Cult Chat

What do you do if someone you love won’t acknowledge the harm that you experienced - the harm they may have caused? How long do you wait, and is there another way to move on? In this third episode Sam and Caz talk about the yearning for acknowledgement and reparation that follows betrayal, especially betrayal as a child. Join this final conversation with Sam and Caz, as they grapple with hurts left behind, relationships that may never be repaired, and their own creative pursuits for justice. Show Notes: Movie: Child of the Commune Webpage: An Open Letter Calling for Restorative Justice for the Children of Centrepoint Community Book: Trauma and Recovery - Judith Herman Podcast: The Children of Osho - Cult Vault Podcast: In My Father’s Footsteps - Indoctrination Podcast: Children of the Guru - Loss of Identity within the Rajneesh Cult - Talk Beliefs

Decades after leaving a cult, what is life like for a child cult survivor? How does she build identity and integrate into the outside world? In this second episode of Caz and Sam Jahara’s intimate conversation, the two discuss these concerns and more. They talk about the resources needed to recover and thrive, the wounds left by neglect and abuse, and the unique challenges those born or raised in a cult must navigate. This vulnerable second part of a three-part conversation is not to be missed. Notes Film: Wild Wild Country on Netflix Article: The psychological impacts on children who grow up in cults by Sam Jahara Book: What Happened to You? Conversations on trauma, and healing by Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey Book: Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman

Caz speaks with UK psychotherapist Sam Jahara about her years as a child living in the communes of the Indian guru Rajneesh in the 1980s. They explore how the Rajneesh movement was so similar in many difficult ways to the Centrepoint Community that Caz was involved with as a child. This is the first episode of a three part interview between two women who explore the long term effects that cults have on the children who live in them. Listen up if you care about the impacts of cults on kids and are interested in accountability and repair.

Join Caz, as she interviews two accidental cult investigators about two notorious NZ cults. The first is Natalie Malcon, producer of “Escaping Utopia” the recent Gloriavale docuseries, and “Heaven & Hell; The Centrepoint Story”. The second is Anke Richter, journalist and author of “Cult Trip”, a deep dive into the complexity of both Gloriavale and Centrepoint. This conversation between three cult activists, each using a different medium to shine light on cult harm, will be eye opening.

Join Liz as she chats with ex-Gloriavale film participant Rosanna Overcomer and film producer Natalie Malcon about the recent Escaping Utopia docuseries. We give you a glimpse “behind the scenes”, into the film’s journey to the screens, set design, casting, meticulous re-enactments, as well as the personal challenge of sharing one's story. We also delve into the ethical dilemmas of filming undercover scenes in India, sparking thought-provoking discussions on filmmaking and media responsibilities.

Have you seen the eye-opening three-part TV docu-series “Escaping Utopia” that hit NZ this past week? Join us for a candid discussion as Caz, Liz, and Lindy share their reflections. Gain insight into the complexities of escaping Gloriavale and the support systems aiding those transitioning to freedom. Listen in as we uncover the resilience and courage of individuals breaking free from a closed community, and see the plight of group of members who are part of an Indian Gloriavale Community which has never featured on our screens before. Show Notes: Documentary: TVNZ On Demand New Zealand: Escaping Utopia: https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/escaping-utopia

Lindy chats again with Tore, president of Cult Information and Family Support Australia. Tore explains some of the supports CIFS offers leavers of cult groups. The two talk about the importance of group support for ex-cultists, why cult leavers need psycho-education about cults, and how critical it is for survivors to talk to someone who understands. Tore explains why therapists need to be trained in the unique impacts of cults in order to deliver therapy which addresses a cult leaver’s needs. Show Notes Website: Cult Information and Family Support Australia Event: Regain & Restore Freedom of Mind - Weekend Workshop with Toire Klevyer - 3-5th May 2024 Article: ABC Life in a cult - how I escaped Audio: ABC The psychological tricks that make cults so dangerous Website: International Cultic Studies Association Book: Steve Hassan’s Combatting Cult Mind Control Website: Gillie Jenkinson Hope Valley Counselling Book: Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse - A Workbook for Recovery and Abuse by Gillie Jenkinson

This week we share a fascinating discussion between Tore Klevjer and Lindy, both passionate advocates for victims of cultic harm, who also each have complementary roles in organizations which support leavers. Tore shares about his experience of being recruited into a group, and how he found his way out ten years later with his family. In this episode the duo discuss regrets, doubts and shame, and how to find a way forward as a family unit - while staying intact - after leaving a cult. Links Website: Cult Information and Family Support Australia

