It Means What It Means

Gavin Fernandes discusses his article on the Song of Songs and the issue with the interpretation of the words 'melech' and 'alamot'. He argues that the word 'melech' should be understood as 'king' and not dismissed or interpreted figuratively. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding the literary integrity of the text and the presence of three parties: the king, the woman, and the women. Fernandes explores the debate on whether the Song of Songs has a narrative and argues that it is a lyric poetry that can convey a narrative. He discusses the historical and theological interpretations of the Song of Songs and the challenges of reconciling the literary and theological perspectives. The conversation explores the complexity and structure of the Song of Songs, focusing on the characters, themes, and narrative progression. The guest argues that the song is a literary unity rather than a collection of songs. They discuss the use of pastoral language and the presence of multiple characters speaking in the text. The guest also suggests that the song can be seen as an early Cinderella narrative. They touch on the performative potential of the song but argue that it was not originally intended as a stage piece.

Mark Durie, an Anglican pastor and expert on Islam, discusses the influence of Charles Kraft on missions to Muslims. Kraft, a missiologist, promoted the idea of insider movements, where Muslims could follow Christ while retaining their Muslim identity. Durie explains that Kraft's approach to biblical translation was influenced by Eugene Nida, who believed that meaning was determined by the response it evoked. Kraft argued for the removal of terms like 'Son of God' and 'Father' from Bible translations to avoid offense to Muslims. Durie critiques Kraft's dismissal of the Nicene Creed and emphasizes the importance of cultural sensitivity in missions. In this conversation, Jared and Mark Durie discuss the issue of insider movements and Muslim idiom translations. They explore the interaction between Orthodox or Eastern Christians and the concept of insider movements. They also delve into the concern for ontology and the substance of Jesus in the biblical text, as well as the relationship between Christianity and Islam. Mark Durie critiques Charles Kraft's view of Islam as a cultural heresy of Christianity and discusses the challenges of understanding different cultures and languages. He emphasizes the importance of engaging with different perspectives and wrestling with complex ideas.

Kyle discusses the importance of Bible translation for the church and challenges the notion that the Bible is primarily for non-Christians. He emphasizes the need for pastors and laypeople to engage with the original languages of the Bible and highlights the role of exegesis, hermeneutics, and theology in interpretation. Kyle also emphasizes the importance of stable translations that can be used by Christian communities for worship, teaching, and evangelism. In this conversation, Kyle discusses the importance of receptivity and thinking about the audience when it comes to Bible translation. He also emphasizes the role of translations and footnotes in helping people understand the original languages. Kyle highlights the historical importance of Bible translation, particularly in the context of creeds and confessions. He emphasizes the need for Bible translation in local congregations and encourages pastors and laypeople to pray for and engage in this important work. Kyle also shares recommended resources for further exploration and discusses his reading preferences and ways to decompress.

In this conversation, Georges Houssney discusses his background and ministry, as well as the impact of the Arabic language on Islam and Christianity. He explains the differences in terminology between the two religions and the challenges of translating the Bible into Arabic. Georges also shares his perspective on the Insider Movement and the importance of the Orthodox Church's historical approach to theology. He emphasizes the need for a transformational model of evangelism and the cultural changes that come with accepting Christianity. Georges concludes by discussing the concept of the Son of God and the challenges of interpreting this theological term. The conversation explores various theological and cultural topics related to Christian theology and missiology. Georges passionately discusses the core of Christian theology and the importance of the relationship between God as the father and Jesus as the son. He also mentions additional resources, such as Biblical Missiology, for further study. The concept of redeeming missiology is introduced, which involves integrating social sciences with biblical theology. Georges emphasizes the importance of reading the Bible with the intent of God rather than imposing personal interpretations. The conversation concludes with a discussion on reading and writing, with Georges sharing his focus on writing books and articles.

