albergue de Peregrinos in Bodenaya. Finally, Anthony Hemingway discusses one of the most noteworthy features of the region--the pre-Romanesque churches distinctive of Asturian Architecture, including several that are clustered in Oviedo.

If you have walked the Camino, you've encountered donkeys. Sometimes they're looming on a field's far end, watching the world go by, a presence immediately recognizable even from a hundred meters. Sometimes, they're pressed against the barbed wire fence, curious and eager for engagement. And very, very occasionally, you'll see a pilgrim walking with a donkey. This episode features an interview with one such pilgrim, Barbara from Poitiers, France, on her journeys with Dalie on the Camino del Norte and other routes. She is followed by Mark Meyers, the Executive Director of Peaceful Valley Donkey Rescue (www.donkeyrescue.org), who explains the donkey's many virtues, the valuable roles donkeys can still play in 2024, and the reasons they are in need of rescue today.

Over the last few years, there has been an exciting development, wherein the Santiago archdiocese has collaborated with other routes outside of Spain to offer official "alternative" starting points for the Camino de Santiago, allowing pilgrims to begin their journey closer to home, earn some kilometers towards the 100km requirement, and then pick up the trail in Spain. This episode focuses on three such routes. In the United States, El Camino de San Antonio Missions (caminosanantonio.org) in Texas offers a 30km, established pilgrimage route linking the four historic mission churches and San Antonio's cathedral, while the still-in-progress Camino de la Unidad in Florida currently hosts an annual Baby Steps Camino (www.babystepscamino.com) between Jacksonville Beach and Saint Augustine. Meanwhile, in England, Saint James' Way (britishpilgrimage.org/portfolio/st-james-way/) links Reading and Southampton, and offers a natural starting point for the Camino Inglés, from Coruña onward.

If you want to know what's happening on the Camino, ask a group or forum moderator. Those tireless, kind-hearted shepherds of Camino discourse perform one of the most thankless tasks of the online world, helping to ensure that new pilgrims can hit the Camino with confidence, and that experienced pilgrims can have a place to connect with a shared community. This episode features two prolific moderators--Laurie/peregrina2000 on Ivar's Camino Forum and Paul Garland on the Camino de Santiago All Routes Facebook group--to look back on major developments and overblown issues on the Camino in 2023. We discuss the general state of pilgrimage discourse, the pushback of some albergues against luggage shipment, the perceived overcrowding crisis in May, the local unhappiness with tourist crowds in Santiago de Compostela, and the recent controversy surrounding the Cruz de Ferro, along with a bunch of other stuff. Along the way, we confirm some concerns, brush away others, and even arrive at some positive developments worth celebrating.

Beyond Jerusalem, Rome, and Santiago de Compostela, Canterbury stands out as perhaps the most significant pilgrimage destination for Christians in the Middle Ages. While Chaucer famously commemorated the route from London in the Canterbury Tales, pilgrims of course traveled from their homes, following a network of different trails. For centuries, one of those was lost to history, until the Old Way, paralleling the coast from Southampton eastward, was rediscovered on a medieval map. Since then, the pilgrimage has been redeveloped, and this episode explores the route with two recent pilgrims. Gail Simmons (travelscribe.org) walked the Old Way during the pandemic, and then documented her experience in vivid detail in her book, Between the Chalk and the Sea. Carol Donaldson (caroldonaldsonwriter.co.uk) took to the trail in post-COVID England, writing about her section walk in the Guardian.

