It Means What It Means

Jared and Barbara Thiede discusses her book Male Friendship, Homosociality, and Women in the Hebrew Bible: Malignant Fraternities, exploring the concept of homosociality in biblical narratives, particularly among male characters. She reflects on the implications of these relationships in the context of contemporary issues surrounding toxic masculinity and gender dynamics. Thiede also examines the relationships of key biblical figures such as Judah, Hira, and David, and how these narratives can inform our understanding of masculinity today. Websites, books, and authors mentioned or recommended in this episode include The Shiloh Project, Ursula Vernon, Alix Harrow, Chronicles of Amber, Adrian Tchaikovsky, and Ursula K Le Guin. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Jared and Barbara Thiede discusses her book Male Friendship, Homosociality, and Women in the Hebrew Bible: Malignant Fraternities, exploring the concept of homosociality in biblical narratives, particularly among male characters. She reflects on the implications of these relationships in the context of contemporary issues surrounding toxic masculinity and gender dynamics. Thiede also examines the relationships of key biblical figures such as Judah, Hira, and David, and how these narratives can inform our understanding of masculinity today. Websites, books, and authors mentioned or recommended in this episode include The Shiloh Project, Ursula Vernon, Alix Harrow, Chronicles of Amber, Adrian Tchaikovsky, and Ursula K Le Guin. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

In this conversation, Jared and Tom de Bruin discuss Tom’s book Fan Fiction and Early Christian Writings: Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha and Canon. They consider the intersections of fan fiction and biblical texts, exploring how fan fiction can provide insights into the understanding of religious narratives. Tom delves into the concept of canon, the historical context of early Christian writings, and the complexities of textual ownership. Through contemporary examples, such as Anne Rice's Christ the Lord Series, de Bruin illustrates the ongoing dialogue between fiction and faith, emphasizing the fluidity of canonical texts and the emotional connections that drive fan engagement. Other works mentioned or recommended in this episode include Judeophobia and the New Testament: Texts and Contexts, The Grace of Kings, Unwind, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ’s Childhood Pal, and The Tyrant Philosophers. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Anthony Pinn discusses his book What Is African American Religion?, emphasizing that religion is fundamentally about the quest for meaning and complex subjectivity rather than adherence to specific doctrines or institutions. He argues that this quest is a shared human impulse that transcends racial and cultural boundaries, shaped by social contexts and experiences. The discussion also touches on the rise of individuals identifying as “nones” and how community engagement is evolving in the 21st century, highlighting the importance of understanding religion as a broader human experience. Recommendations in this episode include Terror and Triumph; The Interplay of Things; Slave Road; and Moses, Man of the Mountain. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Don’t panic! It’s Jared’s forty-second birthday and he invited his friend Chris Tilling back to discuss Tilling’s book Paul's Divine Christology, the nature of unconditional love in Paul's writings, and the complexities of intertextual continuity and discontinuity in Paul's theology. They also examine the importance of understanding the “weirdness” of Paul and the need to approach his writings with a fresh perspective, resisting the temptation to domesticate his message. Recommendations in this episode include Larry Hurtado, Matthew Novenson, Ruben Bühner, William Horbury, Crispin Fletcher-Louis, Jared Neusch, John Goldingay, Walter Brueggemann, Beyond Justification, Apocalypse Here, “Paul the Trinitarian,” Chris’ blog Chrisendom, and his chess podcast Chess Nut Bookcase. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Constantine Campbell discusses his book, Jesus v. Evangelicals: A Bilical Critique of a Wayward Movement with Jared. They delve into the quadrilateral of evangelicalism, focusing on the significance of activism, the role of institutions, and the challenges posed by celebrity culture within the church. Campbell critiques the political expression of activism and emphasizes the need for a holistic understanding of the gospel that includes the resurrection and social action. Recommendations in this episode include Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation and The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas are Setting Up a Generation for Failure. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

John Dunne is back to discuss the 1993 film The Judas Project with Jared. Their conversation explores narrative, character motivations, and the cultural and theological implications of its portrayal of Jesus, Peter, and Judas. They analyze the film's unique take on the story of Jesus in a contemporary setting, the motivations behind Judas' betrayal, and the film's overall quality and impact. The discussion also touches on the nostalgia associated with early 90s cinema and the film's earnest yet flawed execution. Recommendations in this episode include Assassin 33AD, The Next Quest for the Historical Jesus, and Jesus and the Forces of Death. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