In this conversation, Fred Farrokh discusses the controversy surrounding Muslim Idiom Bible translations and the theological assumptions behind them. He explains the challenges faced by Bible translators in communicating the gospel to Muslims and the tension between making the message understandable and acceptable. The conversation also touches on the role of indigenous Christian communities, the complexity of cultural context, and the translation of divine familial terminology. Farrokh emphasizes the importance of contextualizing the Bible in a way that people can understand and the need for a good diagnosis to find appropriate solutions. This conversation explores the controversy surrounding the translation of the terms “Son of Man” and “Son of God” in the Bible for Muslim audiences. The discussion delves into the political and theological implications of these translations, as well as the impact on Muslim perceptions of the Bible. The conversation also highlights the importance of understanding the cultural and linguistic context in Bible translation.

This conversation explores the topic of Muslim Idiom Translations in the context of Bible translation and the challenges faced by Christians in Muslim majority societies. The discussion covers the history of Arabic-speaking Christians, the tension between missiology and ecclesiology, and the concerns of Christians in Muslim majority societies. The target audience for this conversation includes Bible translators, linguists, mission organizations, missionaries, seminaries, pastors, and supporting churches. In this conversation, Ant Greenham discusses his book on Bible translation and the importance of the subject. He highlights that the book provides valuable insights for both experts and those with a general interest in the topic. Ant also shares his personal reading preferences, focusing on history and culture. The conversation concludes with Jared expressing his gratitude and extending an invitation for future discussions.

In this conversation, John Dunne discusses his recent article “The Souring of the Ways: Anti-Jewish Readings of Psalm 69 and the Wine Offerings to Jesus.” He explores the texts in the gospels and the Hebrew Bible, highlighting the differences and inconsistencies in the details of the wine offerings. Dunne argues that the simplification of these details in later tradition is influenced by the intertext of Psalm 69. This simplification leads to an anti-Jewish reading, where the Jewish people are blamed for offering sour wine and gall to Jesus. Dunne also examines the commentaries on Psalm 69 and how they contribute to this anti-Jewish interpretation. The conversation explores the use of intertextuality in the Gospels, specifically focusing on the references to Psalm 69. John argues that the Gospel authors are not intentionally drawing from the Septuagint or consciously using biblical language, but rather they are leveraging the psalm intertext and it became a ubiquitous way of thinking about the events. The conversation also touches on the variations in the Gospel accounts and the subsequent development of the tradition that implicates the Jewish people. John emphasizes the importance of reading each Gospel on its own and understanding its unique theological interests. John Dunne is one of a team of contributors to the blog/podcast The Two Cities.

Nick Posegay, a postdoctoral researcher at the Cambridge Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies, discusses the Cairo Genizah, a Jewish collection of texts that contains manuscripts from the 8th to the 20th century. He explains the history and significance of the Genizah, the types of materials and inks used in the manuscripts, and the challenges of dating and cataloging the fragments. Posegay also recommends books, such as Sacred Trash and The Sisters of Sinai, that provide further insights into the Genizah and its discovery. Check out my next guest John Anthony Dunne on his blog/podcast The Two Cities.

In this conversation, Jared interviews Isaac T. Soon, an expert in religious studies, about his article on the interpretation of the Zacchaeus story in Luke 19:1-10. They discuss the common assumption that Zacchaeus is the short one in the story, while Jesus is seen as normal and able-bodied. Isaac challenges this interpretation and argues that it is possible that Jesus is the short one, which disrupts the traditional understanding of Jesus as physically perfect. They also touch on the intersection of disability studies and biblical interpretation, as well as the need for more diverse perspectives in the field.

Rebecca Runesson discusses her article on Centurions in the Jesus Movement and the Gaianus inscription at Kefar ‘Othnay. She explores the role of centurions as patrons and their interactions with the local community. The spread of ideas and belief systems is examined through the lens of weak ties and strong ties. The Gaianus inscription is analyzed as an example of patronage in the early Christ cult. This conversation explores the symbiotic nature of patronage, the role of weak ties in social networks, and the potential of soldiers and centurions to adopt new ideas. It delves into the spread of the Jesus movement among soldiers and the influence of weak ties on their adoption of new ideas. The conversation also questions assumptions about the relationship between centurions and Christ groups, and recommends readings on patronage and centurions. Additionally, it touches on the enjoyment of reading children's books for fun.