What do a doctor, a lawn enthusiast, and an amateur photographer all have in common? Almost no understanding of the law! Join us for this episode as Caz, Liz and Lindy bumble their way through various international laws on coercive control, and ask themselves - and you, the listener - exactly what it will take for New Zealand law-makers to recognise how harmful group coercive control is, and provide protection for NZ citizens against it within the law. Show Notes Law: 2018 Family Violence Act Law: UK Coercive Control law in intimate partner setting (2015 law) Controlling or coercive behaviour: statutory guidance framework Report: The Family Survival Trust report 2022 Coercive Control in Cultic Groups in the United Kingdom - July 2022 Law: Domestic and Family Violence Protection (Combating Coercive Control) and Other Legislation Amendment Act 2023 - Queensland Law: Crimes Legislation Amendment (Coercive Control) Act 2022 - New South Wales

What does a woman abused by her intimate partner, a member of a cult group, and a prisoner of war in North Korea in the 1950s all have in common? Listen to today’s episode to find out! As you listen you’ll also learn interesting facts about venn diagrams, storm-troopers and the joys of lawn-mowing. Today’s episode features a culty analysis of 1950’s researcher Albert Biderman’s fascinating, yet chilling, “Chart of Coercion”, with tips from our hosts on how to recognise it in action in a cult. Correction: throughout this episode we repeatedly referenced Biderman’s “Chart of Control” - oops! The correct name of the chart is the “Chart of Coercion”. Show Notes Movie: John Ready “You’re buying into someone else’s dream, but they have sold it to you as your dream.” ⁠Gloriavale Film⁠ Website: ⁠NSW Government Oct 2020 discussion paper “Coercive Control”⁠ Book: Wade Mullen ⁠“Something’s Not Right - Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse and Freeing Yourself from its Power⁠ Podcast: ⁠Cult Vault Interview with Evan Stark⁠ Book: Evan Stark ⁠“Coercive Control - How Men Entrap Women in Personal Life”⁠ Book: Jess Hill “⁠See What You Made Me Do⁠” Podcast: ⁠Shincheonji⁠ - Cult Chat E9 Podcast: ⁠Inside the Tribe⁠ series Website: Liz’s reflection ⁠on voting on the Daily Vale⁠ - Oct 23 Podcast:⁠ Setting the record straight on Gloriavale⁠ - Cult Chat E10 Book: Judith Herman “⁠Trauma & Recovery⁠” Book: Margaret Atwood “⁠Handmaid’s Tale⁠”

Join us this week for a chat with Sarah Steel, writer and producer of the acclaimed podcast series “Let’s Talk About Sects”. Listen as our hosts do some serious fan-girling in Sarah’s direction! After 6 seasons of her podcast and a book on the topic Sarah has learnt a thing or two about cult podcasting, she’s got some ideas about how to make things better, and some tips for our hosts on how to navigate the cultiverse. Show Notes Let’s Talk About Sects Podcast Sarah’s bio Heaven & Hell - The Centrepoint Story Woodford Folk Festival episode

Are you heading back from a break at the beach and now need a movie from the cultiverse to get you back into the mood for work? In this third summer series special episode our hosts talk about their favourites 2023 shows from the cultiverse. Lindy, Liz and Caz talk about what makes these shows worthy watches, and why. These shows will shock you, inform you, and open your eyes a lot wider to different harmful groups out there and how far they will go to manipulate, control and coerce. Movies Discussed/ Show Notes The Ashram Children Gloriavale movie Heaven & Hell - The Centrepoint Story Keep Sweet: Pray & Obey Escaping Twin Flames Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets Women Talking Witness Underground

Looking for something from the cultiverse to listen to while driving on your summer roadie? Or perhaps you need help to tune out the kids as you flip the sausages on the barbie? Well, let the Cult Chat trio help! In this episode Lindy, Liz and Caz bring you their favourite 2023 podcasts recommendations to help you deepen your knowledge of the cultiverse - but only after you’ve listened to the fortnightly Cult Chat episode of course!! Show Notes Inside the Tribe - https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/inside-the-tribe/id1533629268 The Commune Podcast - https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2022/the-commune-podcast-centrepoint/ Let’s Talk About Sects - https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/lets-talk-about-sects/id1286328757 Get a Life! Podcast - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVVRXavrboI1XJZ8xdMJZFA A Little Bit Culty https://alittlebitculty.com The Cult Vault https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/the-cult-vault/id1514656568 IndoctriNation Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/indoctrination/id1373939526 Cultish https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/cultish/id1440854210 Cult Hackers https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/cult-hackers/id1540824671

It’s nearly Christmas! Are you looking for a holiday read? Caz, Lindy and Liz have taken a break from mince-pie-making and present-shopping to record an episode all about books! These books are the ones which jumped out as our best books from the cultiverse in 2023. Grab your pen and pad and jot down some of our recommended best reads of the year. You might still have time to get down to your local bookshop to nab one of these to chuck in the Christmas stocking. Show notes Books we discussed: Cult Trip by Anke Richter Do As I Say by Sarah Steele Mission of Malice by Erica Bornman Cult to Christ by Elizabeth Coleman Excommunicated by Craig Hoyle The Serpent Rising by Mary Garden Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer Unfollow by Megan Phelps-Roper Becoming Free Indeed by Jinger Duggar Vuolo Uncultured by Daniella Mestyanek Young Websites we mentioned: Abusive Ashrams with Mary Garden on the Cult Vault Telling the Truth - about the Two By Twos Advocates for the Truth Expressions by ex-2x2s