79 rounds of chemotherapy. 4 radical surgeries. 60% of her liver, ten inches of her colon, 2 inches of her stomach, her right lung, and part of her throat--all gone. And yet, however one measures it, Edie Littlefield Sundby (www.themissionwalker.com), author of The Mission Walker, is a living miracle. After being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in 2007 and told that she had months to live, Edie took to walking first as a means of survival and later as an act of joy and thanksgiving. In time, this led her to the California Mission Trail, for a journey that spanned 1600 miles across the full length of the old Spanish missions in both Alta and Baja California. In this episode, Edie describes her journey of healing, her love of walking, and her latest pilgrimage following the Old Spanish Trail through the southern US.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this tenth and final episode in the series, we finally make it to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port, thanks to the combined wisdom of four experienced pilgrims. Robert Deming of Fredericksburg, Texas leads us onward from Aire-sur-l'Adour to Navarrenx, and then three high schoolers from Portland, Oregon pick up the baton from there. After completing the journey to Saint-Jean and discussing the suitability of different endpoints for the Via Podiensis, we then cap the series with a "draft" of favorite places along the way. Spoiler alert: the Lot and Célé Valleys do very, very well.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this ninth episode in the series, the Pyrenees are finally breaking the horizon as we continue southward from Condom to Aire-sur-l'Adour. Kevin Greenstreet shares tales from the road, including a visit to the tiniest fortified village in Gers, a lunch he couldn't pass up in Nogaro, and one of the most memorable gites of the whole walk. And since Roman ruins feature prominently in this section--most notably in Éauze and Séviac--Dr. Simon Esmonde Cleary, Emeritus Professor of Roman Archaeology at the University of Birmingham, joins to offer insights into Roman Gaul and lessons learned from an excavation at Éauze.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this eighth episode in the series, we carry on southward from Moissac with pilgrims Dennis and Laurie Brooke of Tacoma, Washington (www.worldrovers.com), following the canal towards Auvillar, slaloming through the hills to Lectoure, greeting the cats in La Romieu, and finally posing for photos at the entrance to Condom. Many pilgrims in this stretch will find their culinary journeys leading them towards duck, which features prominently on the menus in the region. Dr. Jean Lavigne, Professor of Environmental Studies at the College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University, then shares insights into its prominent role in French cuisine, and the ongoing controversies surrounding foie gras production.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this seventh episode in the series, we finally leave Cahors in the rearview mirror and cross the halfway point en route from Le Puy to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. France Fehr, author of On Foot in France: An Unforgettable Adventure on the Camino de Santiago, shares stories from the walk between Cahors and Moissac, a region that also carries scars from the Albigensian Crusade in the early 13th century. Dr. Mark Gregory Pegg, author of A Most Holy War: The Albigensian Crusade and the Battle for Christendom, then explains why everything you think you know about the Cathars is wrong.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this sixth episode in the series, we make our third and final walk between Figeac and Cahors, this time following the GR651 through the Célé Valley. The route is much beloved by walkers and pilgrims, featuring dramatic cliffs, troglodyte villages, medieval fortifications, and prehistoric cave paintings. Kerri Daniels of Sacramento, California, USA offers insights from her two past forays on the route, and then Maureen Cashman (www.maureencashman.com), author of Charlie & Me in Val-Paradis: How My Dog Learned to Bark in French, shares stories from her three years spent living in Espagnac-Sainte-Eulalie.

Dr. Nancy Louise Frey was looking for a topic for her doctoral research when she stumbled into Santiago de Compostela around Saint James Day and discovered a very different sort of pilgrimage than she had previously considered. This set in motion a complicated and extensive process of field work, and ultimately culminated in one of the essential Camino books, Pilgrim Stories: On and Off the Road to Santiago, Journeys Along an Ancient Way in Modern Spain. Since then, Nancy has remained deeply connected to the Camino, living in Galicia, studying the impact of digital technologies on pilgrimage (www.walkingtopresence.com), and leading group pilgrimages (www.onfootinspain.com/tours). This episode explores each of those subjects: Nancy's reflections on the Camino in the 1990s, the risks of smartphones and other technologies on the pilgrimage experience and practical advice for managing that, and the ways that a group pilgrimage can be enriching and rewarding.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this fifth episode in the series, we find ourselves back in Figeac, for the second of three route options leading pilgrims onward to Cahors, the Rocamadour route. And as the name implies, this variant features one of France's most famous and spectacular pilgrimage shrines, clinging to a cliff overlooking the Alzou Gorge. Prolific pilgrims Sean Morton and Sonya Richmond of Ontario, Canada (comewalkwithus.online) share their experiences from the route, and are then followed by Dr. Deana Weibel (deanaweibel.space), author of A Sacred Vertigo: Pilgrimage and Tourism in Rocamadour, France, who discusses the sacred site.