In this conversation, Susan Hylen discusses book Finding Phoebe: What New Testament Women Were Really Like and her research on the roles and perceptions of women in the time when the New Testament was written. She highlights the historical context of women's property ownership, their social influence through patronage, and the virtues ascribed to them in ancient society. The discussion also delves into the complexities of speech and silence in relation to social hierarchies, emphasizing that women's roles were more nuanced than traditionally understood. Hylen emphasizes the importance of interpreting biblical texts with an awareness of their cultural background, encouraging readers to engage with scripture in a way that recognizes the complexities of women's voices and agency. Recommendations in this episode include, Richard P Saller, Nijay Gupta, Niall Williams, and Rebecca Makkai. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Nadya Williams discusses her book Mothers, Children, and the Body Politic: Ancient Christianity and the Recovery of Human Dignity. She emphasizes the importance of unconditional love, the priceless nature of every individual, and the need for community support in times of suffering. The dialogue explores the economic implications of caregiving, the value of the elderly, and how Christianity provides a counter-narrative to modern societal values that often devalue life. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the significance of neighborly love and community in fostering hope and support. Nadya’s recommendations include Wendell Berry, Hannah’s Children, and Muppets in Moscow. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Yii-Jan Lin discusses her article “Our Cloud of Witnesses: A Writing of Hebrews 11:1-12:2 in Memory of the Asian and Asian American Women Killed 16 March 2021.” She reflects on the impact of immigration, the concept of citizenship, and the importance of honoring Asian American activism. Lin challenges dominant interpretations of scripture and emphasizes the need for new methodologies in biblical studies, advocating for a more inclusive and contextual approach to understanding biblical texts. The discussion also touches on the need for community support against misinformation targeting Asian Americans and the broader implications of citizenship in scholarship. Recommendations in this conversation include Stop AAPI Hate, Erika Lee, and Mae Ngai. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Amber Dillon discusses her doctoral dissertation The Archetypal Witness: John the Baptist and Composite Intertextuality in the Fourth Gospel. Dillon explores the significance of John the Baptist in the prologue of the fourth gospel, the evangelist's intentions, and the complex relationship between the Gospel and Jewish identity. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the Gospel of John within its Jewish context and the implications of its anti-Jewish rhetoric. Recommendations in this episode include, The Gospel of John and the Future of Israel, Christmaker, How to Study the Bible’s Use of the Bible, Invitation to the Septuagint, Introducing the Pseudepigrapha of Second Temple Judaism, The Idea of Israel in Second Temple Judaism, Communities in Dispute: Current Scholarship on the Jahannine Epistles. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

In this conversation, Kyle Rouse, a PhD candidate at Baylor University, discusses his article “Conquests Need Monuments and Monuments Need Inscriptions: The Textual Location of the Mount Ebal Altar Episode in Joshua.” He explores the significance of the Masoretic text, authorship debates, and the cultural conventions surrounding military conquests in ancient texts. Rouse emphasizes the importance of understanding the historical context and narrative coherence of biblical literature, as well as engaging with scholarly conversations on textual traditions. Kyle’s recommendations include Tracking the Master Scribe, “Monumental Inscription and the Ritual Representation of War,” Assyria: The Imperial Mission, Text and Ritual in the Pentateuch A Systematic and Comparative Approach, Harry Potter, Red Rising, Dune. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Jason Borges discusses his article “Phoebe, a Host of Christian Travelers: The Meaning of Πϱοστάτις in Romans 16:2.” He explores the role of hospitality in the ancient world, particularly how figures like Phoebe served as hosts for Christian travelers. The discussion delves into the concept of patronage, the reciprocal nature of relationships in ancient hospitality, and the institution of Proxenia, which facilitated travel and support among communities. Borges emphasizes the importance of understanding these dynamics to grasp the social fabric of early Christianity. Jason’s recommentations include Edwin Judge, Proxeny and Polis: Institutional Networks in the Ancient Greek World, and Lionel Casson. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Shalom E. Holtz, Professor of Bible at Yeshiva University, discusses his article “The Problems of Land Possession and the Meaning of Isaiah 60:21.” The discussion explores the legal implications of land possession during the Neo-Babylonian and Persian periods, the role of imperial powers, and the theological perspectives surrounding law and land ownership. He emphasizes the vision of restoration in Isaiah 60 and its relevance to contemporary interpretations, including the utopian ideals present in ancient Israel. Recommendations from this episode include Praying Legally; A Prophet Reads Scripture: Allusion in Isaiah 40-66; and the collected works of Ken Follet and Charles Dickens, respectively. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Matthew Monger; Associate professor of Near Eastern Languages and Literatures MF Norwegian School of Theology, Religion, and Society; discusses his article “The Book of the Daughters of Adam in the Gelasian Decree.” He explains the decree's role in establishing a canon of scripture and introduces the Book of the Daughters of Adam, a text mentioned in the decree but lacking historical evidence. The discussion delves into the Book of Jubilees, its historical context, and the importance of critical editions in understanding biblical texts. Monger also explores the nature of textual variance in manuscripts and the intentions of scribes in their copying practices, ultimately concluding that many scribes may not have fully understood the texts they were working with. Matt also has a YouTube channel called The Bible was Written Backwards. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Brandon Hurlbert (one of the hosts of The Two Cities podcast) discusses his article “Deconstructing the Downward Spiral: Anthology as Coherence in the Book of Judges,” arguing that it should be viewed as an anthology of narratives rather than a unified story depicting a downward spiral of moral decay. He explores the editorial processes behind ancient texts, the complexity of biblical narratives, and the presence of humor and irony within the stories. Hurlbert also evaluates the common downward spiral thesis through a series of tests, ultimately challenging its validity and emphasizing the interpretive freedom readers have when approaching these texts. Brandon recommends that listeners read Andrew Judd’s Modern Genre Theory: An Introduction for Biblical Studies. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

