The Lawyer's Edge

Charlie Jimerson is the founder and CEO of Jimerson Birr, a Florida-based business law firm with a national reputation for litigation, regulatory, and transactional work. He's also a U.S. Air Force veteran, a board-certified construction law attorney, and a widely recognized leader in the legal and business communities. Under his leadership, the firm has been repeatedly honored for its workplace culture, growth, and client service while representing various businesses of all sizes and scales as their go-to counsel for legal matters and comprehensive legal expertise, both inside and outside the courtroom. From drafting and enforcing contracts, providing grounded executive-level advice, and collecting money owed, Charlie’s extensive experience spans all phases of litigation, including alternative dispute resolution, settlement negotiations, and complex commercial cases. His career is distinguished by a rich tapestry of accomplishments that mirror his unwavering commitment to securing favorable outcomes for his clients and reflect a focus on service, quality, and results. Prior to founding Jimerson Birr, Charlie honed his skills and expertise at prominent Jacksonville-based commercial litigation and construction law boutique law firms. He currently resides in Ortega with his wife, Ashley, their two children, and their Italian Greyhound dog, Olive. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LAW FIRM GROWTH As a young lawyer, Charlie Jimerson had his pick of opportunities and began his career at a traditional Biglaw firm. But it didn’t take long for him to feel disenchanted with what he saw—an industry clinging to outdated models that didn’t truly serve clients. Not even four years into practice, Charlie founded Jimerson Birr as a values-driven law firm committed to doing things differently. He believed law firms could grow by focusing on service, quality, and results instead of billable hours and burnout. That conviction shaped his approach to building a practice centered on client needs, predictable pricing, and strong culture. By replacing outdated habits with clear processes and accountability, Charlie set out to prove that sustainable growth is possible without sacrificing relationships or outcomes. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise talks with Charlie about how rethinking the billable hour can fuel law firm growth. He shares how subscription pricing and disciplined processes create more value for clients, how AI can enhance efficiency without replacing human judgment, and why culture and leadership are essential to long-term success. Charlie also explains why he sees pressure as a privilege and why “the way it’s always been done” is the most dangerous mindset holding firms back. 2:06 - The inspiration for Jimerson Birr’s founding and identity 5:21 - Problems with the billable hours model of many legal organizations 9:12 - What’s necessary for the legal industry to start retreating from the billable hour crutch 14:37 – Value-based and subscription pricing around four core areas and three package tiers 21:15 – Why there should still be room made for the billable hour when necessary 24:56 - Three biggest things learned from client surveys that impacted changes within the firm 27:43 - How Charlie uses AI to enhance his organization’s practice 32:20 - Hiring principles and cultural philosophy of Jimerson Birr 34:45 – Why Charlie views pressure as a privilege and its impact on his choices 37:28 - Essentials to focus on and the mentality law firm leaders need to reject so the industry can evolve MENTIONED IN RETHINKING THE BILLABLE HOUR FOR SUSTAINABLE LAW FIRM GROWTH Jimerson Birr | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Youtube Follow Charlie B. Jimerson on LinkedIn Process! How Discipline and Consistency Will Set You and Your Business Free by Mike Paton and Lisa González Books by Gino Wickman Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer's Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS...

Aaron Y. Strauss is one of the leading legal advisors in the commercial real estate industry, providing insight and guidance on billions of dollars' worth of transactions during his career. As founder and managing partner of A.Y. Strauss, he has positioned the firm as one of the region’s most respected legal organizations for commercial real estate owners, lenders, and sponsors, serving the needs of its clients with utmost care, integrity, and transparency. Aaron is responsible for establishing the firm’s long-term strategy and vision, overseeing a culture of excellence and respect that recruits, retains, and supports a nationally-recognized team of attorneys and business professionals. A dedicated dealmaker and connector, he strives to identify and facilitate commercial real estate and other opportunities for clients and valued contacts. In 2021, he launched The Dealmakers’ Edge with A.Y. Strauss podcast, highlighting the stories, successes, and struggles behind major commercial real estate investors. Prior to founding A.Y. Strauss, Aaron practiced for several years at an international law firm in New York and a prominent New Jersey-based law firm. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT BUILDING AN ENTREPRENEURIAL LAW FIRM What happens when you get off the beaten path to build something new? It takes an ambitious mind to forego the traditional path of building a legal practice to build a business platform with national reach. Aaron Strauss left Biglaw to found and manage A.Y. Strauss, LLC, a rapidly growing entrepreneurial law firm that represents clients in multiple practice areas. Under his leadership, the organization has earned a reputation for delivering thoughtful, strategic counsel with the responsiveness and care of a boutique practice. He’s also developed a well-earned reputation for his devotion to connecting and creating growth opportunities for others. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise speaks with Aaron about leading a law firm by prioritizing hiring the right people, fostering a strong culture, expanding practice areas based on client needs, and engaging in practices to manage the stresses and complexities of leadership. 2:15 - The driver behind more than 40% growth in Aaron’s firm over the past year 4:58 - The major challenge of recruiting and retaining legal talent 8:49 - Natural rainmakers and relationship nurturers as both being critical to a firm’s success 11:29 - Addition of immigration, cannabis, and family law as new practice areas 15:30 - How Aaron balances his different roles and the most rewarding aspects of the job 20:38 - The challenges of leadership in relationship management and decision-making 26:27 - How mental resilience helps Aaron manage the stresses of his job 29:03 - Self-practices that Aaron uses to stay grounded and effective as a leader 33:14 - The value of shifting focus from “I” to “We” and pausing to acknowledge accomplishments 35:36 - Insights and influences from guests on Aaron’s podcast, The Dealmakers’ Edge MENTIONED IN The Entrepreneurial Law Firm: Building a Platform, Not Just a Practice A.Y. Strauss, LLC | LinkedIn The Dealmakers’ Edge Podcast | “Leadership Lessons for Dealmakers with Elise Holtzman” Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer's Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Jeffrey Bast is a nationally respected attorney with over 30 years of experience in insolvency and commercial litigation. He represents debtors, creditors, trustees, and business stakeholders in workouts, reorganizations, and bankruptcy-related litigation, with a strong focus on avoiding bankruptcy when possible and guiding clients through complex financial transactions and restructuring. Jeff completed two federal bankruptcy clerkships and rose to the level of equity partner at two international law firms. He brings both legal and business acumen to each matter, with deep experience in bankruptcy sales, acquisitions, and financing. Jeff is frequently invited to speak and has been consistently recognized by Chambers USA, Best Lawyers in America, Florida Super Lawyers, Martindale-Hubbell, and the South Florida Legal Guide. Brett Amron is a nationally recognized litigator with over 25 years of experience in complex business and bankruptcy litigation, representing fiduciaries, trustees, creditors, and companies in high-stakes matters. A pioneer in utilizing contingency fee structures in insolvency cases, Brett has secured tens of millions of dollars in recoveries for creditors. He served as a prosecutor and later as a partner in a major bankruptcy litigation group. Brett is consistently recognized by Chambers USA, Best Lawyers in America, Florida Super Lawyers, and the National Law Journal. He also serves on committees for the ABA and Federal Bar Association. Together, Jeff and Brett are the founding partners of Bast Amron LLP, a nationally recognized boutique law firm based in Miami, Florida. The firm focuses on commercial litigation, insolvency, bankruptcy, and related business disputes, representing debtors, creditors, fiduciaries, and trustees in complex matters nationwide. