An Equine Conversation

I’m delighted to welcome Ellen Cochrane back to An Equine Conversation. We heard from Ellen in Season 4, talking all about equine agility and The International Horse Agility Club. This episode is something quiet different: We’re hearing about Ellen’s journey to and experiences in working with mules, both her own mule Inara, and her voluntary efforts in supporting humans working with mules in Morocco to improve welfare outcomes for animals and people. I get tingles even thinking about this episode & what Ellen has been involved with. I hope you find the episode as educational and inspiring as I have. Ellen Cochrane: Ellen Cochrane is from Worcestershire, England. She is a positive reinforcement trainer who works with a variety of equines and their humans through her business Gaia Horsemanship and as part of her work with the International Horse Agility Club - listen to Season 4, Episode . Ellen works mostly with horses in England but she has a huge passion for mules which started in 2014 when she started working to improve mule welfare in Morocco. Ellen works in the High Atlas Mountains of Morocco helping muleteers to improve the welfare of their working mules by improving knowledge and communication and using kinder equipment, plus Ellen is the UK ambassador for Moroccan-based equine rescue charity, Jarjeer Donkey and Mule refuge. Ellen has her own mule, Inara, who has gone from unhandled and fearful of humans to Horse Agility World Champion. In this episode we discuss: 1:26 - Merry Christmas! 3:10 - introduction to today’s episode & guest 7:26 - Ellen’s horsie origin story 10:20 - how positive reinforcement came into Ellen’s world 12:20 - Ellen’s herd 18:09 - conditions & context 22:15 - what’s haylage? 25:04 - how Ellen got involved with mules - a request to go to Morocco 27:46 - the work done by the mules in the mountains of Morocco 30:18 - where the work with mules & humans began 32:33 - what even is a mule & mule breeding 36:41 - what happened after the first trip, working alongside muleteers 42:00 - how does the communication happen: language & gender roles 45:28 - engaging effectively with the male muleteers as an English woman 46:59 - the primary things Ellen helps muleteers with 52:54 - being sought out & the muleteers ‘paying it forward’, a story showing how amazing mules are 55:26 - mule social needs 56:28 - the amazing work of the Jarjeer Mule and Donkey Trust 1:00:36 - trips to Morocco now & contrasts 1:02:32 - getting a mule back at home 1:09:26 - going back to Morocco 1:12:42 - tips for working with mules 1:16:47 - finding out more & supporting 1:19:35 - huge thanks to Ellen for all her efforts 1:23:24 - wrapping up this episode & Season 5 of An Equine Conversation Links from Ellen: Gaia Horsemanship Website: www.gaiahorsemanship.co.uk Gaia Horsemanship Facebook: www.facebook.com/gaiahorsemanship It’s A Mule’s Life Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/itsamuleslife Jarjeer Donkey and Mule refuge Website: https://www.jarjeer.org/ Jarjeer Donkey and Mule refuge Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jarjeermules Our links mentioned this episode: Please share with us, your thoughts on S5 of An Equine Conversation

On the 8th of June 2008, my life changed forever with a split-second accident that saw me trampled by my then 2.5-year-old horse, Fernando, and air-lifted to Hospital for life-saving surgery. This episode is the story of that accident, what happened, the damage that did and where that’s left me now. Before I even introduce this episode, I want to give you a warning. This episode talks about my accident in some detail. There has been one person who on hearing the story, when I was still in Hospital, passed out as a result. If you are someone likely to do that, then please skip this episode or at least, do not listen while driving or doing something where you could get injured… I don’t want my accident resulting in other accidents… not the effect I’m hoping for! ----- In S4 E4 of An Equine Conversation, Why Virtual Learning’s Worth Exploring, I make mention of my being immune-compromised and why for me, that’s one of the reasons that virtual learning is so awesome as I’m so limited to what’s possible in-person due to the very real and serious threat Covid still holds for me. I mention this again in S4 E5 with Erin Moore too when we’re talking about giving micro & small business owners a metaphorical hug – I like a good hug personally but being immune compromised makes it a no-no. So anyway, in this episode of An Equine Conversation I’m going to share with you my story of the horsey accident that left me immune-compromised. It’s a story I’ve told many times. I know some of you will have heard some or all of it before. For those newer to me and my work teaching and my approach, hearing about this part of my story will help inform you more about who I am, what I’m about and why I’m passionate about safety… and importantly, why my horse Fernando and I have a very unique, very special relationship and why he has been my best teacher. In this episode we discuss: 1:22 - episode warning 2:04 - episode introduction 3:29 - the 8th of June 2008 5:09 - the backstory of Fernando’s misadventures, to get you up to speed 9:18 - setting the scene & it all going pear-shaped 13:19 - paramedics ahoy! 16:17 - arriving at The Alfred (Hospital) 21:02 - time in Hospital isn’t fun but it was busy 28:21 - recovering at home & an unexpected Hospital re-visit scenario 38:43 - the upshot of my injuries now 48:02 - how I’ve changed my outlook (or not) as a result of the accident 53:57 - Fernando, the best teacher 57:38 - take-aways from my experience 1:01:33 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week Links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at business@mbpod.com