Caryn Tambor-Rosenau discusses her article “Embracing the Jewess: Reading Gender and Ethnicity in Judith with the Belle Juive.” She contrasts literary analysis with historical criticism, emphasizing the importance of understanding the text's function rather than solely its historical background. Caryn and Jared explore the character of Judith from the biblical text, discussing her independence, the implications of her choices, and the feminist interpretations of her story. They delve into the historical context of Judith's narrative, examining how different interpretations have emerged over time, particularly in relation to Jewish identity and anti-Jewish sentiments. Caryn introduces the concept of feminist exegesis, emphasizing the importance of considering women's voices in biblical literature. The discussion also touches on the subversive nature of Judith's character and the broader implications of her story in contemporary society. Finally, Caryn shares resources for further reading on Judith and related topics. Check out Caryn’s book, Women in Drag: Gender and Performance in the Hebrew Bible and Early Jewish Lierature. Caryn’s book recommendations: Jennifer Caplan, Samantha Pickette, Sander Gillman, When the Angels Left the Old Country, and Zero Star, Do Not Recommend: A Novel. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

In this conversation, David Moffitt, a professor of New Testament and early Christianity at the University of Saint Andrews, discusses his book Rethinking the Atonement and explores the representation of atonement in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the complexities of sacrifice and reconciliation, the diversity of perspectives within the New Testament, and the significance of Jesus as a high priest in the context of a heavenly liturgy. Douglass Moo Commentary, Three-Body Problem. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon.

In this podcast episode, Jared interviews Claire Mesick, an assistant professor of New Testament at Calvin University, discussing her recent article “Death and Salvation in Paul and Ancient Judaism (1 Corinthians 5:5).” The conversation delves into the complexities of Paul's writings, particularly the concepts of flesh and spirit, the implications of handing someone over to Satan, and the relationship between suffering, death, and salvation in both Pauline and rabbinic contexts. Claire presents various scholarly interpretations of the passage, highlighting the theological nuances and the historical context of early Christianity and Judaism. If you want to support the podcast financially, go to patreon.com/ItMeansWhatItMeansPodcast. Thanks for your support!

In this conversation, Jared and Michael Kochenash explore the complexities of historical narratives, particularly in relation to the Gospels. They discuss the spectrum of historiography, the role of reading communities, and the importance of understanding the motivations behind the narratives. The conversation also delves into the challenges of chronology, the nature of censuses in the ancient world, and ethical considerations surrounding redacted citations in biblical studies. Michael shares insights into his research and offers recommendations for further reading, while also touching on personal interests in literature and children's books. Check out Michael’s book Roman Self-Representation and the Lukan Kingdom of God and his two fiction recommendations: Demon Copperhead and Trust. If you are interested in hearing episodes a week before they are released for free, you can support the podcast for $5 a month on Patreon. For those of you who would like to support victims of sexual abuse Michael and Jared recommend The National Center for Missing and exploited Children and the Rape Abuse Incest National Network, respectively.