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT BUILDING A LAW FIRM PARTNERSHIP THAT LASTS Jeff and Brett didn’t know each other when they each launched solo practices in 2008. By 2009, they had formed a partnership that has now lasted 16 years. What started as two lawyers drinking from a firehose during the financial crisis became something much bigger—a thriving law firm with a national reputation. Along the way, they’ve built a resilient firm culture, navigated economic cycles, and adapted to a shifting legal market. Their approach to law firm leadership, talent retention, and long-term growth shows how intentional communication and shared values can sustain a partnership over decades. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise speaks with Jeff and Brett about the founding decisions that shaped their identity, how they’ve maintained trust and communication for more than 16 years, and what it takes to run a law firm partnership that’s built to last. 3:07 - The founding values that have guided them for 16 years 8:07 - How they built trust when they barely knew each other 14:25 - The weekly communication rituals that keep them aligned 16:20 - Being open to conversations and opportunities for growth 20:00 - Learning to run a business through EO, the Entrepreneurs' Organization 22:49 - Core drivers for evaluating opportunities and staying focused 24:18 - The culture they're passionate about protecting 28:54 - Their "hire slow, fire fast" approach to talent 34:33 - Lessons about staying resilient through changing markets 39:59 - Why they still feel like they're building a startup after 16 years 43:08 - The genesis of their podcast and the Business Advantage Forum 47:53 - Brett's advice on patience and listening 48:34 - Jeff's philosophy on trust as the foundation of leadership MENTIONED IN BUILDING A LAW FIRM PARTNERSHIP THAT LASTS Bast Amron LLP The Practice Podcast Entrepreneurs' Organization (EO) Managing Partner Forum Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer's Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month...

Lexlee Overton is a former trial lawyer who spent more than 30 years in the courtroom before choosing a different path. After experiencing firsthand how the legal profession can wear lawyers down, she founded Mind Over Law to help lawyers move beyond burnout and lead with greater clarity, resilience, and purpose. Today, she works with both individual lawyers and legal teams using a science-based approach that combines mindfulness, emotional intelligence, and practical leadership tools to build healthier law firms with better performance. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LAWYER WELL-BEING AND HIGH-PERFORMING TEAMS The legal profession loves to reward hustle, grind it out, power through, keep your head down and just get the work done. But what if the real power comes from doing things differently? Lexlee Overton spent decades playing by those rules until she realized something had to change. After 30 years in the courtroom, a health crisis at age 30 made her question everything about how lawyers are supposed to work. She founded Mind Over Law because she believes lawyers can be healthier, happier people and still do excellent work. Now she works with individual lawyers and legal teams, teaching them that energy management is way more important than time management. She's discovered that when leaders work on themselves first, they naturally start building better teams. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise speaks with Lexlee about why that "badge of honor" mentality around overwork is actually making lawyers less powerful, what happens when teams are chronically depleted, and how law firm leaders can build the kind of culture that actually attracts and keeps good people. 2:32 - Lexlee's personal breaking point and wake-up call 5:22 - The changing attitudes toward mindfulness in law 9:59 - Warning signs lawyers ignore before burnout hits 12:51 - Simple practices for skeptical, hard-driving lawyers 16:06 - The neuroscience of fight-or-flight in legal practice 18:32 - The statistics on lawyer mental health and malpractice 20:36 - Reframing the "lose your edge" mentality 23:15 - Why law firm leaders should care about well-being initiatives 26:41 - Using biofeedback to demonstrate coherency 29:12 - The one leadership habit Lexlee would change overnight 30:58 - Emotional intelligence in high-performing legal teams 37:16 - Getting started with culture change 40:04 - The curse of knowledge insight MENTIONED IN BEYOND BURNOUT: BUILDING HIGH-PERFORMING LEGAL TEAMS THROUGH WELL-BEING Mind Over Law | LinkedIn American Bar Association (ABA) study on lawyer depression and substance abuse Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer's Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Ken Vrana is a Senior Director at Western Alliance’s Juris Banking Group. He specializes in crafting customized capital solutions for law firms, alternative legal service providers, and legal tech companies. With a deep expertise in complex banking relationships, he provides his clients with in-depth guidance on operating and fiduciary account setup and ongoing management, including advising on fraud mitigation tactics, advanced payables, and receivable services to streamline overall firm operations. With over two decades of banking experience, Ken serves as a trusted advisor to stakeholders across the legal community and regularly leverages his extensive network to build meaningful connections. His unmatched dedication to navigating clients’ transactional and credit banking needs with ease underscores his long-standing commitment to legal professionals nationwide. Prior to joining Western Alliance, he had significant tenures at Capital One and Citizens Bank, where he helped clients optimize their operations, drive growth, and enhance profitability. Ken received his Bachelor of Arts from Mount Saint Mary College. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LAW FIRM BANKING AND FINANCIAL STRATEGY Most lawyers master the practice of law but struggle with the business side. From managing cash flow to protecting client funds from cybercrime, the financial realities of running a law firm present challenges most lawyers were never trained to handle. Ken Vrana works specifically with law firms to help them make smarter financial decisions and avoid common pitfalls. He sees firsthand how smaller firms are often targeted by fraudsters because they lack the robust protection systems of larger firms, and how many firms leave money on the table by not optimizing their payment processes or banking relationships. From startup firms hanging their shingle to established practices pursuing growth through mergers, Ken shares practical insights on choosing the right banking partners, setting up proper fraud protection, and why the relationship with your banker might be more important than you think. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Ken about protecting your firm's funds, streamlining cash flow, and why treating your banker as a trusted advisor could be one of the smartest business decisions you make. 1:51 - Banking challenges facing large and smaller firms 6:23 - The benefits of using specialized legal banking over a local bank branch 9:43 - Common mistakes by law firms in their banking and financial management choices 14:52 - Guidance for new law firms to start on a solid footing with legal banking 19:21 - Why legal banks like Juris see startup firms as valuable clients 21:56 - Considerations for law firms pursuing growth 23:53 - Culture mismatches as a leading cause of merger failures 27:17 - Players who should be involved in your firm’s growth or merger 29:53 - Reasons for having multiple banking relationships 32:19 - The importance of regularly re-evaluating if a banking relationship is a good fit 35:40 - Large firms’ lack of immunity to financial management problems, despite having more resources 37:24 - The value of banking relationships and understanding their importance MENTIONED IN BANKING AND FINANCIAL STRATEGY FOR LAW FIRMS THAT WANT TO GROW Connect with Ken on LinkedIn Western Alliance Bank | LinkedIn Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer's Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. If you are interested in either participating in the...