I am so pleased to be welcoming our 2nd first time guest to An Equine Conversation for Season 5. We’ve had some super wild weather here in my part of the world this Spring that meant this guest and I had to reschedule recording this episode multiple times. Despite the severe storms, power-outages, trees down, no internet, we got there in the end and are bringing you an episode with our most wonderful Equine Veterinary Dentist, Dr Paul Owens from the Horse Vet Dentist. I won’t lie, I used to think the horses mouth was a whole lot simpler than it is. For many years, my horses had an annual visit from an equine dental technician. I’d seen a couple of talks given by them & I thought I knew much of what there was to know. Gosh, how wrong I was! It was thanks to a number of wonderful horsie friends whose opinions I rate, who were working with Dr Paul Owens and singing his praises, that we too got Paul on board our horse-care team maybe 4-5 years ago now. And wow, have we learnt so much over that time. Paul’s knowledge is amazing, as is his preparedness to educate interested owners. Each time Paul’s here, which is every 6-months, there are things I learn and get to see with my own eyes in my horses mouths which is really impactful for my understanding. We really love having Paul as part of our herd’s care team as we share the mission of improving welfare for equines through our work and both love learning more, with Paul bringing us information on the latest research into all things horses mouths. Not only that, but we get to hear some cool stories about the work he does with Zoo’s Victoria too. Which, for those of you who like me, train with positive reinforcement, mean that Paul is already really familiar with this training approach as he sees it in action in his work with the Zoo & is so awesome in supporting what I do with my herd, which can be to our amusement. In his visit here just a few weeks ago, Rufus is such a pro at loading on the crush, we’ve made it so positively reinforcing for him, that he took himself there before we were even ready for him. In today’s episode, we’re going to peer inside the horse’s mouth with Paul and learn a bunch about how it works and equine oral health care. Dr Paul Owens: Paul graduated from the University of Liverpool in the UK in 2001 following a degree in Animal Science and PhD in Animal Nutrition. He worked in North Yorkshire in mixed practice where he developed his interest in equine dentistry attending several BEVA course in this field. In 2007 Paul came to Australia working in Equine/Small Animal Practice in SE Melbourne before eventually setting up a dedicated veterinary dentistry practice in 2011 called HorseVetDentist. The practice offers a wide range of equine dentistry services from routine dental assessments to referrals for advanced dental extraction techniques, periodontal treatments and restorative dentistry. Paul is a tutor on the EVDS veterinary dentistry courses and teaches veterinary students at the U-Vet centre Werribee. He has been fortunate to assist with dentistry procedures at Zoos Victoria and Healesville Sanctuary. Paull attained his MANCVS Memberships in Equine Dentistry in 2014 and continues to attend workshops in dentistry both overseas and in Australia. In this episode we discuss: 1:23 - introduction to this episode & to Dr Paul Owens 4:08 - Dr Paul Owens bio 5:20 - welcoming Paul 6:59 - Paul’s Vet Dentist origin story & ongoing education 13:24 - the importance of evidence-based practice 15:37 - how the horse’s mouth works 20:33 - are donkey and mule mouths the same? 21:24 - what a horses’s oral check/assessment involves (a lot!) 30:53 - teeth are living structures 33:14 - the carrot bite test & the periodontal ligament 35:22 - dental pain in humans and horses (with a shout-out to Dr...

Please note: this episode does contain 'conversational profanity' I am so grateful for the knowledge that business coach, Erin Moore has brought into my life & so I’m delighted that Erin is back with me on An Equine Conversation this episode, to share more of her wisdom with you. In this episode, we’re taking a look at some of the gnarly problems that face micro & small businesses, especially those who work in caring industries (with a focus on the equine world). We consider some of the differences between big and small businesses, and how our consumer expectations differ between the two. We discuss how you, we, as consumers, can support micro & small businesses so that they/we, can continue to provide awesome products and services to you, …. and not contribute to ‘tanking the market’. Annnnd there might be some great tips in there for micro & small business owners too. There is so much in this episode that it’s hard to capture it all in a short, written intro, so you’ll just have to listen to hear all the wisdom within. Erin Moore: Erin Moore was a dog trainer for 13 years, and, by her own admission, made every mistake a dog training business owner could make. After burning out and leaving the industry completely, Erin knew that if she wanted to come back to it, she would need to figure out a different way to do things. So Erin did just that. She hired a coach and learned all about the business end of things, and that changed her entire business and her life. Now Erin coaches trainers on how to set up their businesses so that they can actually have a life and not burn out like she did! In this episode we discuss: 1:24 - profanity warning 1:52 - introduction to this episode & giving the context (shout-out to Jemima from the now closed Sweet Iron Co & Shelby from Milestone Equestrian) 8:23 - welcome back Erin 9:24 - the caring industry, small versus big businesses 13:31 - defining ‘tanking the market’ 15:38 - I’ve done it & the absence of business education 19:00 - being draw to a caring industry, our values & beliefs & how we can help more people 21:11 - free content - time & effort and small versus big business 24:41 - the impact on veterinarians 32:07 - the extra load of financial stress & empathising with the humans 35:33 - if we’re not financially secure, we can’t help anyone and regardless, we can’t help everyone 37:41 - when small businesses make more money, they can help more people 40:07 - the impact of not supporting small business 42:01 - a snapshot of the different hats worn in a business & the costs you don’t see 49:37 - the different aspects of running a micro or small business - besides the actual passion part 52:22 - the correlation between neurodivergence & small business 53:11 - where does the time go in business 54:40 - the importance of self-care for how we show up in business (or what you get as a consumer) 1:00:45 - what do we do as consumers - what’s your sphere of influence (shout-out to Samantha from The School of Visibility) 1:09:37 - more top tips on what you can do & a summary of what you can do 1:17:20 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week Links from Erin: Free, thought-provoking resources on Erin’s website (and other ways to work with Erin too) Find Erin on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/businessendoftheleash Our links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email list Abbey's Run Equestrian...

