For Better Or Best Podcast

Shireen and "Bespoke Beloved" kick off the episode recalling what it felt like receiving the news that Charles was being laid off and the friendship assessments that took place. He explains that 90% of his close friends were there to support him in new endeavors but that 10% that he felt he had invested so much into, didn't show up as he'd expected. Reciprocity was different. Joined by their good friend and psychotherapist Brittany Richardson, the couple asks what factors cause 10+ year friendships to fall apart. Brittany reminds them that social media plays a different role in your 20's vs your 30's. Career goals and lifestyle choices like marriage/partnership and children have major impacts on friendships (2:12-10:40). Charles claims to be very introspective, reflecting on where he might've fallen short or dropped the ball in friendships. Shireen points out the intentionality of friends who also have very busy lives and the value of communcating their needs directly. How do we meet our friends where they're at? Charles asks if there's room for friendship therapy and Brittany says its possible to work on it as long as there is a common goal. Shireen believes it different from marriage, brings in financial ties, children etc. The investment and attachment is different. Eventhough you're being asked to change in a friendship, family/kids/business may be prioritized over friends(10:50-18:02). Brittany explains that opting in/out feels finite in partnership but the unspoken rule is that friendship is supposed to withstand all things. Maybe friendship doesn't look the same anymore but sitting in the feeling of change is harder than just abandoning the connection. How do we give people grace, knowing its not me, its them? Boundaries has become an overused buzzword, but they're still important. Charles wishes he was more mature and more healed. He says he matches energy; if you fall back, he falls back and goes where he's celebrated. Boundaries are the cliff, and then there's a preference, which is less tit for tat and more about case by case situation. What are the signals that its time to let the friendship go? Brittany says, share how you're feeling and express what a solution would look like for you; give it a fair shot. If they're not reciprocating or flat out disregard it, leave it where it is. Decide how much you can take(19:12-28:02). Top 3 things to make friendships last: listening/communication, mutual respect, loyalty/love. To live a long and healthy life, you need community. That means sharing joy and sorrows. Some friends only share joy when they feel inadequate. Brittany emphasizes that we are everyone's best judge and our own best attorney. Pay it forward in love and don't treat the rainy days with so much shame. There are people rooting for you! If you'd like to connect with guest therapist Brittany Richardson please follow @venttherapy on IG and visit venttherapy.com

The first official guest on FBOB is none other than our very own EP, Bridget Kelly! While discussing how Charles and Shireen's paths crossed w/BK, Charles poses the question, 'do you know who you are'? They started out as fans of the music and now that they're friends, wanted to dive a little deeper into BK's origin story. Growing up in NYC, music wasn't her only love. She wanted to be a marine biologist! With the encouragement of her parents, BK went from singing in the choir to open mics and then the Subway. Charles asks about getting signed and the process behind trying to get a deal. BK shares the first time she met JayZ and what her experience was like entering the music industry. Like most artists, she didn't realize how much went into creating a career in music aside from just singing and songwriting. BK goes into detail about how 'Special Delivery' came about, debuting it at her first Essence Fest. She shared how touring and visiting radio stations was necessary to promote the music. She tells stories about some of the big names she's proud to have collaborated with along the way. Career pivots from tv to podcasting wasn't easy, and the pandemic forced the changes that BK had prayed for. Throughout her 15 year career, BK divulges things she wishes she knew and things she might've done differently. Charles and Shireen remind BK of who she is to them, a friend but also a talent with so much more to create and share. Bringing things to present day, BK shares her love story, how she met her fiancee and what the future holds. Its a blessing to have friends who believe in you and pour into you the way Charles and Shireen pour into Bridget. Everyone needs someone to remind them who they are!