Kirsten Branigan was facing an existential crisis. Working at a large New Jersey law firm with young children, she felt the rubber meeting the road in a significant way. She couldn't do everything she wanted to do with her family while meeting all the firm's requirements. Instead of just accepting the situation, Kirsten made two bold decisions. She started her own employment law firm built around flexibility and empathy. And when she heard that the New Jersey Women Lawyers Association was dying out because "women of your generation don't care about these issues," she decided to prove that wrong by leading the effort to revitalize the organization. Twenty years later, Kirsten's firm is thriving as a refuge for women lawyers, and that "dying" organization now draws over 700 people to its annual gala. As someone currently conducting research with Rutgers University on women's advancement in the legal profession, she has insights on what's actually changing for women lawyers and what isn't. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Kirsten about building a law firm culture that works for women lawyers, the challenges that persist across generations, and her advice for creating change: Build an Army. 3:24 - Why Kirsten left Big Law to start her own firm after an existential crisis 5:51 - The values and culture Kirsten built into her firm from day one 9:02 - How to maintain firm ideals while dealing with business pressures 11:19 - The story of revitalizing the New Jersey Women Lawyers Association 16:03 - Current challenges women face in the legal profession based on Rutgers research 23:16 - Positive shifts and trends for women in law 28:05 - The mental health crisis in the legal profession and available resources 30:31 - Understanding generational differences and approaching them with empathy 32:40 - What lawyers can do to make the profession better for everyone 38:36 - Kirsten's advice for creating lasting change: Build an Army MENTIONED IN CREATING LAW FIRM CULTURE THAT WORKS FOR WOMEN LAWYERS KS Branigan Law PC | LinkedIn New Jersey Women Lawyers Association | LinkedIn NAMWOLF New Jersey Lawyers Assistance Program Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer's Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Candisse Williamson is a highly accomplished General Counsel known for her creative deal-making and extensive legal expertise across the entertainment and corporate sectors. After graduating from Northwestern Law, she refined her corporate law skills, with a focus on M&A and private equity, at prestigious firms including Paul Weiss and King & Spalding. Her career then transitioned to entertainment, where she served as VP of Business and Legal Affairs at The Madison Square Garden Company, notably as lead attorney for the renowned Christmas Spectacular Starring the Radio City Rockettes. Later, as General Counsel at Skybound Entertainment, Candisse built the company’s legal department from the ground up, overseeing all transactions in film, TV, and gaming. She is now the GC of Hartbeat Productions, actor and comedian Kevin Hart's media company. In this role, she established the legal department and now drives strategic deal-making across film, TV, audio, live events, and branded content, all while serving as a key member of the executive team. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT BUILDING LEGAL TEAMS AND MANAGING OUTSIDE COUNSEL Most lawyers follow predictable career paths, but some find themselves in industries where the landscape shifts constantly. Candisse Williamson made the transition from corporate M&A at top firms to building legal departments in entertainment companies, where deal structures evolve rapidly and traditional contracts often don't fit. As General Counsel at Hartbeat, Kevin Hart's media company, Candisse has learned that success requires more than legal expertise. She's built two legal departments from the ground up, developed strategies for working effectively with outside counsel, and discovered that understanding the business is often more important than perfecting the legal details. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Candisse about her journey from Big Law to entertainment, how she approaches building and managing legal teams, and practical advice for lawyers looking to work with entertainment companies. 2:34 - Why Candisse wanted a legal career and her transition into entertainment law 5:30 - The biggest challenge for Candisse as VP/General Counsel 8:06 - How Candisse built Hartbeat’s legal department from the ground up 11:09 - Two main purposes of outside counsel and how Candisse maintains relationships 13:56 - Candisse’s philosophy about handling difficult conversations with outside counsel 16:52 - How you can rise above the crowded field and grow a book of business as a private practice lawyer 23:18 - Why Candisse emphasizes diversity in her staffing decisions 25:43 - Challenges in the constantly evolving world of entertainment and media 30:03 - Candisse’s personality and adaptability as an attorney 33:53 - Highly critical advice for in-house counsel MENTIONED IN STRATEGY AND TALENT: HOW ONE GENERAL COUNSEL BUILDS LEGAL TEAMS AND CHOOSES OUTSIDE COUNSEL Hartbeat | LinkedIn | Instagram Laugh Out Loud Network: YouTube | TikTok | Instagram | Facebook | Snapchat | Twitter/X Anthony Desimone | Making AI Work For Your Law Firm Without Compromising Security or Excellence Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Darin Klemchuk is the CEO of Klemchuk PLLC, a leading litigation, intellectual property, and business law firm based in Dallas, Texas. Klemchuk focuses his practice on IP litigation (patents, trademarks, copyrights, and trade secrets), IP enforcement and anti-counterfeiting programs, and IP strategy. He helps clients build market share and block competitors through intellectual property law. Darin is also the co-founder of Engage Workspace for Lawyers, an executive suite built by and for lawyers. He writes and speaks about human performance optimization, marketing and business development, leadership, entrepreneurship, law firm culture, and intellectual property law–all designed to encourage others to rethink what it means to be a lawyer, business owner, and leader in today’s legal profession and beyond. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LAW FIRM LEADERSHIP Most lawyers follow the traditional path of making partner, building a book, and climbing the ladder. But what happens when you're wired differently? When the conventional approach to practicing law feels fundamentally wrong for who you are as a person and leader? Darin Klemchuk faced exactly this crossroads. With a stable Big Law job, a second child on the way, and zero portable business, he made what most would consider a crazy decision. He walked away from partnership to build something better. Twenty years later, he's proven that leading from within can create strong results in both law and life. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Darin about his journey from Big Law to entrepreneurship, his 62-minute plank hold experience, why the "platinum rule" works better than the golden rule for leaders, and how personal growth became the foundation for his firm's success. 2:06 - Darin’s “Jerry Maguire” moment of launching his firm and how he got his first clients 5:57 - How the seeds of leadership and entrepreneurism were planted in Darin’s youth 7:56 - The difference between leadership, management, and coaching 9:38 - One critical aspect of leadership that requires self-awareness 12:49 - The plank hold method and how you can apply it in your practice 17:33 - The immense value of peer networks for business development 22:06 - Why Darin designed anti-counterfeiting software programs to protect luxury brands’ IP 23:58 - The better rule to follow for leaders with unique personality traits 28:15 - What Darin finds fascinating about the concept of happiness 32:16 - One of the greatest tragedies you can experience when you become successful MENTIONED IN LEADING FROM WITHIN: HOW PERSONAL GROWTH FUELS LAW FIRM LEADERSHIP Klemchuk PLLC | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram Engage Workspace for Lawyers | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram Unbeatable Mind Entrepreneurs’ Organization Vistage Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill Culture Index Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today’s episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of The Lawyer’s Edge coaching team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, just email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

Scott Love is the President of The Attorney Search Group and host of The Rainmaking Podcast, which helps attorneys, professional service firms, and B2B salespeople get more and better business from all their clients. As a prolific thought leader on the topics of rainmaking, recruiting, and leadership, he helps law firm partners mitigate risk and maximize opportunity when transitioning from one organization to another. With his nuanced understanding of high-stakes negotiations, effective partner transitions, and the delicate risks that come with complex career moves, he has placed attorneys among the Am Law 100 and 200 in corporate, finance, private equity, and investment management practices. Scott has also written numerous articles and authored three books on his expertise, been quoted in dozens of premium publications (such as the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and Business Insider), and been a popular speaker at conferences, retreats, conventions, sales meetings, and trade associations. Additionally, he served for seven years as a member of the Board of Directors of the National Association of Legal Search Consultants and is a member of the National Association for Law Placement. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LATERAL MOVES FOR LAW FIRM PARTNERS Law firm partners often find themselves at a crossroads, wondering if they've outgrown their current firm, or if the grass really is greener elsewhere. The thought of making a lateral move can feel risky and emotionally charged, but what if there's a more strategic way to approach these career decisions? Scott Love, who has spent 30 years helping partners navigate these transitions, reveals that the best moves aren't driven by money or ego, but by a clear understanding of what serves your clients best. He breaks down the two main reasons partners actually leave firms, explains why some lawyers hold themselves back from reaching their potential, and shares his proven framework for evaluating whether to stay put or make a move. In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman and Scott explore the strategic approach to lateral partner moves, the critical questions to ask before entertaining any offers, and how focusing on your clients' needs often leads to the most successful career decisions. 1:44 - How you can succeed where you are right now and fulfill your potential 4:55 - Two primary reasons why partners leave law firms 5:55 - What your main motivation for a lateral move should be 7:15 - Internal barriers that can block you from realizing your potential as a rainmaker 11:00 - Scott’s recommendations to help you navigate a lateral transition 17:20 - Two questions to consider when choosing or trying to decide between firms 20:01 - What you need to understand about compensation before you engage with new firms 23:30 - How to mitigate risk and increase the likelihood of a successful move 30:32 - Two things you can do to successfully bring your clients to a new firm 33:55 - The strategic question lawyers forget when making a major business move MENTIONED IN STRATEGIC LATERAL MOVES FOR LAW FIRM PARTNERS The Rainmaking Podcast The Attorney Search Group “TRP 252: [Lega] Avoid Landmines in Lateral Partner Moves with Hilary Gerzhoy” 10x Is Easier Than 2x: How World Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More By Doing Less by Dan Sullivan with Dr. Benjamin Hardy Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a...

