The Leader Development Podcast

This is the first in a series of conversations with Khongi Khongorzul, a dear friend and a CEO of a new school in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia. I have become an advisor to her and her school focused on leadership, project based learning, and social emotional learning. If you have questions or comments, please reach out to me at www.growingatwork.com.

Understanding that which holds us back, and how to break free. This is at the core of personal change, no matter what you want to change. We often face situations where we are unable to make the major change in our lives or at work we so desperately want. This episode is based on the concept of Subject-Object relations stemming from the work of Dr. Robert Kegan. This is about what it means to help people see a bigger world, to better understand themselves, to change their behavior, and to make better decisions. Do away with self-defeating behaviors, and getting rid of limiting beliefs. It’s time to succeed. This Episode features: Alice Nichols – Alice has had an amazing journey in supporting leaders through their own development and the development of the organizations they lead. She is an authentic leader, environmentalist, and passionate supporter of people’s’ growth. Austin Hulbert – Austin is currently a Harvard Business School Candidate. He flew as a Strike Fighter Pilot flying for the US Navy and spent time as a fighter pilot instructor for the Navy, training a new generation of American fighter pilots. Jason Connell – Jason began his career as a child magician, and worked hard to become a leadership development professional and coach, he has worked with fortune 500 Executives and senior members of the Obama administration. Michael Nagle is a transformational leadership consultant and coach. He has tremendous experience as an executive leadership coaching within pharmaceutical companies. His insights into personal change in the workplace lends itself directly to our broader conversation of development in the workplace. Dr. Mark Biddle – Mark is a professional leadership trainer, coach, educator, and founder of Dalton Corner Coaching. Mark’s experience ranges from serving as a minister in Chicago, to leading experiential leadership in the MBA program at Babson College. He also completed the Immunity to Change Coaching Program from Minds at Work. Respond rather than reflecting. You will need to engage in work to understand yourself in truly deep ways to be able to step outside your everyday thought process to be able to engage in your thought process to understand what is holding you back. Chris Argis formerly of Harvard Business School and Don Schon formerly of MIT looked at learning from first questioning the goal. Single Loop learning refers to repeated attempts to solve the same problem with the same method without ever questioning the goal, while double loop learning begins with a shift in how we understand the goal, creating a more dynamic understanding of the problem we are working with, it encourages us to take in account of how our environment modifies our own mental model of the situation we face. Being a true leader to help others be able to engage in personal change, begins with a leader’s ability to do the deep and sometimes painful work of understanding oneself. The idea of subject object transition which is a focus of Dr. Robert Kegan a psychologist and professor at Harvard University. He stresses that not only can we not hold onto certain understandings of ourselves and the world, but in a way certain things hold us. We are almost literally subjected to these distortions of reality. Jason talked with us about the fear of failure, he also mentioned that failure is a judgement call, what some people might associate as a failure, to others might be simply an opportunity to learn. Easier said than done. In Jason’s case he realized that his fears, or his illusion of failure stopped him from taking action. His mind created a self-protective strategy that prevented him from feeling the pain of being turned down by stopping him from picking up the phone. Jason faced a disparity of wanting to grow his business but not wanting to take the action needed to grow it. Dr. Kegan and Dr. Lahey have entitled this “immunity to change”. That even though you want to change you have a self-protective commitment that keeps you...

Growing past a team leader role entering into the "political" or "strategic" landscape of an organization is a challenge. Learn about the biggest challenges in making this leap so you are able to overcome them! Check out our longform blog post titled The Challenge of Millennial Leader Development! www.growingatwork.com