In this episode, we delve into the crucial topic of Safeguarding Children and share insights on navigating the challenges within high control, cultish groups. Drawing from personal experiences, the hosts shed light on vulnerability factors, resiliency, and the complexities of identifying abuse or neglect in such environments. Tune in for a thoughtful discussion on the collective responsibility we all share in keeping a watchful eye on those within our communities who may be silently suffering. Show Notes: Unfollow by Megan Phelps Roper Trauma and recovery - Judith Herman Mission of Malice; My Exodus from KwaSizaBantu - Erika Bornman Safeguarding Children

Need a way to come back down to earth again after listening to Hopeful & Victory Disciple’s interview? Come along as Liz, Lindy and Caz reflect together. Our hosts talk developmental regression, what it really means to be a second or multigenerational child of a cult, and they dig into the physical manifestation of trauma for children. What does it mean for a child to learn to deny their needs, before they have even learnt what their needs are? Join us on this episode of Cult Chat, and find out. Show Notes The John Campbell interview which Liz mentions about GV marriages The Guru Papers; Masks of Authoritarian Power by Joel Kramer and Diana Alstad Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs Erik Erikson’s Stages of Psychosocial Development The Psychological Impacts on Children Who Grow Up in Cults by Sam Jahara Mission of Malice; My Exodus from KwaSizaBantu by Erika Bornman Parenting from the Inside Out by Daniel Siegel & Mary Hartzell

Dive into the gripping continuation of the 'Kids in Cults' miniseries with Hopeful and Victory Disciple as they unveil more about life inside Gloriavale. In Part Two, they discuss the intricate web of friendship, social status, and snitches. Discover how high-control groups set children up for failure and hear Victory's emotional poem, providing a heartbreaking glimpse into her childhood. Gain profound insights into the enduring impact on parenting within closed communities and the lasting scars. This episode is a poignant exploration of growing up in a restrictive environment. Show Notes: Dr Ross Green Cracking the Cult Code for Therapists, by Bonnie Zieman Mission of Malice, My escape from KwaSizabantu, by Erka Bornman

Join Hopeful and Victory Disciple in a gripping two-part interview as they share their journey growing up in Gloriavale. They delve into their upbringing in a socially entrapped society, discussing the profound impacts on kids in cults. From bed-wetting to false personas, they shed light on the hidden struggles within high-control groups, unraveling the lasting damage inflicted on the inner selves of children. Don't miss this first eye-opening episode of a two-part conversation about survival. Show Notes: Dr Ross Green Cracking the Cult Code for Therapists, by Bonnie Zieman Mission of Malice, My escape from KwaSizabantu, by Erka Bornman

How do harmful organizations respond when they are accused of abuse? What are the indicators that the response lacks substance or is part of a strategic ploy to maintain control and protect an image? Today our hosts talk about defenses used by abusive groups, including denial, excuses, justifications and comparisons, using examples they have encountered personally. Listen in to learn what real apologies look like, how to sniff out concessions and demonstrations, and why the difference matters. Show Notes: Something’s Not Right - Wade Mullen DARVO - Jennifer Freyd A kind of apology from Bert Potter’s son at Bert’s funeral - May 2012 Criticism of Caroline from an anonymous former Centrepoint member - Nov 2020 Abuse in Care Royal Commision of Inquiry - Redress Why Won’t You Apologize? By Harriet Lerner Institutional Betrayal - Jennifer Freyd

Join us for part 2 of Lindy’s conversation with Shayne and Rachael about the JWs application to be exempt from the NZ Royal Commision of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. They examine the arguments that played out in court, providing a fascinating case study of a faith-based group’s reaction to being investigated by outsiders. Lindy, Liz and Caz then unpack the interview and ask if the behaviour displayed by the JWs under scrutiny gives indications of cultishness, coercion or control. Listen to Part One (Episode 13) here Show Notes Jehovah's Witnesses head to court on Abuse in Care Inquiry - RNZ Jehovah's Witnesses' argument against being included in Abuse in ... Jehovah's Witnesses 'care' outside scope of abuse inquiry, court told Jehovah's Witnesses apply for judicial review of Royal Commission The rules and culture that keep child sex offenders hidden ... - RNZ Something Evil - 10 August 2023 RNZ investigation reveals 11 alleged paedophiles active within the Jehovah's Witnesses - 14 August 2023 Jehovah’s Witness elder alleges order to destroy evidence in child sex abuse cases - 15 August 2023 Silent lambs - The Spin Off - Jully 2018 **Update** High Court decides the Jehovah Witnesses will continue to be included in the Royal Commission.