In today’s episode I’m going to chat with you about the awesomeness of virtual learning in the horse world. This episode is inspired in part by Ivy sharing her experience in last week’s episode and just how integral Michelle’s remote support has been to Swagger and Ivy’s journey and progress. But it’s also inspired by my own experiences with the virtual learning landscape, and by conversations I’ve had with a few people who groan at the prospect… And if, you’ve had to do eLearns for your job, then um, let me just say that these can be, uh, dry, and um, uninspiring. So please, please don’t rate your virtual learning experience based on those alone! If you are groaning at me suggesting more screen time, I know so many people have screen-fatigue, particularly off the back of Covid and due to the way some jobs now operate, I’m not immune from this at all, but if you can stand to, bear with me while I talk through why virtual or remote learning is awesome and why it’s not actually always about the screen. Spoiler alert, you’re listening to me right now, learning, sans screen. I want to nudge you up-front to say that you’re actually likely already engaging in enjoyable, helpful, virtual learning - most likely the free stuff if not paid. Like me, you’re a good chance to have watched things on YouTube, see things on social media, read blog posts, and I mean, you’re listening to this podcast. You’re doing it already! Today, I’m talking more about the paid virtual learning opportunities that exist. I’m going to start with talking about my experience as a learner, then expand on what online learning can do for you. Then I’m going to switch and talk about my experience as an educator and coach and what it’s like from that perspective – which will also explore why the benefits for me and other coaches are benefits for you too. In this episode we discuss: 1:24 - episode introduction 3:00 - you’re already doing it 4:01 - my experiences as a learner with remote/virtual learning 5:13 - the challenge of being so far away 7:28 - the variety of online learning delivery methods 8:47 - horses get to stay home 9:58 - loving virtual learning despite technology not being ‘my first language’ 10:49 - making new friends 12:54 - it’s inclusive for me 14:22 - benefits of remote/virtual learning for you & some of the challenges with a conventional format 18:28 - it’s not always about the screen 22:06 - consuming on your time, in your location 23:44 - learning remotely is not new here in Australia 25:04 - learning the tech is like learning anything 26:18 - why virtual learning is great as an educator with a micro-business & why that makes it great for you too, starting with some of my history to give context 31:27 - the overheads, the real costs 33:15 - what virtual learning offers us 36:02 - in-person learning is also awesome 36:56 - ask super nicely 38:29 - after listening 40:14 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week Links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at business@mbpod.com

Today we welcome our first new guest for this Season. Ivy Starnes caught my attention through her generous sharing of videos documenting her journey with a horse called Swagger, a young, now gelding who was previously living in the wild. I’ve been captivated by Ivy’s training with the support of her coach and friend Michelle, as they help this incredibly unique and quite spectacular horse learn about connecting with humans. He has forced Ivy to really refine her training, and it is super inspiring to watch. Not only is the training lovely, and the problem-solving Ivy and Michelle work through, but also Ivy’s dedication to recording the journey and then paying forward the assistance she was given earlier in life, by sharing the footage so openly. I’m so pleased that Ivy is joining me today so we (I mean, let’s be honest, I invite people onto An Equine Conversation so I get to hear from them too) get to hear more detail around Ivy’s experience with this seriously unique horse. Ivy Starnes: Ivy Starnes has been training horses since she was 16 years old. She started with natural horsemanship methods and has slowly moved more and more towards positive reinforcement. While she still uses pressure and release, Ivy is doing more and more with clicker training. She spends most of her training and teaching working with gaited horses and riders, working to get a smooth and relaxed gait for the trail. In April of 2023, Ivy was given McSwagger to train for the Heart of Phoenix Equine Rescue. Swagger was a feral gelding from eastern Kentucky and Ivy had no previous experience training wild horses. Ivy had seen wild mustangs trained before and assumed she would be able to train Swagger just as easily. He quickly proved her wrong and Ivy is on a journey of training Swagger using only positive reinforcement, documenting the moments and sharing them so others will realize that some horses really do need a lot of time to overcome their fear. In this episode we discuss: 1:25 - episode introduction 3:50 - where in the world are Ivy & Swagger & the climate they live and train in 11:55 - talking hay 12:42 - whoops, sorry Tassie listeners! The rest of what I said was right but you are not 'an Island off Australia', you are 'an Island OF Australia'. My bad! 13:30 - Ivy's unique horsie origin story & gaited horses 26:50.954 - Swagger's story 32:13 - how Swagger came to be with Ivy & initially it seemed it would be easy... 36:57 - but it didn't start well 39:54 - getting out of the rut & getting some help 42:13 - help that's remote 43:60 - starting to slowly solve Swagger's disengagement 48:44 - a break-through and the progress snowball starting to slowly roll 51:56 - the approach for Swagger's care & welfare needs, particularly hoof care 1:03:11 - developing Swagger's environmental curiosity 1:04:35 - the highlights reel from February 2024 onward 1:09: 43 - coaching support with Michelle 1:13:44 - what MAYBE next 1:15:14 - Ivy's biggest learnings & recommendations 1:21:15 - supporting Swagger's journey & finding Ivy 1:24:14 - further thoughts 1:26:47 - wrapping-up with Swagger & Ivy's gift to us & what's on next week Links from Ivy: Go Fund Me link: https://gofund.me/83d83a1f Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/IvysHorses Website: www.IvysHorses.com Our links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email list Abbey's Run...

Today, I want to speak about ‘the hard’ in horses. I recently shared a post on our Abbey’s Run Equestrian Facebook page about this & it resonated with a lot of people. This topic is inspired by those who in the past few months have shared their hard with me, just how tough-a time they’ve had of it, and the thinking and reflection that those conversations have left me with. I don’t think we share enough about the hard and so this episode aims to change that. In this episode we discuss: 1:20 - episode introduction 2:54 - what do I mean by ‘the hard’ 5:06 - some examples 6:20 - the unwell, the injuries & the impact 10:17 - resource limitations, access limitations & financial strain 19:50 - social media’s role 21:49 - human health impacts 23:47 - what do we do about it? 27:19 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week Links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at business@mbpod.com