Ahron Oddman is currently a Harvard Business School Candidate. He flew as a Strike Fighter Pilot flying for the US Navy and spent time as a fighter pilot instructor for the Navy, training a new generation of American fighter pilots. Directly from Ahron: Ahron describes his major influences growing up as his parents and grandparents who made it a point to lead by example. His grandparents demonstrated a dedication to selfless service by adopting children prior to immigrating to the United States from Jamaica. In Ahron’s words it was just what they did. Empathy for others was ever present through the actions of his grandparents and parents. Ahron described himself as having access to this empathy that was modeled for him in his youth. While access was important for him, it was something he has cultivated over time. Ahron’s experience as a Marine Corps Officer, reminds us of the need to support those who work with and for you. That everyone brings their totality of their experiences and challenges into work. As leaders we need to keep in mind the varying needs of those we serve. Some of Ahron’s favorite leaders genuinely cared for him and those around him. They took the time to learn about Ahron’s life outside of the workplace, and made it clear that they were very interested in his experiences and desires. Ahron discussed his current boss who makes it a point to “deflecting credit publicly”. He is quick to recognize successes and the steps that people take to have those successes. Being a servant leader is at the heart of Ahron’s leadership philosophy. Ahron described having worked alongside a toxic leader, who he explained would lead through fear. Ahron continued that he believed these toxic behaviors came from a place of personal fear as well. Ahron had the opportunity to see this leader own his personal difficulty as being a toxic leader. Over time he saw massive change in his ability to relate to others and lead with dignity. Ahron and Adam discussed the challenges of an over hierarchical organization where feedback typically only flows down. Had there been practices that allow for feedback upwards, it might have helped to mitigate the toxic behaviors that this leader demonstrated. You can find Ahron at his linkedin account below. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahronoddman

Colonel Brett Sylvia is a graduate of the United States Military Academy, West Point. He has served as a Battalion Commander in Afghanistan with the 82nd Airborne Division. Brett is currently serving as the Brigade Commander of the 2nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team of the 101st Airborne Division currently serving in Iraq. Brett brings an incredible perspective to leadership having served multiple combat tours over the past two decades. “Leadership is about taking people to where they may not have gone on their own.” “As you empower others failure is inevitable, how are you going to deal with it?” “When failure came he didn’t berate us, he didn’t yell at us, he didn’t tell us that we were stupid, or that was completely foreseeable, how come we didn’t see it. he brought us in again… first he would look internally and say, ok did I give them good enough guidance, did I train them well enough, and then would bring you in and say let’s talk about what happened, where did this go wrong, how can we do better how can we move forward from this point.” Brett discussed his experience at West Point, and the power of receiving feedback from a peer that he carries with him to this day. That receiving the right information at the right time from others can shape your self-awareness. He explained his thoughts on challenging people in his organization. He describes the fine line of following through with what people say they want versus what they need and what they truly want. It is about finding a balance and priorities. Empowering others is a focus point for Brett. He explained this as an essential component of his leader development strategy, to give intent and guidance and allow subordinates to fail. Failure is essential in learning for both your subordinate and for yourself as a leader. Brett’s failure to get a White House Fellowship position, he described his internalization of advice as a reason for his failure. This advice kept him from being truly authentic in the moment of his interviews. He tied this directly to self-awareness as a key component of being a great leader. Experiencing growth in personal self-awareness is in Brett’s words aided in difficult and trying times. Taking those “Ranger School” type opportunities that push you to the brink of failure and trying times that cause you to ask deeply who you are and what drives you. Brett also talked about his extremely challenging experiences as a leader of a combat engineer platoon leader in Bosnia. The first US military unit in the area since the signing of the Dayton Accords following the hostilities. His efforts were focused on clearing mines placed by both sides of this conflict. Part of leadership development is knowing that they are not “fully cooked”. He described the Army as a “leadership laboratory” that is designed to develop them. This is a key component that all individuals in all organizations should recognize, that even if you are hiring an individual to lead a part of your organization, no one is perfect. By making leadership development a key component of what you do not only makes learning from your mistakes part of the job, but also a responsibility of everyone in the organization. Brett describes the difference between commitment and dedication. “In commitment there involves some sacrifice.” Bret give some amazing wisdom focused in on balance and priorities. How there are often seasons of priorities towards family, friends, and others for work. Brett spoke to this directly to the idea of expectations. Finally, Brett discussed his relationship with his wife, and dealing with high demand positions and jobs. He gave key ideas for how to have a successful relationship. You can find Brett at his LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-sylvia-884989