Byke like they never left! Charles and Shireen return for season 2 after an exciting year, full of wonderful changes. They start with a thank you to the audience (both real friends and fans of the show) for pressing them about returning to the mics. Charles then brings us up to speed on his professional adjustments. Having been no stranger to layoffs in the tech space, he was shocked but still at peace when his news came mid-vacation. He didn't want to hide it, despite his ego being slightly bruised, and reminds listeners to have their own IP because corporate can let you go at any time (5:15-10:02). After Essence Fest, Charles began talks with Blavity about a possible acquisition of R&B HouseParty. Charles explains acquisition preparedness and his due diligence checklist, now having the time to devote to his passion project (12:30-19:52). Charles' new position at Blavity is the GM of community. Morgan DeBaun(CEO of Blavity) understood how much of an asset Charles is and saw the vision he had for his role. A music festival has always been a dream of his, and this summer its finally coming to fruition. While Charles was planting new creative seeds, Shireen was planning Carter's 1st birthday party and simultneously being scammed out of tens of thousands, trying to build a pool! They were told that contractors everywhere were shady and it turned out someone else they knew was also scammed by the same one(21:46-27:02). Over the course of several months, the pool nightmare continued. Shireen took over communication and eventually had to pull up on the guy becuase what should've cost $40k ended up costing close to $60k! What's the number you would lose your mind for? What amount of money could you let go? All is well that ends well, since lessons can be blessings, however some lessons cost more than others. Needless to say, do your research thoroughly before hiring contractors. And also, the pool really turned out great!

We finally made it to episode 10! Shireen talks about being nervous during the first episode compared to now, and Charles says they're officially podcasters after 10 episodes. Shireen and Charles are both super excited to be at the end of season one, especially just in time for a very busy summer. CJ is about to graduate kindergarten and Carter is about to turn 1 and take his first international trip with their friends. From there they go to Chicago and Essence Fest aka Aunty Fest for some nostalgic R&B vibes. The Freaknik generation are now the Essence Fest demographic(0:22-5:40). Charles and Shireen are celebrating their 7th wedding anniversary by attending the Renaissance tour in Toronto. If you see them outside, say hello! Charles says they're both approachable with the same personalities on and offline. Shireen is looking forward to not being pregnant and enjoying drinks at all their destinations this year, and asked Charles to go dry with her for the 9mo pregnancy term of baby #3(whether with surrogate or without). Charles is ready for a Charlotte(a baby girl). He says he needs to be ready for whatever Shireen and the doctor's plan is, by 2024(5:50-14:12). The couple has seen a lot of conversations online about traveling with kids. They recall a story about a guy complaining loudly about a crying baby. Shireen says don't let your kids stop you from traveling, take them with you and get them used to it. They used to take CJ everywhere because they had no childcare so therefore, no choice. Now they're looking forward to a much needed break for the summer before returning for Season 2. Charles expresses his gratitude for everyone tuning in and also showing up to all his R&B Houseparties. Shireen works the door and welcomes everyone in. Tito's is sponsoring them this summer so they're all free, make sure you follow @rnbhouseparty on socials for info(15:4-22:07). Interior design has also been a big undertaking for Charles and Shireen. The house is so big that tehy get decision fatigue. Between wallpaer, wall trim and crown molding its all very expensive. Charles wanted to go the cheap route but Shireen shut it down so that they wouldn't stand out in the neighborhood. HGTV is not real life. They've installed a pool, ice maker by the grill and a hot tub spa as well. When they bought the new construction on the plot, there was nothing but a frame and some dirt. It's come a long way. Charles and Shireen admit they don't know how to swim so the pool is really for the kids. Charles does better on a yacht with a captain's hat at the helm. Shireen and Charles are both grateful to everyone who has joined them for these 10 episodes look forward to season 2(23:02-30:03). Feel free to share suggestions, send DMs or leave ideas in the comments, we would love to hear from you and keep expanding the conversations. That's all for now! Til next time, enjoy summer.