I’m delighted to be starting Season 5 of An Equine Conversation with a returning and very popular past guest, Dr Dorothy Heffernan. In today’s episode, we catch-up, get an update on Rio, Dorothy’s New Forest pony with Equine Metabolic Syndrome (although, this was recorded back in August 2024, so there’s likely already another update due) and then we get onto today’s topic of how to set everyone up for the best chance of success when introducing a new horse to a herd. If you’ve not encountered Dorothy before, let me suggest jumping back and listening to Season 3, Episode 8, our first episode with Dorothy to hear more about her horsie origin story. Dorothy Heffernan: Dorothy Heffernan, PhD was born and raised in Dublin in the Republic of Ireland, where she was a horse and pony mad child. She moved to Scotland to study psychology and took her love of all things equid with her. After graduating with a PhD from the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, she chose to specialize in equine behavior and has been working as an equine behavior consultant for 17 years, helping people solve behavior challenges with their horses, ponies, donkeys and mules. In 2021, she joined with three other force-free equid trainers to launch Positive Equine Training Scotland, offering support and training to people in Scotland who want to learn about new gentle and compassionate ways of working with their equid friends. Getting to meet and work with a variety of equids, big, small, long and short eared has been Dorothy’s dream all her life, and now she’s living that dream. As well as teaching and helping with equid behaviour issues, Dorothy supervises research projects for the University of Edinburgh courses in Equine Science and Animal Behaviour & Welfare. She has her own three lovely equid friends who take up either far too much (or not nearly enough) of her time, all trained using force free positive reinforcement methods. Photo of Dorothy thanks to El Dunlop Photograph, https://www.eldunlop.com/ In this episode we discuss: 1:23 - episode & guest introduction 3:15 - catching-up on what happened since last episode 6:17 - Rio - a brief re-cap on his history 9:40 - the past few months with Rio 19:10 - onto today’s topic - introducing a new horse to the herd 21:01 - where to start 28:01 - the challenges of social skills for those highly domesticated horses 31:43 - post-inhibitory rebound 32:57 - setting up for introduction success 41:24 - quarantine/isolation for the new horse? 46:30 - ‘it depends’ on your unique context 48:10 - where to get support 53:19 - our case study: introducing Affie & Wren to the herd 1:00:52 - wrapping up, further learning with Dorothy & I, and what’s on next week Links from Dorothy: Find Dorothy via her Facebook profileLight Touch Equine Our links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at business@mbpod.com

Why hello there listener, I'm Sarah Nickels, your host, and I am delighted let you know that Season 5 of An Equine Conversation starts next Wednesday. As always, Season 5 includes 8 episodes, released weekly on a Wednesday morning (Melbourne time). Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode & please tell everyone about An Equine Conversation so that we can get more great information to more lovely people. Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production and consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at business@mbpod.com

This is the FINAL EPISODE of our Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation on ‘What Else Is There?’ besides riding. Last but by no means least, I’m absolutely delighted to welcome our Australian guests for the season, Dee Horwood & Cortney McCartney, owners of the business Scent Horses Australia. Cortney is, I think, only the 2nd person we’ve had on the podcast who I’ve actually met in person, and lives only 2 hours from me. Not only that but Cortney’s horse, the one used to proof the scent detecting concept is a half sibling to my horse Rufus, so technically, we’re like extended family yea? Dee & Cortney are joining me to share their story of getting involved in Equine Scent Detection training fun – a journey that was inspired by a conversation Cortney had when visiting Canada back in I think it was 2011. We’re talking about the awesomeness that is scent detecting with equines. This was such a fun conversation and these humans have such a great story. I’m so excited to help raise the profile of what’s possible here & what these two awesome humans are getting up to. At the end of the episode, stay tune for a bunch of end of Season announcements. Dee Horwood & Cortney McCartney - Scent Horses Australia: Cortney McCartney and Dee Horwood first met in 2003 whilst they were going through police recruit training. Both did a stint in Alice Springs General Duties Policing before transferring to specialist units. Dee went to the Dog Operations Unit where she completed a 3 month drug detection course in Canberra with Australian Border Force. She completed further dog patrol courses with both the Northern Territory and New Zealand Police forces and a Therapy dog course. She is the first and only female Police dog handler to serve in Northern Territory Police forces Dog Operations Unit. Cortney went to the Mounted Police Unit, where she worked on improving the quality of service and support the Unit could provide to general duties officers and other specialised units. She attended and trained with the Western Australian Mounted Police and rode with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Musical Ride. It was whilst Cortney was in Canada that she first heard of “sniffer horses”. Her curiosity got the better of her and she decided to see if she could train a horse to detect substances to help improve and enhance the Mounted Police’ capabilities. There was only one minor hiccup in her plan - she knew nothing about scent detection but knew that with the right guidance it could work. It was just fortunate that Dee had transferred to Darwin and was located right next door to the Mounted Police Unit and thought the idea was awesome! The pair worked together in their spare time training a 3 year old Morgan Horse named Red Bluff Andre who proved to be a keen participant and catapulted them down the path of sniffer horses which led to Scent Horses Australia about 11 years later. What is ‘scent detecting’ with horses: It is essentially capturing and using the horses ability to detect and follow scent particles in the air for our benefit. Horses have the ability to detect scents from ground level up to 2m high which rivals that of a dog. Whilst horses may never replace scenting dogs we can certainly use their keen sense of smell to our advantage. But I’ll let Cortney & Dee share a whole lot more with you in the episode. In this episode we discuss: 1:23 - episode introduction 3:20 - introducing Cortney, Dee and equine scent detection 7:47 - what is equine scent work 9.07 - how Dee & Cortney got into equine scent detection 12:47 - when did it all start for you 14:35 - how it went from the start of testing the concept with Andre 17:49 - Andre’s training prior to this 18:25 - learning how to learn 19:30 - how...