Scott Tiedemann first joined Liebert Cassidy Whitmore as an associate in 2000 and became a partner in 2004. When his tenure as managing partner concludes on September 30th of this year, he will be focusing his energies again full-time on his practice representing public safety agencies and building the firm's private investigations practice. Melanie Chaney is an experienced labor negotiator and litigator and served as the managing partner of the Los Angeles office before moving into her new role managing firm-wide. She is taking over as managing partner of Liebert Cassidy Whitmore, a firm of about 115 lawyers in five offices focused on representing public agencies, educational institutions, and nonprofits across California in their labor, employment, and education matters. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT SEAMLESS LEADERSHIP SUCCESSION Most law firms struggle with leadership transitions, often waiting until the last minute to prepare a new managing partner (and creating chaos in the process). But Liebert Cassidy Whitmore has cracked the code on seamless succession planning. Since 1980, they've successfully managed four leadership transitions, each with a 15-year tenure, through a deliberate process that includes a full year of co-managing and a "long runway" for preparation. Scott Tiedemann and Melanie Chaney reveal the secrets behind their firm's remarkable stability and growth from 40 to 115 attorneys. They share how their "firm first" philosophy, consensus-based decision making, and seven core values create a culture where everyone is "rowing in the same direction." In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Scott and Melanie about their proven approach to leadership succession planning and what it really takes to build a partnership that works. 2:46 - How Liebert Cassidy Whitmore approaches leadership succession planning 7:26 - The consensus-based process for selecting the next managing partner 9:52 - What qualities the firm looks for in a managing partner (hint: it's not the "hard skills") 12:19 - Melanie's journey from "this wasn't my plan" to embracing leadership 16:32 - The specific steps they took during the co-managing transition year 18:20 - What has kept the firm stable and thriving for over 40 years 20:41 - The "firm first" culture and how founding partners gave up ownership for the next generation 23:53 - How they handle culture fit issues and removing people who don't align with values 26:27 - The top challenges facing growing law firms: AI and remote work culture 29:52 - Advice for law firms seeking to strengthen their partnership 34:30 - The importance of repeatedly discussing firm values at every meeting 39:37 - What Scott and Melanie have learned from each other 42:38 - Final advice: keeping your North Star and learning to delegate effectively MENTIONED IN PASSING THE TORCH: TIPS FOR SEAMLESS LEADERSHIP SUCCESSION Liebert Cassidy Whitmore Connect with Scott Tiedemann on LinkedIn Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today’s episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of The Lawyer’s Edge coaching team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, just email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

Sandra Cohen is the Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Cohen & Buckmann, which specializes in executive compensation, employee benefits and pensions. Her firm is nearly ten years old and is highly ranked in Chambers USA Guide and The Legal 500, no small achievement for a young, small boutique firm. She is a frequent author and speaker and is a former adjunct professor at NYU Law School, where she taught pension law to the next generation of employee benefits lawyers. She's a big believer that although her business has a bench of deep expertise and scholarship, it's really relationships and referrals that built her firm. WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT THAT ACTUALLY WORKS Starting your own law firm takes much more than being a good lawyer, including the willingness and ability to master business development skills that many lawyers find intimidating or distasteful. But what if effective business development isn't about sales pitches or aggressive marketing? What if it's really about making friends and building genuine relationships over time? In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Sandra Cohen, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Cohen & Buckmann. Sandra shares how she built her practice through relationships rather than traditional sales tactics, the power of content marketing for credibility-building, and why business development is like "watering a tree," slow, steady, and requiring patience for long-term growth. Sandra also discusses practical strategies for thought leadership (even for younger lawyers who think they don't have anything original to say), the importance of peer networking groups, and how giving away business can actually strengthen your referral network. 2:23 - Sandra's transition from large law firms to starting her own boutique practice 5:21 - How to track referrals and understand where your clients really come from 6:19 - The role of content marketing and thought leadership in building credibility 8:39 - Why lawyers need to show what they know, not just know it 11:41 - Advice for younger lawyers intimidated by "thought leadership" 15:04 - Getting started with writing: "Two big mistakes" instead of treatises 16:16 - How Sandra got involved in speaking opportunities through bar associations 18:01 - The power of repurposing content and LinkedIn for visibility 19:17 - Sandra's advice for senior lawyers: "Don't stumble over something that's behind you" 23:19 - The "know, like, trust, and remember" framework for relationship building 25:47 - Building peer groups that turn into 22-year referral relationships 27:21 - The power of giving away business to build your network 29:16 - How social media creates "top-of-mind awareness" for referrals 32:26 - Why business development for sophisticated practices is a long game 34:34 - Finding your audience: being in rooms full of people with problems you can solve MENTIONED IN THE LONG GAME OF BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT THAT ACTUALLY WORKS Cohen & Buckmann | LinkedIn Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE... Today’s episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of The Lawyer’s Edge coaching team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, just email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

Anthony M. DeSimone is a leading advocate for integrating generative AI into the legal profession, specializing in helping law firms harness AI to enhance efficiency, profitability, and client service. With more than 25 years of experience as a CPA and CMA, Anthony began his career at Deloitte before transitioning to focus on business optimization. Today, he operates "You're the Expert Now, LLC" and serves as a faculty member at the University at Buffalo Center for Entrepreneurial Leadership. In addition to delivering keynote presentations at national conferences, Tony leads AI accelerator courses and shares insights through his YouTube channel and podcast, "AI Mastermind." His groundbreaking work, including publishing a book in under 24 hours and producing AI-generated illustrations, underscores his expertise at the intersection of AI, data, and legal practice. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ON AI STRATEGY FOR LAW FIRMS Many law firms are intrigued by AI, but unsure how to move forward. Questions about confidentiality, security risks, and the reliability of AI tools leave many lawyers hesitant, and expose firms to risks they don’t fully understand. But AI isn’t about replacing lawyers. It’s about amplifying their capabilities while safeguarding client trust. Firms that learn how to integrate AI strategically will not only protect sensitive data but also position themselves for greater efficiency, profitability, and resilience in a changing legal landscape. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Anthony DeSimone, a CPA, CMA, and AI strategist who advises law firms on safe and effective AI adoption. Tony shares practical insights on the risks lawyers can’t afford to ignore, how to train teams to use AI responsibly, and how the right AI strategy can streamline firm operations without sacrificing security or professionalism. 2:10 – How law firms are approaching AI today — early adopters versus laggards 4:20 – The hidden risks when lawyers use AI tools without firm oversight 6:00 – What AI hallucinations are and why they matter for law firms 8:42 – Practical ways lawyers are using AI now — drafting, research, and more 13:14 – How to safeguard client confidentiality when using AI 17:23 – The leadership role in encouraging smart AI experimentation 21:35 – Why large language models struggle with numbers and how that impacts legal work 24:50 – What’s next — how AI will reshape law firm operations in the next five years MENTIONED IN ANTHONY DESIMONE | MAKING AI WORK FOR YOUR LAW FIRM WITHOUT COMPROMISING SECURITY OR EXCELLENCE You're the Expert Now, LLC | LinkedIn AI Usage Policy Maker Managing Partner Forum Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of The Lawyer’s Edge coaching team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, just email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