Charles and Shireen kick off ep 9 by laughing about the comments and feedback from previous episodes. Charles points out that some of their subscribers believe Shireen has displayed red flags, and that its a topic the two have never discussed before. Charles says that Shireen had some yellow flags early on when they were just friends and he was watching how she moved dating other people. Shireen claims she thought Charles was corny, but admits that NY women think everyone is corny. He eventually got his swag up(1:05-8:00). Shireen was intentionally dating to meet her husband so one of her red flags was a cheap man. She recalls a date she went on with a guy on a Tuesday, and she knew it was a free movie at a random theater. She had to kiss a few frogs before finding her Prince Charming. It was a turn off, and Charles asked if she was being harsh because the cheapness was a red flag. He then says that transparency for men is what can save them from judgment about being frugal. Had the guy expressed that he either didn't have it or was saving for something, Shireen might've had a bit more respect for it. Shireen believes you should make an effort to make a good impression in the beginning, and that being cheap is acceptable if there's a goal. So now Shireen and Charles are coupon lovers and bargain hunters, but its also because they're transparent and share long term plans(11:02-17:40). Despite Charles having a lot going on which was a red flag, he was incredibly honest and open which was a green flag. Charles admits that proposing was a mental hurdle because of the vulnerability that had been established. He trusted Shireen so much from jump since they started out as friends. Shireen had dated enough and watched her friends get played and lied to so she was relieved by how much Charles shared with her. He always gave her a choice. When his ex came back around he was upfront about it and made Shireen feel safe and secure. Both would rather be uncomfortable hearing the truth than not know what is really going on. Their relationship was long distance so it would've been easy to be dishonest but the friendship was too solid. Charles says if they weren't faith-based it would never have worked(18:00-22:50). Being a God-fearing man was a non-negotiable for Shireen, she knew she wanted to raise her kids a certain way. Having kids and ensuring the family liked him was also non-negotiable. Shireen's mother has no filter, so Shireen was hopeful she would love Charles and now she calls him the son she alwyas wanted. Charles wanted to be a father more than anything because of how amazing his father has been to him. He wanted an ambitious woman, someone that would hustle and be just as much of a go getter as he is. Its hard if you're the only one pushing, who pushes the pusher? Charles and Shireen motivate each other and have stepped out on faith successfully on more than one occasion. Cheers to the green flags!(23:12-30:59)

Do you know your partner's love languages? Charles and Shireen deep dive into their different preferences in this episode. Charles states that he'll be keeping his shades on the entire episode, to usher in R&B HouseParty energy. With summer approaching, Charles schedule is getting hectic. Shireen describes how tough it is to manage the house and her big girl job, not to mention keeping up with CJ's social life. Shireen's been watching 'Love Is Blind' and realized that understanding love languages isn't as common as it should be. The assumption is ususlly that mens' main language is physical touch(0:26-5:55). Charles' father gave them the Five Love Languges book when they were in premarital counseling and it opened his eyes to how he approaches his relationship. The pandemic also exposed some things within their marriage. Both Shireen and Charles are triggered when they don't feel seen or appreciated. If Acts of Service is the love language, both the giver and recipient have to be clear that its valuable. For some its gift giving, but if the recipient doesn't care about material things, its pointless. The world gets to see the fun version of Charles, but at home he's a different beast. He believes words of affirmation should be earned (no participation trophies). He only wants to celebrte milestones so they can be grandiose, while Shireen has said her basic needs aren't being met sometimes(6:08-16:07). They're both itentional about the time/energy they give to each other, since many of their trips are work related.(Pause to take the love language test). Shireen's love languages are acts of service, words of affirmation and quality time. For Charles, its acts of service, quality time and receiving gifts. Charles claims to value the small thoughtful things and feels like Shireen rests on him just buying everything he wants for himself. Shireen says its impossible to surprise him or buy him things and that all the little things she does on a daily basis have just become part of the routine(18:45-26:53). Shireen says all she wants is help putting the kids to bed sometimes. Charles treats financial provision as an act of service, how he's been showing up is not enough and he admits that(29:45-36:10). Charles admits that he doesn't make surprising him easy and that they can both improve on how they display their love. Shireen tried to plan a birthday party for him and asked him to hold the weekend and he booked a trip to NY. Now, she says, surprises are done. Friends and children are impacted by expressions of love as well. Charles says as a kid he enjoyed receiving gifts from his mother while his father emphasized quality time. As he got older his mother took him on trips and he realizes now how priceless those memories are, compared to all the gifts he got. Shireen is making it a priority to be more intentional and prioritize the little things to reinforce their love for one another.