In this episode of our Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation, focusing on ‘What Else Is There?’ besides riding, we welcome the incredibly experienced & knowledgeable, Peggy Hogan to chat with us on the topic of Cooperative Care. Cooperative Care may be a new term for some of you. It’s something that is used or can, or we could perhaps say should be used widely in the animal world, including with our equines. But I’ll let Peggy tell you more on this shortly. Some people may think of Cooperative care as boring, but I think it is anything but & find it amazing & totally fascinating. I know Peggy shares my feelings and has done a heap of learning about & exploring cooperative care with the equines in her world. Cooperative care is something we could and really should all be training with our horses, to make daily care activities a breeze & emergency care activities less stressful. It also has the most wonderful flow-on effects to all our training and the relationship we have with our equines, so it is well worth investing our time into. A few notes on this episode for you… It was very remiss of me, in this conversation, not to invite Peggy to introduce herself more fully to you. I’ve no doubt many of you will already be familiar with Peggy’s work, but not everyone will. I can tell you that Peggy & I have already spoken about another podcast episode conversation we’d like to record and so I’ll make sure we capture Peggy’s story then. Just a couple of things or people Peggy mentions this episode that it’s just worth defining for you: Dr Susan Friedman has a business called Behavior Works, the US spelling of Behavior, and runs courses through that platform for those of us in the animal training sphere. I’ve participated twice in the Living and Learning with Animals course – which I know Peggy has attended many, many times. Clicker Expo – this is an annual, now twice annual conference event run by Karen Pryor Academy based in the US. In late January, early February-ish is a virtual expo, which means those of us living far away can attend live & watch back recordings. There’s also an in-person Expo that happens too. I’ve attended the virtual Clicker Expo a couple of times now and can say it is full of so much inspiring, educational information and practical things to play with, with our animal friends. There are more people mentioned and terms used like in every episode, that I missed catching & defining for you, but hopefully you get the gist enough and can start looking things up that peak you’re interest… and also, we have more to discuss in future episodes. Join Peggy and I now, as we delve into the world of Cooperative Care… with us attempting great restraint on not getting too far into the training weeds … and they were some tempting weeds I tell you but we managed to mostly stay on track. Peggy Hogan: Through her business, The Best Whisper is a Click, Peggy Hogan has traveled internationally providing clicker training clinics, and more recently, online coaching and courses generously sharing knowledge of Clicker Training horses. She has been a speaker at Clicker Expo since 2013. Her background in training includes Natural Horsemanship and an in-depth study of the teachings of Peggy Cummings, founder of Connected Riding. In the late 90's there was little information on using positive reinforcement with horses, so after an introduction from Alexandra Kurland, Peggy learned from professional clicker trainers of many other species, world renowned trainers like Ken Ramirez, as well as diving into the science behind the training with Dr. Susan Friedman. Peggy has investigated ways to add more shaping, capturing, luring, and targeting to her clicker training for horses program. Horses offer complex behaviors freely if given the choice, behaviors that range from agility to freestyle to husbandry

I’m excited to introduce our next topic & guest on our Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation, focusing on ‘What Else Is There?’ besides riding. I suspect some of your will be familiar with the work of Maja Bagdziun. Maja shares a heap of beautiful, inspiring training videos through her Facebook page: Hear Your Horse Whisper - science based information and education and two Facebook groups: Enrichment for Horses and No Drama Pony Training. Once again, An Equine Conversation is giving me an excuse to speak to yet another individual who’s work I have been admiring for some time. I find Maja’s training lovely to watch, very creative and inspiring, using the environment she has to work with and a bunch of lateral thinking. I love enrichment as something we can do with our equine’s that has loads of benefits and is a pretty easy and can be very cost-effective activity. I know how much I enjoy working with my herd on different enrichment activities & I wanted to share this with you. I know that Maja too is passionate about using enrichment as part of her ponies lives… and I imagine too for her new goat additions – you’ll have to watch her Facebook spaces to see more of goat training fun as well. I strongly suspect that some of you are already using enrichment with your equines, whether you give it that label or not, and those who aren’t will likely be heading outside to play after listening to this episode. I’ll stop here and introduce Maja and let her tell us a heap more. Maja Bagdziun: Maja is an animal lover who has committed time to explore behavioural science, ethology, cognition, affective neuroscience (emotions), calming signals and enrichment in dogs and horses. She uses an evidence based approach to work with animals and positive reinforcement is her main tool of interaction and training. Having had graduated with Educational Psychology she has the academic background that helps her to understand how not just humans but also animals learn. She's passionate about modern horse training that incorporates cognition, emotion, ethology, biology and attachment theory which allows her to consider an animal in front of her in a holistic way. She's passionate about sharing her knowledge and skills with the others and runs a Facebook Page and Groups that are dedicated to education, science based training and interactions with horses as well as providing everyday enrichment ideas to help make horses lives better. ‘Enrichment For Horses’ Facebook group: Maja set up her Enrichment for Horses group in 2019 with the original aim to share her own experience of exposing her rescue ponies to enrichment items to stimulate their natural SEEKING system, curiosity and cognitive skills. She started off with introducing a novel item each day but quickly learned that this was not an appropriate approach for her rescue pony Charisma who needed predictability and consistency to learn to trust the humans and his new environment. This lead Maja to abandon the original idea of introducing items everyday and instead she's opened to group to public audience and invited people to share their own ideas while taking a slower and more predictable approach in her own enrichment journey with her ponies. The group has since grown massively and has now got over 35k followers. In this episode we discuss: 1:21 - episode introduction 2:13 - introducing Maja & the Enrichment For Horses Facebook group 9:40 - what is ‘enrichment’ and what is it for equines? 10:57 - how did Maja get interested in enrichment for horses 12:27 - the rescue ponies: Cracker & Charisma 14:03 - more about the ponies 17:36 - what motivated you to set up the Enrichment For Horses Fb group 20:06 - why provide enrichment? 26:42 - enrichment in the Zoo world 30:39