In this conversation, Wally Cirafesi discusses his article on rethinking the portrayal of the synagogue in the Gospel of John. He challenges the assumption that the expulsion of Christ believers from the synagogue represents a break between Judaism and Christianity. Cirafesi argues that synagogues in the ancient world were diverse and multifunctional public institutions, rather than monolithic religious spaces. He emphasizes the need to read the New Testament within its Jewish context and appreciate the Jewishness of the text. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding the historical and social context of synagogues in order to interpret the Gospel of John accurately. In this conversation, Wally Cirafesi discusses the issue of antisemitism in biblical interpretation, particularly in relation to the Gospel of John. He highlights the importance of being aware of the historical context and the potential for embedded antisemitic ideas in Christian readings of the New Testament. Wally recommends resources and scholars that provide a more nuanced understanding of the text and its Jewish context. He also shares his personal interests, including playing the ukulele.

Samuel Wells discusses his book Improvisation: The Drama of Christian Ethics and explores the concept of improvisation in Christian ethics. He introduces the metaphor of the Five Act Play, which includes creation, covenant, Christ, church, and consummation. Wells emphasizes the importance of ecclesial ethics and the formation of character within the church. He explains the concept of accepting and over-accepting offers in improvisation and how it relates to ethical decision-making. Wells also discusses the challenges of prisons and the need for a change in culture. He explores the dimensions of improvisation and provides contemporary examples of over-accepting in society. Finally, he highlights the subversive nature of stories in challenging dominant narratives. In this conversation, Sam Wells discusses the significance of story in ethics and leadership. He emphasizes the importance of locating ourselves in the larger narrative and using storytelling to guide and inspire others. Wells also explores the concept of reincorporation in storytelling, where neglected elements are brought back into the narrative. He highlights the power that individuals possess and often overlook, urging them to recognize and use their power for positive change. Wells concludes by recommending further reading in the areas of Christian social engagement and the application of improvisation in various contexts.

In this conversation, Andrew Das discusses his book Remarriage in Early Christianity. He shares how his interest in the subject began and the various influences that shaped his research. Das explores the Greco-Roman and Jewish contexts of the time, highlighting the widespread acceptance of divorce and remarriage. However, he notes that Jesus' teachings on divorce and remarriage were radical and went against the prevailing cultural norms. Das examines the passages in the Gospels where Jesus addresses this topic and emphasizes the importance of understanding the historical and cultural context. He also discusses Paul's views on marriage and celibacy and the ascetic elements within early Christianity.

The conversation explores the themes of biblical hermeneutics, the hermeneutics of suspicion, and the intersectionality of race and gender in biblical interpretation. The guest, Gail Yee, discusses her book on Asian-American biblical hermeneutics and the importance of understanding the historical and cultural context of biblical texts. They also touch on the abuse of the Bible in Christian nationalism and the need for a critical and nuanced reading of the text. In this conversation, Dr. Gail Yee discusses her approach to biblical hermeneutics and the importance of considering historical and cultural contexts when interpreting biblical texts. She emphasizes the need to challenge traditional interpretations that perpetuate harmful stereotypes and marginalize certain groups. Dr. Yee also explores the themes of power dynamics, gender, and race in biblical narratives, using examples from the stories of Jezebel, David, and Ruth. She encourages readers to engage with study Bibles and other resources that provide historical and contextual information to deepen their understanding of the biblical texts.