The money convo continues in episode 7, as Shireen and Charles show up in matching drip (unplanned, somehow). Both admit that podcasting isn't as easy as it looks, but that they're loving the support and feedback from the audience. Charles is still upset that Shireen kept all her money movements a secret while he was sweating, trying to figure out how they would pay for the wedding. Shireen says once she made it out the mud, she never wants to be poor again. They both have poverty ptsd and its manifested in different ways. Shireen has a spreadsheet that keeps her on track and Charles puts bills on autopay because he was unable to do it until recently(0:52-6:00). Shireen revisits her saving skills and reveals all the ways she was skimming off the top to save a significant amount. She says she can never surprise Charle because he always buys what he wants. While saving for his watch before the wedding, she was frustrated that Charles was blowing through his money while she was saving hers. Charles had started seeing money again and felt free. He would constantly remind Shireen that he was making HIS money and didn't want to be told how to spend it(6:08-13:45). Once Shireen presented Charles with the watch he wanted on their wedding day, the "my money, your money" tone changed. But when R&B HouseParty started to pick up, the MY money monster in Charles returned! Now married, they had to redefine partnership. When buying their first house, Charles had the cash, Shireen had the credit. Moving from Jersey to the Bay was a major adjustment in cost, so they both became frugal. When they moved to LA they shared 1 car so they wouldn't have to pay for an additional parking spot(14:04-26:16). They both had big goals in mind and sacrificed and endured inconvenience to reach them. Charles express his gratitude that he met Shireen because she helped him grow. He became obsessed with looking at/for homes and worked to buy their second hone himself. He knew it wasn't his forever home, Charles wanted bigger, a better kitchen. Shireen says she wasn't ready for a more expensive house, but Charles was adamant about his vision. After seeing a bunch of houses similar to the one they were in, Shireen grew tired of looking. Charles had her look at larger model homes in a gated community and she fell in love with one on an ad sheet. She circled it and wrote "if we win the lottery" underneath the image. Tearing up, Shireen admits she didn't see it coming to pass but God made it happen. Charles says faith without works is dead, and both have worked very hard to get to their dream house. Shireen is tactical and Charles is the dreamer, so they both compliment each other well and thank the other for being loving and strategic. Charles gushes that he has everything he wants in his life; a great wife, healthy kids and dream house. They've come a long way and still have forever to go(27:50-38:43).