This episode of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’ we are connecting with the far west coast of Scotland to speak with today’s guest Nicky Ross, owner of the business Horse Play. I first discovered Nicky some years back through a training group we were both in on Facebook and I saw some of the lovely videos she was sharing of her work, teaching one of her ponies to go in harness, purely training using positive reinforcement. Nicky was based in England at that point, and then I watched from afar as Nicky and family moved to Scotland – much jealously from us, except for the midges – to the far west coast. Since then, Nicky has evolved her activities with her ponies and her human learners to work with the amazing environment there. I really enjoy seeing what Nicky and crew are getting up to – things that I can only dream about where I am. Once again, the beauty of having a podcast means I could reach out & was so pleased to have the opportunity to speak with Nicky and hear more about her background, approach, the diversity activities that go on, and what makes Nicky’s heart smile & feel true in how she connects and helps her human learners connect with equines. I really resonate with a lot of Nicky’s approach and I’m delighted to share some more inspiration with you, our listeners this episode. Nicky Ross: Nicky Ross an equine behaviourist and teacher living in the Highlands of Scotland with her family, a little herd of Shetland ponies and 5 rabbits! Nicky has always loved all things horse and began teaching horse behaviour to children, adults and professionals 10 years ago. Nicky has a passion for improving equine welfare through giving people the knowledge, skills and understanding to view the world through their horse's eyes. Horse Play: Originally founded when Nicky and her family lived in Yorkshire, Horse Play is all about sharing a passion for equine behaviour and wellbeing with others. Through fun, practical experiences with the herd, we explore the Highlands whilst gaining amazing insights into the horse’s mind. In this episode we discuss: 1:26 - episode introduction 3:03 - introducing Nicky & Horse Play 4:25 - the landscape that forms a large part of the adventures 7:10 - actively choosing the place 9:39 - the story & evolution of Horse Play - the amazing learning experiences 16:12 - Nicky’s horsie origins 20:07 - learning the most from the horses 22:10 - Nicky’s equine team 24:39 - small versus riding horses - the conversations possible 27:32 - Pixie’s driving 31:28 - the diversity of activities 39:48 - the word ‘liberty’ & what that means in Nicky’s world 45:21 - similarities & differences between big and little 48:42 - people facing their own (long-time, intergenerational) learning history & the challenge with choice & the paradigm shift 57:12 - how you can get involved 1:02:57 - even more adventures 1:06: 05 - episode wrap-up & what’s coming up at Abbey’s Run & next week Links from Nicky: Website, https://horseplay.horse/ New Online Course: Horse Play At Home, https://www.horseplayhighlands.com/pl/2148332144 Free Webinar sharing the secrets of how we're able to work with our horses at liberty with only minimal training, https://nicky-ross.mykajabi.com/pl/2148295556 Our links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email list Abbey's Run Equestrian...

This episode of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’ takes a little bit of a different view. Today, instead of us meeting with those who engage in this space in a more professional capacity, it is my pleasure to introduce you to a couple who are horse-owners and to share their, very personal but very inspiring journey. I connected with Chris and Michael Fallon, based in the United States, as a result of the post I put up and shared into the Non Ridden Equine Facebook group, asking what fun, non-ridden activities were people getting up to with their equine friends. Chris posted a comment that included the most delightful video montage of a bunch of tricks their horse Pirate was doing, many with her husband Michael. The video, especially Michael’s joy as he played with Pirate & Pirates engagement, made me chuckle, filled me with joy and I made a point of showing it to Benn, for him to see another male having fun in this way. We were both tickled. So I reached out to Chris and invited her and Michael to join me for a conversation, to share their experiences with you as other owners who are not professionals in the ethical horse world. To my delight, they were happy to chat with me so that their story could inspire others. I think a really key part of Chris and Michael’s story is that their horse Pirate CAN be ridden at this point, unlike Vicki’s Kez that we spoke about last week. Pirate can be ridden and still they are having a fabulous time with him from the ground. I am incredibly grateful to Chris and Michael for meeting with me and so openly sharing this personal story with me and now you. I hope it leaves you feeling inspired about what’s possible with your equine friends. Chris & Michael Fallon: Chris and Michael currently live in Garnet Valley, Pennsylvania. Chris has two children; Bobby and Melanie and two grandchildren. Chris received her bachelor’s degree in Elementary Education/Psychology from Millersville State University and her master’s degree in Strategic Leadership from Neumann University. Chris is currently the Cooperative Education Coordinator at Delaware County Technical High Schools and has been in that position for 19 years. Chris has played the piano since she was 3 years old and enjoys music, photography, traveling, spending time with her grandchildren and wastes time buying things from Amazon and returning them. Michael received his degree in Hotel and Restaurant Management from Penn State University and is a construction superintendent for a general contractor. He has been an indentured servant for way too long and is hoping to retire if he hits the lottery. Michael enjoys collecting junk, traveling and snoring. Pirate: Pirate is a 14-year-old black, quarter horse gelding. He is boarded at Cloverleaf Stables in Chadds Ford, PA. His favorite activities are eating everything in sight and training his owners to scratch him and play with him. He likes to search everyone’s grain bucket hoping that there could be some kernels left behind. Pirate has also become a connoisseur of fine fruits and vegetables. He has taught his Mike and Chris to forget the crappy supermarket food; only expensive fruits and vegetables that have been organically grown will suit his refined palate. Pirate has also been Chris’ therapist which he does free of charge. After Chris sustained a severe, non-horse related injury, Chris enjoys just sitting in the pasture with Pirate and doing nothing. The therapist that Chris had to pay suggested that she find ways to “stay in the moment” to help cope with the mental effects of a permanent disability. Since horses live in the moment, just hanging out with Pirate has helped her to relax and not focus on her injury. Pirate has owned Chris and Michael Fallon since February, 2019. In this...