Andres begins with the idea of finding one’s calling. He explained that this is a deeper process than one would realize. In his words “it is deeply emotional, and profoundly psychological.” In his explanation, Andres describes the process of finding one’s calling in the words of Constructive Developmental Theory (CDT), a shift from the third order to the fourth order of mind. CDT was developed by Harvard Professor, Robert Kegan, and describes the psychological process of adult development. 3rd Order – Socialized Mind: One is incapable of distinguishing between their internal or authentic voice and that of an external voice (parent, cultural norms, religion, etc). The heart of the challenge of someone in the 3rd Order is to make one’s own decisions separate from the influences of external voices. If you look at your own past decisions and investigate what motivated you to make those decisions, you may realize how others might have influenced your direction. Gender: How most people experience gender in society is a wonderful example. Many people are brought up encouraged to engage in the stereotypical behaviors of their biological gender. Boys play with trucks, build legos, and even grow-up to be doctors. Girls like pink, they play with dolls, and grow up to be caring mothers, nurses, etc. The impact of being brought up with these norms are felt by many later in life: Man – I should be more masculine; Women – I do not belong in a work environment. 4th Order – Self-Authoring: The state of psychological development where a person has been able to pull apart introjected beliefs from outside sources and have been able to self-author their own values and beliefs. The idea that one has moved to a place where they are no longer limited by the psychological hold of the pressure to please, or anxiety of how others will perceive them. While pressures and anxiety will of course still exist; they exist from a new perspective. One where they can hold and examine the pressure and anxiety without being beholden to them. The same can be said for being able to identify one’s own calling. Applications to Leadership: Having a leader who can think outside the context of the internal pressures one puts on themselves. To be able to ascend to a level where the impact of internal pressures are degraded and eventually impact the decisions of the leader less and less. 3rd Order Continued: Exploring Oneself Deeply: Andres explains that so much of one’s life through college and early adulthood that “your own thoughts, your own experienced learnings, up to that point your life is prescribed, by society, your peers, school etc.” We identify uniquely with this prescription. You grow up and are told who you are. You are shaped by your environment, to find yourself believing certain things about your world and yourself. In the third order, these beliefs hold you. You are unable to step away from them to explore and understand them. They have a hold on you. “It is to gain an intuition that there is something, an engine, to generate perspective, to generate opinions, to generate your own values.” People take for granted that there are limited perspectives one can take, you are in this camp or that camp. “Constructing this unique perspective on anything that is a process, it’s not just handed to us, it’s not going to fall from the sky, it is hard earned.” Andres took a solo trip to South East Asia that forced him out of his third ordered position. He experienced what he called complete freedom. Andres began his lifelong experience with mindfulness during this trip. In his words, he found himself at a silent retreat in Thailand. At the beginning of his three day retreat he was provided a timer and five minutes instruction on how to meditate. In his words, “it was terrible”. He didn’t know what he was there for, what it meant to “see things how they really are.” Andres described a major realization he had during his second day, and he described that experience...