Charles starts off admitting he didn't know the lyrics to 'Poison' by Bel Biv Devoe until he met Shireen, and now it plays at R&B HouseParty. The couple is prepping/planning around each other's schedules, since summer is on the way and now Charles' mother has moved out and their in-house childcare is no more! Shireen is back in the thick of work, with Carter now in daycare and Charles announces The Bridge Tour for R&B HouseParty, a series of free parties(0:34-4:15). Its tax refund season, so its time to talk money. Shireen notes that she's always known how to manage money. When they met, she lived at home and knew how to budget/save. They worked together so she knew how much Charles made. Charles had a different philosophy, living paycheck to paycheck. For Charles, establishing credit was a secretive thing, no one discussed it. He didn't know his mother ever hustled or struggled until he was in junior high. His brother went to prom and he had custom everything. When it was Charles' turn, his mother didn't have it. Having no money made Charles work extra hard(5:30-12:09). Charles took a job in finance because it was high paying, but was still paying the minimum on credit cards while Shireen was paying off her cards every month to establish good credit. She wasn't forthcoming in the beginning, about how much money she had. She took out a loan for grad school and didn't feel obligated to rescue Charles financially when he lost his job(12:20-18:17). Charles recalls the story told on 'Black Love' about Shireen helping keep his ego in tact while he wasn't making a ton of money. Shireen says she was willing to invest in him because she felt he would've done the same for her, that he was generous even with the little bit he did have. That thoughtfulness let her know who Charles would be with money. On her 25th birthday he used his whole unemployment check to fly out to her and take her to dinner. But then Charles would make dinner/happy hour plans and invite her, knowing that she would have to be the one to pay. Shireen would ask how it was being covered and Charles felt like it was rude. Little did she know, he was being intentional with his money(18:46-24:18). Charles was saving for an engagement ring. It was the first time he ever exercised self control. Shireen recalls Charles being a terrible recruitment candidate because he didn't prioritize the job. He had taken a lower paying job because he enjoyed it, but knew he wanted to change his approach with money once he proposed. Charles says he resented when he would visit Shireen in ATL, go to Zaxby's and she would have an attitude about paying $7 for his meal(she didnt know he was proposing soon) because who doesn't have $7?(25:55-30:30). When Charles proposed to Shireen he had bottle girl sparklers bring him out. Shireen was overwhelmed, looked at ring like wait, where did this money come from? She loves her ring but it hasn't fit since she had Carter. Charles says he never wanted to upgrade the ring because of the sentimental value. Shireen mentions that she was still hiding money when they got engaged because now she was saving to buy him the watch he really wanted. They knew they were getting ready to pay for a wedding and then buy a house. Charles was panicked when Shireen offered to quit her job so she could move in with him and was pissed when he realized she had 30k saved. Marriage later increased the pressure...more on that next episode!(31:18-35:37)

Patience is a virtue! Charles and Shireen kick off episode 5 talking about delayed gratification. Charles has been curating events celebrating community and women, but none of it has been on his time. Shireen said this is a season of tests for Charles, she believes God wants to see how Charles will do trusting other people to take the lead(0:42-2:45). Theres other sides to Charles aside from the fun-loving life of the party persona. He used to treat his now-flourishing businesses as hobbies and side hustles. He has a great business mind and a creative one, he just had to learn how to apply strategies to both. He wasn't always this organized and focused, but Charles' older brother was his idol, so he pushed himself to secure a college scholarship(3:20-7:15). Charles' first R&B Houseparty was at his frat house. He was discovering new passions but had to put them on the back burner so he could develop a new skill set at his finance operations job. He later realized how crucial those skills would be in his own business building. Shireen helped him land a recruiter job but Charles was horrible at it. He worked so hard and felt like he was learning but couldn't execute properly. They actually got married on the same date that Charles got let go from that job, because he wanted to turn that negative into a positive. His only regret was calling out after he made a mistake, saying if he had gotten in front of it, he could've had more time to prep for the job he really wanted(9:05-13:20). Shireen saw Charles lose steam and ambition, facing rejection after rejection. Shireen handled all his job applications during that year. Charles says he spoils her now for how she held him down in the trenches. Charles' brother reminded him that if he had a passion, the money would come(easy for someone with money to say!). Charles took a recruiting job with less salary but he loved it. Ambition returned when the passion was nurtutred(14:02-19:05). Charles honed in on the skills he learned from finance and runs a tight ship. Now Shireen says he's a bit OCD and she's figuring out how to be supportive. Charles claims that Shireen is his soundboard and he's not as powerful without her. There are a bunch of conversations between them before Charles pitches anything. He spends a lot of time micromanaging and has a tough time with disappointment. He's been able to plan the last 4years of his life, getting comfortable with uncomfortable conversations at work. While working at Facebook/Meta, he learned to appreciate feedback(19:35-24:11). Shireen says she approaches feedback with radical candor and empathy by focusing on the issue, not criticism of the person. The pandemic softened Charles professionally and made him more empathetic. They both work in tech and know how fickle that industry is, so they lead with empathy and stay prayerful. The skill building jobs that required patience, are what helped them have successful businesses. Every job set them up for the next. Shireen believes you can pitch yourself while still figuring yourself out. Charles says shooters shoot and advises not to fear hearing "no's". Lean in and stay the course, manifestation is real(24:53-33:10).