In this episode of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’, I’m delighted to introduce you to Vicki Jayne Yates and the Facebook group she established with her husband Steve, ‘The Non Ridden Equine’. This free group that continues to grow weekly with a current membership of over 32,000 people from around the world. I’ve been a member for a number of years now and love being part of such an inclusive, welcoming group and a place where I can draw inspiration on ideas of what activities I can be doing with my horses besides riding. I wanted to showcase this community to you because I think we can sometimes feel isolated and perhaps lonely if we’re not riding. So much is focused on the ridden world and there can be peer-pressure to ride, I know I’ve faced it. I want you to know that if you are not riding your equines or even if you are, that there is this amazing, international community out there that you can be part of if you’re not already. There are SO many people around the world who have equines that they don’t ride & enjoy in other ways. The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group is somewhere that you can find connection and possibly some inspiration too (listen next week for more on this). I also find Vicki and Steve’s story with Kez, which inspired the establishment of the group very powerful and wanted to share that with you too. Enjoy & see you in The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group soon. Vicki Jayne Yates: Vicki is an artist, Reiki healer, animal communicator and founder of the original Non Ridden Equine Facebook group. Vicki has many years’ experience in the equine industry. Her horsemanship approach has been showcased many times in published articles in magazines. Vicki is passionate out non ridden equines and the many lessons we can learn side by side from equines. Vicki’s passion for non ridden equines comes from years of seeing first-hand how disadvantaged they are in a world in love with riding. Vicki and her husband Steve’s own horse Kez cannot be ridden due to his health conditions. He is a daily reminder that more must be done for non ridden equines. Not all are lucky to have guardians who love unconditionally. Vicki and Steve set up the original Non Ridden Equine Facebook group. Tens of thousands of people have joined. It was clear that social media is a fantastic way to connect and share stories. Kez has his own social media page and Vicki has also created free non ridden resources for all and called it Kez’s Club. On a very personal level Vicki has been on profound and life changing journeys with my own equines. Each has gifted her insights and knowledge. Lessons can be deep, personal and take us out of our comfort zones into new learning. The bond between 2 souls is real and spiritual. The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group This is the original Non Ridden Equine group on Facebook and is the pioneer in raising the non-ridden agenda and influencing change. It has gone global with members worldwide. The group is not an anti-riding group. Horses are not born with tack. Plenty cannot be ridden or driven for many reasons. Some people choose not to ride. The non ridden equine is often over looked and under-valued. This Facebook group has been created to celebrate the many joys non-ridden equines can bring to us. It is a place people can exchange ideas and experiences of enjoyment of the non-ridden equine. Plus show off their beautiful equines. People who ride are also welcome. As everything non-ridden is great for ridden equines too. Riding is wonderful if it is ethical and FUN for both horse and human. In this episode we discuss: 1:21 - episode introduction 3:23 - introducing Vicki & The Non Ridden Equine Facebook group 5:46 - a thank you & Vicki’s story of finding this passion 8:36 - the personal journey that led to

I’m so excited to introduce today, our first guest of our Special Edition Season on ‘What Else Is There?’ (besides riding). I’ll be straight with you and say that one of the joys of podcasting is having a reason to speak to some awesome humans in our industry, because uh, I want to connect with them myself, and today is no exception. Ellen Cochrane came on my radar a couple of years ago, when someone shared the footage of Ellen’s mule Inara, pushing a soccer ball around an S-bend of poles. It was posted on Ellen’s page that follow’s Inara’s journey, ‘It’s a Mule’s Life’ and it was amazing. This was clearly someone who was a very clever trainer and able to achieve awesome things, and so I started following Ellen’s work. In parallel with this and probably even before I knew of Ellen, I had heard about Equine Agility and was captivated by the idea. There is so much I love about this as an activity we can be doing with our horses for fun, that hones our training skills broadly with lots of real-world positive impacts, and it also facilitates those who have a competitive drive to compete, while still keeping their horse comfortable as possible as the entries are submitted from home. It’s something that can be done un-mounted on lead and off-lead and also done mounted. There are so many options and the creators have made this opportunity inclusive for so many equines and their humans. I can’t wait to explore it with my equine team. But, let me stop there as Ellen will explain so much more in the conversation you’re about to hear. I will just say that I’ll be speaking with Ellen again soon in a future Season of An Equine Conversation as there are so many more things we want to share with you. Ellen Cochrane Ellen Cochrane, based in England, first discovered Horse Agility when working with a client with a disability who wanted something safe she could do with her new horse. Ellen thought it was brilliant decided to get involved herself as a way of providing some focus into training her rescue mule, Inara, and to help build her confidence. Inara and Ellen both really enjoyed Agility and progressed through the levels with Ellen then stepping into the role of a Horse Agility Accredited Trainer. This meant Ellen could coach other people officially and run clinics. Over the years, Inara & Ellen had won a few titles, but in 2022, they hit the big ones and became Horse Agility World Champion both on-lead and Liberty. Ellen then chose to retire from competing to instead get involved from the other side, joining the Horse Agility Club as a judge, course designer and certificate course coach. Ellen also teaches Horse Agility in “real life” and runs clinics and camps. Ellen is also a positive reinforcement trainer working with various clients, and is the owner of I think it was also 7 equines, just like we have here, although unlike us, Ellen has a mule in the mix. Photo of Ellen & Inara thanks to: Catchphrase Photography International Horse Agility Club The International Horse Agility Club was founded by Vanessa Bee in December 2009, and has become a fast-growing equine sport. Horse Agility sees you navigate a series of obstacles with your horse with a focus on working together as a team. The club runs monthly competitions in both on-lead classes and liberty classes, as well as Equagility classes which are ridden. We also have a special Junior course for our young members, a Young Horse class for our young horses, and even an Any Other Animal class for anything from a guinea pig to a llama and everything in between! The main competitions are online video competitions which means you can compete from the comfort of your horse’s home. We also have special Walking Only classes for those equines or people who have difficulties going faster than a walk. The Walk Only classes are not easier – but rather focus on more...