Talk to any senior partner in a law firm, and you’re likely to get a complaint or snide comment about the younger generation of lawyers being lazier, more entitled, and less interested in making partner or assuming leadership roles than their predecessors. On the flip side, some younger lawyers will be all too happy to tell you that senior lawyers are overly demanding, can’t respect boundaries, won’t share origination credit, and refuse to cede any responsibility or authority to those coming up behind them. Generational differences are real. They are significant. And they are impacting both how law firms operate today and how they will be governed in the future. Chris DeSantis is a speaker, author, and consultant specializing in workplace interventions. With nearly 30 years of experience as an independent organizational behavior consultant, Chris is a trusted partner to some of the world’s largest companies in the professional services, tech, and pharmaceutical industries. When working with clients, his goals are to dig deeper, treat the root causes, and offer user-friendly solutions aligned with company initiatives. Before becoming an independent consultant, Chris was the Director of Management Development and Training for the American Medical Association and a Human Resources Development Manager at Brunswick Corporation. Chris has a BBA from the University of Notre Dame, an MA in organizational behavior from Loyola University in Chicago, and an MBA from the University of Denver. Chris is the Author of Why I Find You Irritating: Navigating Generational Friction at Work. He’s also the Host of the Cubicle Confidential podcast, where he and Co-host Mary Abbajay share advice on outrageous workplace questions, comments, and concerns. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ON NAVIGATING GENERATIONAL FRICTION AT WORK Many law firm leaders are grappling with generational tensions that quietly undermine collaboration, leadership development, and retention. But these conflicts aren’t simply about age, they’re rooted in deeper divides over authority, feedback, and what lawyers expect from the workplace. Chris DeSantis, speaker, consultant, and author of Why I Find You Irritating: Navigating Generational Friction at Work, has spent his career helping organizations navigate workplace dynamics, and now helps law firm leaders understand how generational habits and mindsets can create hidden friction. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge, Chris joins Elise Holtzman to unpack how law firm hierarchies clash with younger lawyers’ expectations of dialogue and inclusion. He shares why traditional “figure it out” leadership no longer works, and how shifting to a culture of open conversation can reduce friction, boost engagement, and strengthen leadership pipelines. 2:43 – Why law firm leaders can’t ignore generational friction. Chris shares the challenges that inspired him to write his book. 4:55 – How generalizations shape perceptions and create blind spots in the workplace. 7:43 – The four generations in today’s workforce and how their life experiences influence expectations at work. 11:02 – How different parenting models have shaped generational behaviors and workplace dynamics. 14:06 – Why younger attorneys struggle in tell-do workplaces, and how leaders can shift to an engage-discuss model. 19:02 – The hidden reasons adjacent generations experience the most friction, and how leaders can help defuse the tension. 26:01 – How gender, hierarchy, and generational differences collide in law firm environments. 33:10 – What leaders can do to foster dialogue over directives. Chris explains why this approach drives better performance and retention. MENTIONED IN WHY I FIND YOU IRRITATING: NAVIGATING GENERATIONAL FRICTION AT WORK Chris DeSantis | Chris DeSantis on LinkedIn Cubicle Confidential Podcast Why I Find You Irritating: Navigating Generational Friction at Work by Chris DeSantis Different: Escaping the Competitive Herd by Youngme...

Sophie Lechner is a former practicing lawyer turned business coach, speaker, and author with two decades of LinkedIn expertise. She helps mission-driven professionals turn marketing from a chore into a joy, enabling them to attract clients like a magnet rather than chase them down. Sophie is the creator of The MAGNET Model, a framework that simplifies client attraction and relationship-building on LinkedIn. She has spoken globally, including at Oxford University, and has been featured in Forbes. Her corporate background spans industry leaders such as BP, Pfizer, and Bayer. Sophie recently published her new book, Unlock Your Impact, where she shares her proven client-attraction framework. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ON LINKEDIN STRATEGY FOR LAWYERS Many lawyers feel uneasy about marketing, and even more uncertain about how to use LinkedIn effectively. Misconceptions about self-promotion, limited time, and discomfort with visibility often prevent lawyers from showing up online in a meaningful way. But LinkedIn isn’t about shouting the loudest. It’s about building genuine relationships, sharing valuable insights, and establishing credibility in the professional community you serve. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Sophie Lechner, a former lawyer and business coach who helps professionals attract clients with purpose and authenticity using her proprietary MAGNET Model. Sophie shares practical, sustainable strategies for lawyers to show up on LinkedIn consistently, whether you're ready to create original content or prefer to engage thoughtfully with others. She also explains how to tailor your presence so it reflects your values, highlights your expertise, and fosters long-term client relationships. 2:10 – Sophie’s international background and transition from lawyer to business coach 5:06 – Why she left law—and how disillusionment led to reinvention 9:22 – Why many lawyers feel uncomfortable marketing themselves 11:33 – Why LinkedIn is the best platform for relationship-based professionals 14:13 – A realistic time commitment for meaningful LinkedIn engagement 17:21 – The power of content curation (if you don’t want to post your own!) 21:46 – The must-have profile updates lawyers often overlook 25:14 – An introduction to The MAGNET Model and what makes it work MENTIONED IN SOPHIE LECHNER | LEVERAGE THE POWER OF LINKEDIN WITH THE MAGNET MODEL Sophie Lechner | LinkedIn Unlock Your Impact - Sophie Lechner Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of The Lawyer’s Edge coaching team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, just email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

Jennifer Gardner is a Los Angeles-based trial lawyer and persuasive communications consultant. Her three-decade career spans entertainment litigation, serious criminal cases, and business and real estate disputes. Jennifer teaches high-performing professionals how to grow their influence, impact, and executive presence through her programs The Art of Influence and The Power Lab. She also consults lawyers on courtroom presence and strategic messaging, and delivers CLE workshops including Whoever Tells the Best Story Wins and How You Can Have Bad Facts and Bad Law and Still Win Your Case. She has received Certifications in Influence and Persuasion, Leadership, and Using Neuroscience to Obtain Better Business Results from the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT THE ART AND SCIENCE OF INFLUENCE TO BE A MORE PERSUASIVE LAWYER What separates a good lawyer from a truly persuasive one? According to trial lawyer and communications consultant Jennifer Gardner, it’s the ability to harness both the art and science of influence. Mastering persuasion isn’t just about confidence or charisma, it’s about emotional intelligence, neuroscience, and your ability to create real human connection. Jennifer draws on decades of courtroom experience and advanced training in storytelling, behavior, and communication to help lawyers tap into their full persuasive potential. She shares how legal professionals can elevate their impact by learning to regulate emotions, read others more effectively, and challenge the cultural norms that prioritize intellect over influence. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Jennifer about how to become a more powerful communicator, why emotions drive decision-making, and what it takes to lead in a way that’s both strategic and authentic. 2:03 – What sparked Jennifer’s pursuit of influence and persuasion 4:49 – How early messaging shaped her sense of power and self-expression 7:23 – The neuroscience behind why storytelling works 10:02 – Lawyers as leaders and why emotions matter more than logic 11:53 – Why Jennifer launched The Art of Influence and The Power Lab 14:02 – Cultural programming and lawyers’ resistance to emotion 17:01 – How to start developing persuasive power 20:23 – What marketers know about influence that lawyers need to learn Mentioned In Using the Art and Science of Influence to Be a More Persuasive Lawyer Jennifer B. Gardner | LinkedIn Chris DeSantis | Why I Find You Irritating: Navigating Generational Friction at Work Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, email the team at hello@thelawyersedge.com.