Focusing on yourself is tough to do with a spouse and kids, but this week the Kuykendolls unpack what that means for them. Shireen and Charles discuss whats coming up on their schedules; bachelorette and influencer trips, mixing work/play. Before the kids, Shireen was active and outside! So much so that Charles was known as "Shireen's boyfriend"(0:20-4:16). Shireen and Charles' relationship was long distance for 3 years, so balancing time with each other and friends was tough. They both respect each other's friendships because they were friends first. Being a host/event curator, Charles has a ton of platonic female friends. "Everyone gets 'beloved', and I get Charles" - Shireen. She has never told him he can't hang out with anyone. Charles makes sure Shireen is included in the friendship building so that she's more comfortable (7:30-12:30). Their marriage is reinforced by consistency and trust. Both have become great at nurturing their individual friendships and the ones closest to them are ingrained in the marriage. Charles is proud of his family, so no one could ever be close to him and not be close to Shireen, and vice versa (13:10-18:00). There was a guy in Chicago at an event Charles was hosting, that bought Shireen a drink. Charles says its ok to socialize without throwing your wedding band in someone's face. Shireen let him know she was married and he clarified he was interested in attending Charles' next event so they exchanged info. When he started texting her about random things and not the ticket link, Shireen stopped responding and shared what was going on with Charles. They both believe in friendships with the opposite sex, so transparency has never been an issue. Charles made a joke about the guy, calling him 'entanglement bae'. Most couples aren't mature or hnest enough to have these types of convos (18:30-25:00). Because they're so close, neither wants to be outside without the other. LA is a social scene, Shireen tries to avoid if it isn't their core friend group. They discuss a curfew, and how its different in each city (LA closes at 2am, NYC at 4am). Charles is a light sleeper and can't fully fall asleep until Shireen gets home. When Charles is out in LA, a 2:30 text is requested so Shireen doesn't jump to worst case scenario. When you're Black in America and don't come home when expected, its scary. To minimize confusion and prioritize safety, they share locations with each other(28:50-37:20). When it comes to individual friends vs mutual friends, its touchy. Shireen knows that friends always will pick their partner over their friends, so they try to stand in solidarity. Shireen knows that he has friends whose loyalty will always be to Charles and she's ok with that. Sharing friends on the west coast didn't feel good to Shireen at first because they would treat her differently. Shireen talks about how intenional Bridget was about being her friend and affirmed that it was ok to develop friendships separate from Charles. They've figured out what works for them, its trial and error, but keep the peace in your home first(39:00-48:48). Nurture the relationships that support and uplift you and your partner.

Episode 3 is heavy! The couple share that weight is a sensitive subject, both have fluctuated in size over the past 11 years. Charles is back in the gym and encourages Shireen to keep up, despite prefering her more full bodied than skinny (1:55-3:58). Charles has a goal weight in mind, but he's gone beyond that number. He was born big, struggled with weight his whole life. Everyone called Charles big boned, in church it was normalized to be husky and since he could cook and saw it as a chance for fellowship or a celebratory occasion, food became a crutch. A girl in 3rd grade told him she would date him if he lost weight and it stuck with him (6:02-9:58). Charles admits to having an obsessive personality and has avoided the work in fitness. He posts everything about his life on social media except his workouts in case he falls off. Shireen acknowledges his latest efforts, which include dragging her to the gym, sometimes while pushing the stroller (11:27-15:00). Shireen shares that she is 40lbs from where she used to be and wants to be. Charles motivates/encourages her by reminding her how attractive she was to him while pregnant. Charles and Shireen confess to enabling each other with food. Charles is a dessert person, goes to Mastros and eats light just so he can enjoy the butter cake (15:02-18:09). Shireen says she carried big during pregnancy (53lbs with CJ, 49lbs with Carter) and her body will never be the same, which is a tough pill to swallow. She wants lipo and a tummy tuck and supports all women to make those choices for their bodies. Shireen expresses the pressure she feels to look a certain way in LA, compared to NY. She sometimes feels looked over or invisible and men have it easy. Many women in LA have had very obvious procedures, Shireen wants hers to be subtle (18:30-23:03). Shireen goes on to say that Black women don't receive the same amount of attention in LA, but it hasn't swayed her confidence. She does however think it would be harder for her if she was single and in the dating pool. Shireen is learning to love her curves, and give herself grace since having the baby. It isn't talked about at length with friends, so she's trying to change that(23:33-26:18). Charles has always been honest with her; if something looks out of place, he knows how to communicate that. Shireen says he is annoying when he gets into fitness, eating 1 salad and being down 3lbs, while she starves and works out to lose half a pound. They'll be watching the progress on camera in each episode to keep each other accountable. Even if your goal isn't to lose weight, everyone should move their body every day(27:05-31:13).