I have spent many hours thinking about bringing this Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation to you, and then of course planning & sourcing guests & editing episodes. The more I thought about it, the more and more important and the clearer the WHY for this episode became to me. And it seemed more than what was sensible to fit into the already long Season Trailer, so here we are at Episode 1, talking about the why. Why we are producing a Special Edition of An Equine Conversation on ‘What else is there?’. In this episode we discuss: 1:43 - episode introduction 2:15 - first, some cool podcast stats & thanks to you 6:22 - the problem for the horses 10:22 - the challenge the humans can face 12:32 - what we want to do this season 13:56 - the list we heard from you so far 17:03 - episode wrap-up 18:21 - April 2024 activities & what’s on next week’s episode Links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email list Sign-up to our free 90min workshop on the 10th of April Finessing the Fundamentals: 2-day, in person workshop in April From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the future Abbey's Run Equestrian website Abbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at business@mbpod.com

Hello lovely listener! I am so excited to be back & bringing you this, our first Special Edition Season of An Equine Conversation. Just like previous Seasons of the podcast, Season 4 includes 8 episodes, the first of which will drop next Wednesday. Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production and consultation. If you'd like him to help with your podcast, get in touch by email at business@mbpod.com

Here we are at our final episode for Season 3 of An Equine Conversation. The months & months of recording & editing have all finally finished & you now have the whole season to listen to & what an epic season it has been too. Stay tuned at the end of the conversation for some announcements. I’m delighted to bring you this final episode with the 4th inspirational women in the horse world I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with this season. This is yet another conversation I’ve been so looking forward to having and to sharing with you. Dr Dorothy Heffernan is based in Scotland, my favourite place in the world besides where I am in Victoria, Australia, but grew up in Ireland. I mention in the conversation, an Irish documentary that was on TV when I was a child about horses in Ireland and so I always wondered what it would have been like growing up horsie in Ireland. You’ll never believe it, but someone’s put that 53 minute and a bit documentary, which must have been made in the 1980’s or even 70’s onto YouTube. I almost fell off my chair when I thought to look and found it. I digress… Dorothy first came on my radar a number of years ago with her insightful responses to questions on some of the equine behaviour & positive reinforcement Facebook groups & it seemed Dorothy liked mine too & we connected over a like-minded approach. Since then I’ve been following Dorothy’s journey with both her training work with humans & horses in Scotland, and with her own little herd of horses. I knew Dorothy grew up in Ireland and I wanted to hear what that was like & I love Scotland so am always happy to speak with anyone there. I know some of you lovely listeners had really resonated with & appreciated hearing Julia Inglis story with her EMS horse and you wanted more information around EMS – a growing challenge for many horse owners. Dorothy has an EMS pony Rio – whose story I wanted to share with you as well, so we delve into the trials and tribulations of managing an EMS pony in Scotland. It was such a fun conversation with Dorothy who is a great story-teller. Even listening back to edit the episode, I laughed and I almost shed tears at different points. I hope you enjoy listening as much as Dorothy & I enjoyed recording this for you. Dorothy Heffernan: Dorothy Heffernan, PhD was born and raised in Dublin in the Republic of Ireland, where she was a horse and pony mad child. She moved to Scotland to study psychology and took her love of all things equid with her. After graduating with a PhD from the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, she chose to specialize in equine behavior and has been working as an equine behavior consultant for 17 years, helping people solve behavior challenges with their horses, ponies, donkeys and mules. In 2021, she joined with three other force-free equid trainers to launch Positive Equine Training Scotland, offering support and training to people in Scotland who want to learn about new gentle and compassionate ways of working with their equid friends. Getting to meet and work with a variety of equids, big, small, long and short eared has been Dorothy’s dream all her life, and now she’s living that dream. As well as teaching and helping with equid behaviour issues, Dorothy supervises research projects for the University of Edinburgh courses in Equine Science and Animal Behaviour & Welfare. She has her own three lovely equid friends who take up either far too much (or not nearly enough) of her time, all trained using force free positive reinforcement methods. In this episode we discuss: 1:24 - episode introduction 4:15 - introducing Dr Dorothy Heffernan 4:47 - Scotland: the Scottish summer, loving Scotland & accents/dilects 14:09 - growing up horse-mad in the suburbs of Dublin 16.29 - riding lessons in the middle of Dublin city 18:36 - making the most

Let me invite you today, to come for a little journey into the wine cellar with me, which is kind of ironic, given I don’t drink alcohol, but hey, I can still appreciate the amazingness that is a wine cellar… so come on this little journey with me. Why are we going to the wine cellar? Well, for very, very good reason: Because, we have a tendency to start training our horses on the ground floor or somewhere above it, so, in the middle instead of at the beginning, instead of starting down in the gloriousness that is the wine cellar. I think we do this for a variety of very legitimate reasons, but it often leads us into a pickle in lots of ways with training our horses where we get ourselves stuck or facing problems. I hear some of you cry here, ‘but but but, I am not a horse trainer, I am an owner and I work with a trainer so this episode can’t be for me’… and I’m here to tell you that anyone who works with or cares for any animal, anywhere is a trainer – regardless of whether we’re conscious of it or not. So yep, if you care for a horse or any other animal, you are a trainer & this episode, this visit to the wine cellar is for you. As if you don’t want to go to the wine cellar anyway!? In today’s episode I’m going to speak to the training that comes before the training. Because that piece is inextricably connected to just how successful any training, which I say in inverted commas, is. So let’s head down the stairs into the cool of the wine cellar together and get started. In this episode we discuss: 1:22 - episode introduction 3:10 - we so often miss the (training) things that come before & start training somewhere in the middle instead of at the start (or in the wine cellar) 5:37 - there’s a whole lot of training that doesn’t seem like ‘training’ but IS training and has a direct impact on our ‘training’ 7:37 - the things that come before the wine cellar - the ‘site preparation’ 8:46 - problems in training: symptoms versus causes 9:58 - what’s falls into the category of training that doesn’t seem like training but is training, for you 13:19 - setting up the classroom for student success 14:19 - wine cellar foundations are not something most of us were taught 16:49 - the role that peer pressure (direct or in-direct) plays 19:34 - it’s not rocket science, but we mostly miss them and/or need permission to go there 20:23 - an activity you can do that doesn’t seem like training but absolutely is training 23:30 - another activity to think about how you’d approach in your circumstances 25:54 - episode recap 30.22 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week Links mentioned this episode: Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/