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Another Fine Mezz

Business & Economics Podcasts

A podcast about the global securitization markets from GlobalCapital where we speak to senior industry figures about what is happening in the world of asset backed securities


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A podcast about the global securitization markets from GlobalCapital where we speak to senior industry figures about what is happening in the world of asset backed securities






From Berlin to Miami

This week's episode of Another Fine Mezz was something of an international tour with a wrap of the annual TSI Congress in Berlin and a discussion about the upcoming ABS East conference in Miami. European ABS reporter George Smith was in Berlin last week and with the help of European CLO reporter (and German national) Victoria Thiele, discussed why this year's conference had a distinctly political tone. Meanwhile, Victoria talked through her scoop on Man GLG's return to CLO management and how CLO mezzanine investors are urging caution as arguments around documentation heats up. Finally, with IMN and FIIN's (the Fixed Income Investor Network) ABS East 2023 conference in Miami under three weeks away, Tom was joined by two guests to get the inside track. Adam Grainger, director of operations for FIIN and investor & issuer relations at IMN, and Joe Lau, chairman of FIIN and president and chief investment officer at LordCap discussed why Miami is the ultimate autumn venue.


Tiers, tiers and more tiers



Full steam ahead for European ABS

With GlobalCapital's CLO reporter Victoria Thiele taking in the last of the summer holidays, remaining podcast presenters George Smith and Tom Lemmon were left considering taking the show in a new creative direction. Away from team politics, the European ABS market continues to fire. Curiously, it seems the mezzanine notes are getting considerably hotter than the seniors. We try to explain why. Adding to the momentum, the French and German finance ministers publicly called for securitization to feature more prominently in the European capital market ecosystem. Whether this leads to any action any time soon, remains unclear. Finally, Another Fine Mezz welcomed its first guest of the new series as Katie Prideaux, director of sustainable investment analytics product at LSEG Analytics spoke about the evolution of ESG as it becomes an ever larger consideration for market participants.


No rest for the wicked

Bleary-eyed, European ABS reporter George Smith returned for this week's episode of Another Fine Mezz after the birth of his first child three weeks ago. However, there was no gentle easing in as the European securitization market kicked into gear with a flurry of issuance. In particular, prime UK RMBS continued its resurgence with Principality Building Society yet another UK issuer that was back in the fold. In CLOs, it's also getting hectic, although not quite to the same degree. However, Victoria Thiele discussed how while issuance might be picking up for now, terrible arbitrage is likely to mean that any windows are narrow. Finally, with the podcast trio unable to "milk" George's fatherhood any more, as one market participant said to Victoria, the team looked for new areas of discussion.


Green RMBS leads the pride

At one point last week, Another Fine Mezz host Tom Lemmon worried he might be recording a podcast all alone as his colleagues got their last bits of summer holidays (and paternity leave) completed. However, CLO reporter Victoria Thiele was on hand to save the day. It was a timely intervention as the European ABS market reopened with 8 deals entering the pipeline last week. Santander kicked things off, pricing its second of the year from the prime UK RMBS shelf, Holmes Master Issuer 2023-2. But stealing the limelight was ING's Green Lion, a green-labeled prime Dutch RMBS. A welcome step for ESG-securitizations, but whether there are signs of a meaningful market beginning to grow is unclear. And finally in CLOs, Onex's head of credit Ronnie Jaber sat down with GlobalCapital to discuss his expectations for the rest of 2023.


Isn't SRT lovely

Another Fine Mezz remains only two thirds full as European ABS reporter George Smith enjoys fatherhood and sleep deprivation. Thankfully, securitization deputy editor Tom Lemmon was kept company by European CLO reporter Victoria Thiele. European Significant risk transfer (SRT) is set for another record year in 2023 after various regulatory disasters were averted. Meanwhile in the US, there is hope that banks will soon come to a compromise with regulators. Onex priced its first European CLO of the year, and was the first in the region to split the single 'B' tranche. However, the slightly strange ratings revealed a mystery investor on the senior notes.


The equity strikes back

For this week's episode of Another Fine Mezz, securitization deputy editor Tom Lemmon is kept company by European CLO reporter Victoria Thiele as European ABS reporter George Smith is off to become a Dad. In the US, specialist CLO equity funds believe they're "winning the argument" as limited partners (LPs) who invest in the manager-retained equity (known as captive funds) become frustrated at squeezed returns. In European CLOs, triple-A investors are also frustrated. They're looking to limit the power of CLO managers that are happy to be dragged along into amend and extend deals, by beefing up the legal documents before investing in a CLO. And finally, the Financial Conduct Authority's (FCA) 707 page document outlining its plans for the UK's post-Brexit securitization regulation is still being digested. The question is how the UK securitization market will look once its implemented.