Rina has been following Thich Nhat Hanh’s work for quite a while. Shortly prior to the recording of this podcast Rina traveled to Plum Village for a mindfulness and meditation experience lasting a couple weeks. See the link below. The experience was a combination of seated meditation, walking mindfully, eating mindfully, and work meditation. Early in Rina’s experience, she was challenged with walking mindfully. She was asked to walk through the French countryside and focus on the mechanics of her walking, focusing on how her foot touched the ground, feeling the heel, the side of her foot, and the bend of her toes. As a New Yorker, Rina described wanting to get where she was going, but as she worked through this experience, she began to both see the benefits of it and enjoy experiencing the sensations of it. She was forced to confront her desires in the moment, the rush to squeeze every bit from the experience. She described this feeling as a stressor through her time working on a Master’s Degree at Harvard University. Having the opportunity to shift from the pressure of having experience gave-way to allow the opportunity to follow what feels good, to remain in the moment. Rina described the experience of being mindful. She described the importance of being patient in the moment, to provide a level of love and self compassion. She described the experience as, “It’s that wanting is natural and normal, for me it can be externally driven to meet someone else’s standards” A way it can be managed is with mindfulness which is to pause, breathe, reflect and offer yourself kindness to just slow down, and to take more grounded steps instead of sprinting.” In our conversation we described a connection of Mindfulness to Self-Determination Theory. Connecting external motivators that manifest themselves as guilt, desire, and pressure that are described in Self-Determination Theory as introjected motivations. Rina furthered the conversation by explaining the connection of mindfulness to overcoming these difficult and often inconvenient motivations. Rina’s experience of stress in her decision-making has created pressure for herself, both at the meditation retreat and in her daily life. She attributes her mindfulness work to overcoming these challenges. “I really can’t say enough about giving yourself that moment (to be mindful) at the beginning of the day it could be 5 minutes it could be two but that’s a symbol that I give to myself so I can give to others.” The tables are turned as Rina asks me to describe why I stayed in Tae Kwon Do for two decades. She continued this description of how there are barriers to engaging in the practice, and that as you continue with it, you realize the importance of it, they joy of it. “It’s my peaceful loving kindness wish for others to be happy in the work that they do.” Listen in to hear what it means for Rina to be happy in her work. She describes it as Flow, founded by Dr. Csikszentmihalyi. Calling it happy isn’t enough, it can be so much more than that. “It is the feeling of knowing why I am alive.” “The label of happiness doesn’t do it justice.” Rina takes us through a few mindfulness techniques for beginners. Engaging in mindfulness practice doesn’t change at it’s root if the scene or context changes. Giving myself the room and the forgiveness to do the practice as I am able to do… it doesn’t mean I can’t do it as I am walking to the Subway. “Giving from a whole vessel, giving from a place of abundance. Rather than giving from a place of sacrifice. I’m able to sustain it longer, be more creative, and to fulfill me.” Buddhist Meditation Retreat in Southern France: http://plumvillage.org/ You can find Rina at https://rinadeshpande.com/ Music is courtesy of www.freemusicarchive.org. Sound Effects are courtesy of freesound.org. https://www.freesound.org/people/caquet/sounds/221165/ https://www.freesound.org/people/Tritus/sounds/197288/...

A graduate of Harvard and Emory University, Jeffrey Siegel has studied neuroscience, education, mindfulness, and physical fitness. His work has led to help people make personal transformations in their life. Jeff was first exposed to mindfulness in college, where he walked into a free session offered by the university. In his mindfulness practice, Jeff describes moments of having an incredible sense of wholeness, peacefulness, trust in self. He explains that the more you practice, the more you have the opportunity to experience it. He describes it as “Getting away from the background chatter. The white noise of our own mind just sort of calms down.” Jeff continued to explain that it is the experience is like feeling completely renewed, almost like a vacation, massage, or retreat. In our conversation, Jeff reminded us that while it can provide tremendous opportunities for peace, relaxation, and to see deeper into oneself. Often times meditation doesn’t provide a big realization. Mindfulness is a practice, and one that take time to cultivate. The first step in mindfulness or meditation is to be aware of your focus, being able to identify when your attention or focus begins to shift. Just having that asset as a leader supports your ability to be deliberate in what you mind is centered on. Baby steps. Jeff explains that beginning a journey into meditation and mindfulness begins with small steps. Magic Spot: Find a place where you can go, be with yourself, and to just write. “This awesome little place where I can be with nature, and nature can be with me.” Jeff’s spiritual practices started with taking long walks with his parents and discussed important things in life. Giving him a different perspective than most organized religions provide. Jeff attended a Quaker High School, and an experience he had was a free and open share. That provided the opportunity of introspection, quiet time, and reflection, and to be open and to share that. These opportunities to be vulnerable provided the chance for students to be vulnerable and to share major moments of their life. Adam’s Notes: These opportunities to reflect and share can be integrated into the workplace. Finding opportunities to allow people to share their deepest thoughts can provide the opportunity for growth. Jeff struggled with an eating disorder, and it wasn’t until he was able to surrender to the support of those closest to him that he was finally able to get the help he needed. #posttraumaticgrowth #Youeitherwinoryoulearn “Every fault and falley has something incredible to teach us, and a lot of our personal issues whether they be with health, career, or relationship, are these windows into helping us evolve and we have to be willing to step into them and to look into explore them, but it’s really hard because they are often wrapped in a lot of pain, emotional charge, trauma, past memories. It is important to have someone you can trust to help you through them.” Our discussion shifted to motivation understanding how we have so many influencers in our lives that push and pull our desires, and that as we grow we may slowly make our way towards a state of self-authorship. In this state we are capable of making our own decisions seperate from the motivations of others. Jeff described a few important mentors of his, one of which was his martial arts instructor who provided him the opportunity to teach as well. Giving him space, trust, and strength to come into his own by leading others. Contemplative practices come in as many shapes and sizes, one.. “pause ground yourself in something beautiful, something that has its own natural architecture to it. The next step, think about someone you would like to share that experience with, can you call to mind someone you who would like to appreciate that beautiful flower with. What would it be like to stand next to that person and admire that flower with… my guess is that you have your flower on you. Take a selfie with the...