Coaching is often misunderstood in the legal profession. It’s not about giving advice, cheerleading, or fixing a problem. It’s about creating space for clarity, growth, and meaningful change. In this solo episode, Elise Holtzman shares what lawyers need to know about professional coaching, including how it works, when it’s most effective, and how law firms are using it to support top talent. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge, Elise draws on her experience as a certified coach and former practicing attorney as she explains how coaching helps high-performing lawyers overcome both internal and external barriers, sharpen leadership and business development skills, and follow through on the goals that matter most. She also outlines what a typical coaching engagement looks like, what results attorneys can realistically expect, and why experience inside the legal profession makes such a difference in the coaching relationship. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT COACHING FOR LAWYERS 1:14 – Why this episode is all about answering lawyers’ most common coaching questions 2:00 – What coaching really is—and how it helps you clarify goals and overcome obstacles 4:27 – Coaching vs. consulting, mentoring, and training: Understanding the differences 6:25 – The importance of customization and implementation in coaching 7:57 – Is coaching a licensed profession? What credentials actually mean 12:24 – Who coaching is really for, and why top lawyers are increasingly embracing it 14:17 – How coaching engagements typically work at The Lawyer’s Edge 19:37 – What kind of results can you expect from coaching (and what to avoid) 22:30 – Why coaching lawyers requires legal industry experience 26:03 – How to explore coaching for yourself or your team MENTIONED IN COACHING FOR LAWYERS: WHAT IT IS, WHAT IT ISN’T, AND WHY IT WORKS International Coaching Federation (ICF) Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer’s Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional. Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Pat Gillette is one of the country’s leading voices on gender equity in the legal profession. A seasoned employment litigator, rainmaker, and law firm leader, Pat spent 40 years in practice before shifting her focus to empowering women lawyers through speaking, writing, and consulting. She is a sought-after advisor on advancing women and diverse attorneys in leadership and business development. During her legal career, Pat was recognized as a top employment litigator and trial lawyer by Chambers and other industry rankings. She served as a rainmaker and firm leader before leaving Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe in 2015 to devote herself to changing the legal landscape for women. She also joined JAMS as a mediator, bringing her deep expertise to complex employment disputes. Pat is the author of Rainmakers: Born or Bred, a research-based exploration of the characteristics that drive successful business development in law firms. Beyond her work in practice, she co-founded the Opt-In Project, a national initiative designed to increase the retention and advancement of women in law firms. She was also part of the 2016 Diversity Lab Hackathon team that developed the Mansfield Rule. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT WOMEN AS RAINMAKERS AND LAW FIRM LEADERS For many women in Biglaw, the message has long been you can be a rainmaker or a leader, but not both. Pat Gillette disagrees. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge, Elise Holtzman sits down with Pat Gillette to discuss why women lawyers must advocate for themselves, step into leadership, and take control of their careers. Drawing on her decades of experience and groundbreaking research on rainmakers, Pat unpacks the systemic barriers that hold women back, the myths about business development, and the practical strategies women can use to break through. She shares why firms must do more than talk about diversity—they must remove the structural obstacles that keep women from developing business and taking on leadership roles. She also reveals how women can successfully build books of business while balancing other responsibilities. 2:02 – Pat’s legal career and why she transitioned from practice to advocacy 6:21 – The slow evolution of gender equity in law firms—and what still needs to change 8:09 – The hidden structural barriers that impact women’s rainmaking potential 10:55 – How the Mansfield Rule is redefining leadership opportunities in law firms 14:00 – The biggest misconception about business development—and why women are built for it 19:36 – How prioritization and compartmentalization are key to long-term success 22:43 – Why women must actively seek mentorship and sponsorship 27:05 – The simple but powerful career advice Pat gives every woman lawyer: Just ask! MENTIONED IN JUST ASK! HOW WOMEN CAN SUCCEED AS RAINMAKERS AND LAW FIRM LEADERS Pat Gillette | Pat Gillette on LinkedIn Rainmakers: Born or Bred by Patricia K. Gillette Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Denise Baker is a Co-Managing Partner of one of Canada’s oldest and most prestigious firms, WeirFoulds. In addition to that role, she advises on complex municipal and land use planning law issues that appear before multiple courts and tribunals. She also participates in mediations and negotiations to effectively resolve disputes before they get to court. Denise chairs numerous land use and municipal law-related committees, including serving as a past chair of the municipal law section of the Ontario Bar Association. She speaks frequently for organizations like the Law Society of Ontario, the Ontario Professional Planners Institute, and the Ontario Bar Association, and has been teaching land use law for years. She’s repeatedly recognized by Best Lawyers in Canada, in the Canadian Legal Lexpert Directory, and is ranked by Chambers Canada. WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LEADING A LAW FIRM As a managing partner of a law firm who still maintains a busy legal practice, you often have to wear many hats, such as leading your firm, making critical decisions, managing different personalities, and ensuring top-tier client service. Connecting with peers who share similar challenges can be invaluable. This is what drew Denise Baker to the Managing Partner Forum’s conference at the end of 2024, where she and Elise Holtzman, the host of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, met as faculty members. In this episode, Elise speaks with Denise about the pressing issues, tough decisions, and key leadership lessons she has encountered as a law firm leader. Denise discusses the challenges of training and motivating lawyers, the evolving role of AI in legal practice, the decision to adopt a co-managing partner structure, and the critical importance of addressing toxic behavior within a firm. 3:36 – Key issues that managing partners and law firm leaders face today 6:13 – Use of AI and the importance of carefully weaving it into legal practices 11:48 – Why WeirFoulds decided