Ain't no mountain (of debt) high enough

For this week's episode of Another Fine Mezz, securitization deputy editor Tom Lemmon returned from his holidays (and golfing misery) to host, while all in the GlobalCapital stable are hoping this episode will be ABS reporter George Smith's last before he takes a breather to become a father. Patrick Drahi, founder of telecom and media giant Altice tried to calm the nerves among CLO managers (and other obligors) last week, as the crisis around the company's debt and corruption allegations continues. With European CLOs exposed to around €4bn of Altice's debt, our reporters discuss the pervading sense of concern over said debt pile — and the wider impact it could have on the European CLO market. The European securitization market has shrunk dramatically relative to the US since the global financial crisis in 2008. As the most battle-worn market participants are gradually out of the market to pastures new, there are concerns that their wisdom is being lost — and not being replaced. We ask whether this leaves the industry short on crisis experience. Finally, the latest hot topic in debt markets has turned our structured credit team onto ontological investigation: what, exactly, is the difference between a private credit CLO or middle market CLO? It's not clear, and that's a problem for the market and investors.


New power for the PRA, new life for CLOs

Regular podcast host Tom Lemmon was away for another week, but Victoria Thiele and George Smith held the fort and put together a brand-new episode of Another Fine Mezz. The UK government is handing the power to make securitization rules over to the FCA and PRA. Market participants are pleased by the prospect of speedier processes and speculate about life after EU regulation. Apollo plots the first European CLO reset in a year. A dozen other issuers that priced at spreads above 200bp in the terrible market last year could follow. Last but not least, an odd detail of business credit card securitization reminded George of Victoria’s story about middle market CLOs two weeks ago.


Japanese whales and US gatecrashers

One week into the new and improved second life of Another Fine Mezz, host Tom Lemmon is taking a well-deserved holiday. Markets never stop, of course, and so Victoria Thiele and George Smith sat down to discuss the biggest stories in European Securitization, as well as some interesting bits and pieces that were not featured in GlobalCapital articles this week. Bankers and investors expect more European SRT deals by US banks, who were held back by regulatory uncertainty in the past. Appetite for US collateral straight from the market leaders is there – if the price is right. It looks like an Asian investor took the entire AAA tranche of Investcorp’s Harvest CLO. Some market participants now dream of tighter AAA spreads if Japanese investors return, others dread their demands for bondholder-friendly deal documentation. Last but not least, securitization specialists stepped in to help George find an appropriate name for his soon-to-be-launched 18 year project of raising Europe’s best financial journalist.


Return of the Mezz

After a long hiatus, GlobalCapital's dedicated securitization podcast, Another Fine Mezz makes its return. The podcast also underwent a mini makeover, with two more reporters joining Tom Lemmon to discuss the biggest stories of the week in European securitization. Middle-market CLOs in Europe are struggling to get off the ground with the companies behind the loans often too small to meet the criteria for the big three rating agencies, Moody's, S&P and Fitch. However, UK private lender ThinCats is still hoping to press ahead with a transaction soon. Meanwhile, social-labelled RMBS deals are already exceedingly rare, and creating a market for them in the UK needs to consider the systemic issues the mortgage market faces before being able to truly consider an RMBS as social. Finally, a visit to Edinburgh leads to the first Another Fine Mezz scoop.


Viva SF Vegas

GlobalCapital's dedicated securitization podcast, Another Fine Mezz, makes its long awaited return as market participants from across the world gather for SF Vegas 2023. Michael Bright, the Structured Finance Association's CEO, joined GlobalCapital's Tom Lemmon to discuss what to see at the conference, what the tone will be after the rollercoaster year of 2022, and who he's most looking forward to hearing from on the panels.


The end of the CLO party

Welcome to the second episode of Another Fine Mezz, GlobalCapital’s new podcast about securitization where we explore the most pressing issues in the market with some its most senior figures. In this episode we take a dive into the CLO markets in the US and Europe. 2021 was a bumper year for CLOs with record issuance in both markets. 2022 however, has been a rather more chastening experience, particularly in Europe as inflation and the war in Ukraine hit global markets. So, is the CLO party over? Will spreads drift wider still? How will CLOs fare in a recession? We asked Tyler Wallace from Fair Oaks Capital, Tim Thranfrom Bluerock, and Sandeep Chana from S&P Global where the market is heading.


Barcelona: it was the first time that we met

Welcome to Another Fine Mezz, GlobalCapital’s new podcast about securitization where we explore the most pressing issues in the market with some of its most senior figures. Global ABS, the biggest securitization conference in Europe, is returning to Barcelona on June 14 for the first time since 2019. Everyone who’s anyone in European securitization will be there and so in anticipation of the event, we asked Owen Muller from NatWest Markets, Peter Cui from Natixis and Merryn Craske from Morgan Lewis what they were most looking forward to and what the big discussion points would be. While the sun, sand and sangria of Barcelona will no doubt be a welcome change of scene for many, we look into what will be the key themes at the conference, how it might reflect and affect market activity and how to get your mitts on the best swag from the exhibition stands.