Let's re-walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this fourth episode in the series, we arrive at the major decision that pilgrims face on the Via Podiensis: which route to follow from Figeac to Cahors? Bronwen Perry talks us through the default approach for many pilgrims, sticking with the GR65 all the way, strolling through the Causse de Limogne. And while Cahors today is increasingly well known for its wine, the picture was very different 150 years ago, when the future of wine was cast in doubt by a small bug from the United States, phylloxera. Dr. George Gale, author of Dying on the Vine: How Phylloxera Transformed Wine, tells the tale of how this threat was overcome through international collaboration, but also why we can never grow complacent.

Imagine that it is your dream to run an albergue, and then that opportunity comes knocking in the middle of COVID. Do you make the leap? And then imagine that you dive in headfirst, alive with all of the dreams and possibilities of what will be. Even as the pandemic ebbs, though, your reopening is first delayed by family obligations, and then thwarted entirely by necessary repair work. Two years in, your albergue has been closed more than it has been open. This is the story of Giulia Sottanis, the hospitalera at Albergue Izarra in Caborredondo, Spain on the Camino del Norte. This is also the story of the central importance of donativo-based albergues, though, and the philosophy and people behind them.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In the third part of this series, we journey today from the Lot River to the Célé River, and from the village of Estaing to the town of Figeac. Bennett Voyles, the author of Onward, Backward! -or- A Ramble to Santiago, joins to help guide us through this section, while offering stories from his family's walk and his own research on the route. He is followed by two historians who share their expertise on two important stops in this section. First, Dr. Patrick Geary, author of Furta Sacra, discusses the theft of relics in the Middle Ages, and the specific legend of Saint Foy's translation to Conques, one of the major highlights on the Via Podiensis. By contrast, the town of Decazeville, which sits further on in this section, is viewed by many walkers as a place worth bypassing. Dr. Donald Reid, author of The Miners of Decazeville, describes the history of this influential town, and the reasons that pilgrims should give it a closer look.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this second episode in the series, Melinda Lusmore of I Love Walking in France (www.ilovewalkinginfrance.com) joins to discuss 80 fabulous kilometers of the chemin, linking Aumont-Aubrac and Estaing. While the scenery is stunning, and the villages are charming, the real stars of this section are the Aubrac cattle that grace the fields along the way. In service to that, Michelle Crawford of Bedias Creek Farms (www.bediascreekfarms.com), a rancher who specializes in the Aubrac breed, shares insights from her close work with these bovine beauties.

The Camino that we see and experience today didn't just happen. It reemerged in the second half of the 20th century gradually and then suddenly, through the concerted efforts of devoted visionaries and caretakers like O Cebreiro's Elías Valiña Sampedro. We pilgrims from the English-speaking world are only privy to glimpses of that history, but Laurie Dennett's new book, Waybread: Memories of the Camino for the Onward Journey, is invaluable for filling in some of the gaps. She was there in O Cebreiro with Don Elías. She was there in Rabanal del Camino as the Confraternity turned a ruin into a pilgrim refuge. Time and time again, Laurie was there to witness key moments and people in the Camino's resurgence, and she pulls back the curtain on those events in this episode.

Let's walk the Via Podiensis together! Whereas many of the pilgrim interviews on the podcast take a thematic approach, focusing on a few big picture issues, this series of episodes will dig more into the specifics of walking. In this first episode in a new series, Chloe Rose Stuart-Ulin of www.solocamino.com joins to discuss getting started on the pilgrimage from Le Puy-en-Velay, walking through the first four stages to Aumont-Aubrac. After that, Louise Marshall, an art historian from the University of Sydney, shares insights into Saint Roch, a key figure on the French branches of the Camino who is often confused with James.