This week, Charles and Shireen dive right in to the latest adjustment in their household; Carter (baby #2) is here and maternity leave/paternity leave are inn full effect! Charles is back in his R&B HouseParty bag now that he's on paternity leave, and Shireen talks about going back to work from home after 5mo with the baby. She says she can get distracted by nursing, taking supplements, and balancing her mental (3:08-4:14). Charles talks about wanting to be the Tom Joyner of our generation, sharing the fun side and the business savvy side. He says having a mini him in CJ felt so perfect, he didn't know it could get even better having 2 (5:20-7:55). They discuss their different takes on timing; Charles wasn't ready for another kid the same time Shireen was, and then was impatient once he got on board, finally conceiving after 9mo (9:34-14:30). Despite having in-house support from Charles' mother Shontina, which Shireen loves, Charles has a hard time being fully comfortable as the man of his house. To the kids, grandma can do no wrong, same dynamic with Charles and his grandmother (16:10-20:10). Charles talks about this difference between 1-2 kids, wants to stay home more, event scheduling is done around family now. CJ is a sweet sensitive child and both parents work to make sure hes always nurtured. They make it a point to designate one on one time with both kids. Charles/CJ time is getting haircuts together (23:02-29:10). Shireen shares that she had baby blues but not full postpartum depression with CJ. She didn't know what she needed and couldn't articulate it. Charles struggled trying to find a solution so just implored that the best thing he could do was just be there to listen. He surprised her with her NY friends for her birthday. Shireen's sacrifice uprooting to the west coast didn't go unnoticed by Charles. From the bay to LA, they prayed constantly. "Your blessing isn't your comfort zone"-Shireen (30:00-38:09). They're happy to know/have more knowledge and support with baby #2, so the prayers are to be richer and richer since childcare is expensive(private school, larger house). The couple advise everyone considering expanding their family to communicate with their partners and families. Consult doctors, ladies talk to other mothers/like minded people. Check on your strong friends and strong parents (42:21-44:00)

In their very first episode, Charles and Shireen introduce themselves to the audience walk them through how long it has taken to conceive this podcast. Since participating in the 'Black Love' TV series and having their second baby last year, life has been life-ing! (1:20-1:45) Shireen admits to getting in her own way and Charles encourages her to step into her main character energy. (2:00-3:45) Shireen shares where the title "For Better Or Best" came from (5:00-6:10). Charles is a bit of a perfectionist, and it shows in his work/family life (7:10-7:45) Both talk a bit about their origin story. They worked together and became friends but weren't romantic for a while(11:30-14:40) They were long distance for most of their pre-marital relationship.(16:00-17:02) Charles also shares his recent vysectomy experience; explaining the process, the thoughts that led to the decision and addressing the stigmas for Black men surrounding their "manhood". Shireen expresses her gratitude and clearly states she doesn't want anymore children after her 2 C-sections and also wants the freedom of not being on birth control anymore. Adoption or surrogacy might be an option but not yet.