In this conversation, Christopher W. Jones discusses his article on the literary historical memory of Sargon of Akkad and its connection to the figure of Nimrod in Genesis 10. He explains the concept of literary historical memory and provides background information on Sargon of Akkad. Jones explores the subversive nature of the Nimrod narrative and its critique of empire. He also discusses the dating of the Nimrod story and previous attempts to identify Nimrod. Jones recommends works by David Carr, Ust-Din-Nai-O-Dead, and Peter Machinist for further reading. In this conversation, Christopher Jones discusses his favorite children's books and shares his excitement for the upcoming podcast. He also expresses his appreciation for being a part of the podcast and acknowledges the impressive lineup of guests.

In this conversation, Dr. Jeremy L. Williams discusses his research on criminalization in the book of Acts and its relevance to contemporary issues of power and justice. He explores the concept of criminalization as a cultural artifact and the ways in which it is influenced by socio-political location. Dr. Williams also examines the terminology of missionary and evangelism, highlighting the subversive nature of gospel proclamation. He emphasizes the need to challenge power structures and reevaluate perspectives in order to create a more just world. Dr. Jeremy L. Williams discusses his book and the importance of using antiquity to understand mass incarceration. He emphasizes the need to be faithful to Christian origins and to approach scripture with a hermeneutic of ignorance. Dr. Williams also explores the role of imagination in reimagining systems and linking criminalized peoples across time. He recommends reading Afrofuturist literature for fun and shares his thoughts on doom scrolling and dreaming better dreams.

In this conversation, Anthony Ellis discusses the concept of kina (envy/jealousy) in the Hebrew Bible. He explores the different interpretations and implications of kina, both in human relationships and in the context of divine jealousy. Ellis highlights the story of Joseph and his brothers as an example of envy among siblings and the moral lessons it conveys. He also delves into the theological significance of divine jealousy and its association with monotheism. Additionally, Ellis examines the concept of vicarious jealousy, where individuals feel jealousy on behalf of others, particularly in relation to God's jealousy for his people. This conversation explores the concept of divine jealousy in the Hebrew Bible and its linguistic nuances. The discussion delves into the prophetic vision of divine jealousy, the sticking point in the latest tradition, and the complexity of relationships and communication. It also highlights the long durée of Bible scriptures and the incredible variety in language. The importance of academic work on biblical texts and the history of jealousy and envy are also discussed. Recommended readings and resources are provided for further exploration. Further Reading On Envy and Jealousy: Ben-Ze’ev, A. 2000. The Subtlety of Emotions. Cambridge, MA. D’Arms, J. 2017. ‘Envy’, in E. N. Zalta (ed.) The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Spring 2017 Edition), https://plato.stanford.edu/archives/spr2017/entries/envy/ (accessed 15 March 2022). Ellis, B. A. 2023 ‘Envy, Jealousy and Class Conflict in Classical Athens: Φθόνος and the Manipulation of Unacceptable Emotions’, Transactions of the American Philological Association 153.1: 43–83. Hart, S. L., Legerstee, M. 2010. Handbook of Jealousy. Theory, Research, and Multidisciplinary Approaches. Malden, MA. Hupka, R. B. 1981. ‘Cultural Determinants of Jealousy’, Alternative Lifestyles 4: 310–56. Konstan, D. and Rutter, N. K. (eds) 2003. Envy, Spite, and Jealousy: The Rivalrous Emotions in Ancient Greece. Edinburgh. Protasi, S. 2021. The Philosophy of Envy. Cambridge. Salovey, P. (ed.) 1991. The Psychology of Jealousy and Envy. New York. Sanders, E. 2014. Envy and Jealousy in Classical Athens. A Socio-Psychological Approach. Oxford. Sissa, G. 2017. Jealousy: A Forbidden Passion. Cambridge. Smith, R. H. (ed.) 2008. Envy: Theory and Research. New York. Toohey, P. 2014. Jealousy. New Haven, CT. On Envy and Jealousy in the Bible, Judaism, and Christianity: Adkin, N. 1984. ‘Pride or Envy? Some Notes on the Reason the Fathers Give for the Devil’s Fall’, Augustiniana 34: 349–51. Brongers, H. A. 1963. ‘Der Eifer des Herrn Zebaoth’, Vetus Testamentum 13: 269–84. De Riva, R. 2021. ‘Jealousy in Akkadian Love Literature: Zarpanītu in the Divine Love Lyrics’, in S.-W. Hsu and J. Llop-Raduà S.-W (eds), The Expression of Emotions in Ancient Egypt and Mesapotamia. Leiden – Boston, 306–34. Elliott, J. H. 2007. ‘Envy, Jealousy, and Zeal in the Bible: Sorting Out the Social Differences and Theological Implications – No Envy for YHWH’, in R. B. Coote (ed.), To Break Every Yoke: Essays in Honor of Marvin L. Chaney. Sheffield, 344–64. Ellis, B. A. 2023 ‘The Rot of the Bones: קנאה (Jealousy/Envy) in the Hebrew Bible’, Journal of Biblical Literature 142.3: 385–408. Lang, B. 2011. ‘Le Dieu de l’Ancien Testament est-il un Dieu jaloux? Essai de réponse’, in H. Rouillard-Bonraisin (ed.), 159–71. Renaud, B. 1963. Je suis un Dieu jaloux: Évolution sémantique et signification théologique de qine'ah. Paris. Reuter, E. 1990. ‘qn’ ’, in Theologisches Wörterbuch zum Alten Testament vii: 51–62. Villareal, Erin. 2022. Jealousy in Context: The Social Implications of Emotions in the Hebrew Bible. Eisenbaum.