Lynne Wines is an experienced leader in the private sector, she has been a COO and serial CEO of a couple of banks. She leads with a sound mind and dedication to those she serves. She is currently an Advanced Leadership Fellow at Harvard University. “Leadership is a skill something that you can build and learn and get better at. It isn’t something that is granted to you. Nobody can grant you leadership.” “They can grant you titles, they can grant you money, they can grant you the big corner office, but they can not grant you the respect and trust that you have to have to be an effective leader.” In this episode, Lynne makes a clear distinction between being in an authority position and making acts of leadership. In one of her stories she describes how without declaring herself to be a leader, she found ways to improving the company she was working for towards an early stage in her career. Her inspirational story reminds us that you don’t need rank or the corner office to support needed change in your organization. She explained, that people want and naturally gravitate towards someone who will take responsibility and lead. This has a tendency to build a degree of informal authority in the organization or around the people you work with. During her early days of making acts of leadership, she didn’t identify herself as a leader. She identified that there were better ways to do things and better ways to treat people. She sought to give people a voice in the positions she held. Her ability to be mindful and aware in her workplace allowed her to not only see what needed to be done but also prompted her to take action aligned with her beliefs. These early acts of leadership were not easy. Lynne described feelings of anxiety, especially when one of her bosses ‘supposed leaders’ held negative attitudes towards women. Lynne described a desire to not come off as being bossy. As she began to realize that her actions were helpful she also began to notice how those around her were perceiving the benefit of her actions. She built a collaboration among her colleagues to create plans for the organization. And they stepped up. In her explanation of managing a small department she described, you need people to do the big jobs. To build that action you need to cultivate your ability to lead. She continued by explaining that “leadership is a skill something that you can build and learn and get better at. It isn’t something that is granted to you. Nobody can grant you leadership. They can grant you titles, they can grant you money, they can grant you the big corner office, but they can not grant you the respect and trust that you have to have to be an effective leader.” Lynne also described her number one belief to build the right culture and that is to be the role model. She described it as her driving force to running her banks. For her, it was especially as the first woman CEO in Florida of a financial institution. For Lynne leading isn’t just making sure the job gets done, it is about creating a learning environment within the organization, which means open and transparent communication. She described that 95% of what goes on in the company is not confidential. She stressed, “if you want to know something ask me.” A tip that Lynne described was keeping her calendar open to everyone so they would know what she was doing. This was an extra level of transparency and acted as an invite to everyone in the organization to speak with her. Lynne described herself as unpopular in her younger years, she wasn’t a joiner of things. She worked hard to put herself through college. Was has been working since the age of fourteen and graduated high school in just 3 years. In this episode, Lynne explains that she was shaped greatly by her mother, brothers, and uncles. Her mother was very intelligent and went back to school at an older age. She successfully graduated high school, college, and graduate school at a time when women didn’t do this....