to adopt the fairly new co-managing partner framework 15:41 – The importance of balancing management responsibilities while in a busy practice 17:28 – How Denise has evolved as a leader since becoming co-managing partner 19:56 – The challenge of managing difficult people and why dealing with toxic behavior in your firm is a necessity 31:01 – Denise’s final piece of advice that can pay dividends for your organization’s culture MENTIONED IN LEADING A LAW FIRM: HOT TOPICS, TOUGH CALLS, AND LEADERSHIP LESSONS Denise Baker (WeirFoulds LLP) | LinkedIn WeirFoulds LLP | LinkedIn | YouTube Managing Partner Forum | Conference Overview Above the Law Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Christa Brown-Sanford is a partner at Baker Botts in Dallas and chair of its Intellectual Property department. She also serves on the firm’s Executive and Diversity and Inclusion committees and is an adjunct professor at SMU’s Dedman School of Law, where she speaks regularly on patent matters. At every stage, she provides guidance on patent procurement, patent portfolio development, patent litigation, and patent licensing–particularly involving cutting-edge technologies in telecommunications, blockchain, electronics, AI, semiconductors, software, and personal mobility. Outside of the office, Christa is actively involved in several organizations in the Dallas community. She’s a member of the Charter 100 and Charity Crystal Ball, serves on the advisory board for the State Fair of Texas and the Innovation Council for Southern Methodist University, and serves on the boards of SMU, SMU's Dedman School of Law, Rice University George R. Brown School of Engineering, the Baylor Scott & White Foundation, and New Friends New Life (an organization focused on empowering trafficked women and girls). She was also the President of the Junior League of Dallas during the League's Centennial year and was recently honored as a top rainmaker by the Minority Corporate Counsel Association (MCCA). WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT ACHIEVING RAINMAKER SUCCESS Today, it’s common for lawyers to move from firm to firm in search of better opportunities. Whether you’re staying put for the long haul or keeping your options open, staying connected to your core motivators and mission can be the key to long-term success—both as a partner and a rainmaker. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Christa Sanford, Partner and Intellectual Property Chair at Baker Botts, to talk about the impact of leading with purpose. Christa shares her journey to leadership, her commitment to fostering diversity and inclusion in the legal profession, and the pivotal moments that shaped her career. She also reflects on the challenges and rewards of balancing a demanding legal practice with one’s personal life—and why staying true to her mission has made all the difference. 2:34 – Why Christa has remained at Baker Botts long-term and what’s driven her to take on so many roles 8:57 – The biggest key to Christa developing her business and how she became aware of the rainmaking space 14:31 – The rewards of investing time, money, and energy into business development 17:26 – The factors that helped Christa evolve and step into leadership 21:32 – The low point that changed Christa’s approach to failure and perfectionism in business development 28:01 – The challenges Christa faced on her journey to partner and rainmaker as a mom of three young kids 32:25 – Practical advice for building strong client relationships MENTIONED IN WHY STAYING TRUE TO YOUR MISSION IS CRUCIAL TO ACHIEVING RAINMAKER SUCCESS Christa Brown-Sanford (Baker Botts) | LinkedIn Baker Botts LLP | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | X | YouTube Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Katie Schwarting is a real estate lawyer and partner at Seyfarth Shaw LLP in Charlotte, North Carolina. Her practice focuses on commercial mortgage-backed securities such as conduit and single asset, single borrower and Freddie Mac securitizations, and collateralized loan obligations. She works with servicers and special servicers on legal issues regarding asset management, compliance, default strategies, audit, and regulatory and disclosure requirements. Away from the office, Katie serves on the board of trustees for the Charlotte Museum of History as vice chair. She’s also a member of the Mortgage Bankers Association Commercial Board of Governors and serves on the advisory board for Duke University Alumni Giving. Recently, she was honored alongside a small group of private practice lawyers as a top rainmaker by the Minority Corporate Counsel Association (MCCA). WHAT’S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT HABITS OF A SUCCESSFUL RAINMAKER Building and maintaining a large client base as a team leader and successful rainmaker requires more than just great legal work. It demands a willingness to learn, adapt, and implement business development strategies—some of which might look very different from what worked in the past. In this episode of The Lawyer’s Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman interviews Katie Schwarting, a real estate lawyer and partner at Seyfarth Shaw, about the not-so-obvious habits that helped her grow and sustain a thriving book of business. Katie shares how she got started with networking to land her first client, how she takes the pressure off potential clients, and how she balances growth with retention—ensuring she doesn’t lose existing clients while bringing in new ones. Plus, she reveals what it takes to build a powerhouse team and why leadership plays a critical role in rainmaking. 2:20 – Why Katie prioritized business development while growing her legal practice 4:13 – How becoming a rainmaker opened doors to leadership, management, and firm-wide impact 9:44 – The role of listening in Katie’s approach to business development 11:33 – How to maximize conferences and networking opportunities to attract new clients 18:14 – The one thing Katie never does when meeting a potential client—and why it reflects an abundant mindset 22:02 – What it takes to build a book of business as a team, rather than as a solo effort 26:26 – How to strike a balance between attracting new clients and nurturing long-term relationships 33:10 – The unique challenges and opportunities of being a rainmaker as a woman and/or person of color 38:19 – Why intentionality is the key to long-term success in business development MENTIONED IN THE SURPRISING HABITS OF A SUCCESSFUL RAINMAKER Katie Schwarting (Seyfarth Shaw) | LinkedIn Seyfarth Shaw LLP | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter/X | YouTube “How to Get the Most ROI From Your Next Conference” Get Connected with The Coaching Team at hello@thelawyersedge.com The Lawyer’s Edge SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE… Today’s episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women’s Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. Early Bird Registration is now underway for our 2025 Ignite cohorts. If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.