Rebecca Poe Hays, an assistant professor at Truett Seminary, discusses the intersection of trauma, remembrance, and healing in Psalm 78. She explores the genre of Hebrew poetry and how stories are conveyed in the Psalms. Hays highlights the importance of historical Psalms and their connection to the wisdom tradition. She draws parallels between trauma treatment methods and the structure of Psalm 78, emphasizing the significance of storytelling in trauma healing. Hays also discusses the role of the Psalms in building resilience and fostering a sense of community. In this conversation, Rebecca Poe Hays discusses the influence of scripture on the world and the importance of studying it. She emphasizes the complexity of scripture and the need to pay attention to its various genres. Rebecca also explores the use of scripture in addressing trauma and highlights the importance of honesty and humility in reading and interpreting ancient texts. She recommends books on trauma and biblical studies, as well as different translations and commentaries on the Psalms. Finally, Rebecca shares her reading preferences and recommends a variety of genres.

Elisa Uusimäki discusses the topic of travel and anxiety in early Jewish literature. She shares her background and research interests, including her focus on the figure of the wise person and the intersection of wisdom and travel. She explains how she defines and approaches anxiety in her article, drawing on psychological and affect studies. She discusses the texts she analyzes, including Tobit and the writings of Philo of Alexandria, and how they depict travel-related anxiety. Elisa also explores the societal and personal dimensions of travel in the ancient world and its relevance today. The conversation explores the motivation for the journey in Tobit and the gendered representation of anxiety and delves into the different ways Tobit and his wife manage their anxiety and the role of blessings and proactive actions. It then examines Philo's understanding of travel and the experiences of diaspora communities.

James McGrath is a religious studies professor and author of the book Christmaker: A Life of John the Baptist. In this conversation, McGrath explains how his interest in John the Baptist was sparked by his previous work on the Gospel of John and the Mandaeans, a group that emerged from followers of John the Baptist. He also challenges common misconceptions about John's appearance and lifestyle, highlighting the complexity of his family background and his role as a charismatic figure challenging the religious establishment. The conversation explores the foundational tradition of John the Baptist and his role in challenging the existing religious practices of his time. It delves into the connection between John and Jesus, the influence of the prophetic tradition, and the significance of baptism. The conversation also highlights the importance of understanding John the Baptist in order to gain a deeper understanding of Jesus and Christian origins. Recommended resources for further study are provided, along with a discussion on the author's approach to writing and the connection between his work and his personal interests.