Mirabai found herself moving from working on her Ph.D. in a very tumultuous university environment in the midst of the political unrest in the late 19060s. In a search to find another way of being Mirabai began her journey around the world. She began in Europe and started working her way East across the country traveling by land across the Middle East, through the mountains of a very peaceful Afghanistan and Pakistan and eventually found her way to India. She didn’t have a desire to learn meditation, but when she got to India there was a ten-day meditation instruction being offered to westerners for the first time by a Burmese teacher. Having never crossed her legs and meditated this was a very new experience for her. The first three days was just focused on cultivating a one pointed attention, and from there they were then able to begin learning how to direct her attention towards a specified path. Mirabai ended up taking 3-4 more courses in a row. She thought she would stay for two weeks in India but stayed for two years. Mirabai started a small company with her husband at the time in the 1970s. Having a small business that lasted about 13 years. It employed around one-hundred people, she was able to experiment with meditation and mindfulness practices as part of her company’s culture. Beginning in 1995, she started bringing mindfulness into corporate America. Her early perspectives on mindfulness came from a literature background. She was constantly looking to the outside for a deeper understanding. It wasn’t until she began her mindfulness practice in India that she began to build her understanding of herself. Mirabai explained that, “It had never occurred to me to look inside my own mind to understand more deeply the nature of reality.” “I also saw that by looking at my own mind, first through these practices I could get calm, quiet, and stable enough to be able to look at my own mind. Before that there was so much busyness in there from always trying to take information from the outside and stirring it up… I began to see that we can understand a lot about reality, about inner and outer reality, by simply looking at our own minds.” Mirabai described her early understandings from her mindfulness practice as an awakening. “I began to see how I was creating a lot of the problems in my life, emotions would arise and I would act on them without recognizing that I had a choice. I was so identified with my thoughts and my emotions… I better get really angry about that, without even thinking ‘I better get angry’, but just immediately having that response of being really angry.” “When your awareness gets refined enough you can begin to sense an emotion like that as a sensation in the body, anger, jealousy, envy, the whole range. You begin to sense it in your body, and then you begin to recognize that.” She then continued to explain that you begin to recognize ti earlier and stopping and returning to a practice of breathing. From that you begin to realize that you are not your anger. “In the moment that you have the choice to act on it or not to act, that gives you a lot of freedom.” “We are really our awareness, and as we begin to become more familiar with the part of us that is not the thought”. “You are not your thoughts, you have the choice to act on it or not.” “Mindfulness is very simple, but is not easy to do, because the mind is so busy.” Mirabai continued to explain that we usually use the breath, and even then the mind runs away so quickly. By maintaining a level of patience, and cultivating a sense of non-judging, you may begin to gain much more freedom in your life. In the workplace Mirabai gave a number of reasons how mindfulness can support and help you through your workday. “The benefits of mindfulness don’t stop at the end of the workday, they are the same qualities and capacities that make a successful home life as well.” Mirabai Bush made it a point to explain that integrating mindfulness into...

Adam Voci is a graduate of Harvard Business School, a former intelligence officer for the United States Air Force, certified Crossfit Trainer, and current Development Director in Washington DC for CRC Companies. He is an experienced leader and has a history of seeking to help those in his charge grow in their career field and holistically. Adam was the 8th military academy graduate in his family. He described an attitude of winning in his family, mentioning that while effort is important in the end it comes down to an ability to be both effective and efficient. He described his parents philosophy as slowly providing him more free reign on his life as he continued to demonstrate greater levels of responsibility. This was coupled with an intentional approach to develop personal agency by learning how to do things on his own. This sense of an ever increasing level of responsibility doesn’t just mimic a great environment to grow up but also provides insights into the world of work, by providing ever more complex tasks, and ever more autonomy in one’s work. This is a topic that is also tied to Self Determination Theory. When he got to the Air Force Academy he had to face a harsh reality that when ranked by classmates he was either first or last. He linked this back to his childhood where he would architect situations where he would come out on top. His remarks about his professional career in the military and at HBS echoed his upbringing, where he described that, by doing your job really well, or just learning something new quickly, people recognize you for it. He further emphasized that even if you are struggling, don’t be afraid to ask questions and expose weaknesses. This is a lesson he honed in on while at Harvard Business School. Adam explained one mistake he believed he made was choosing a career field, intelligence, in the Air Force that didn’t naturally fit his personality. He worked hard to leverage his skills to promote the development of his subordinates and ended up working towards pararescue. His best moments were flying over the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in Iraq. But in the end getting his MBA at Harvard Business School (HBS) won. Adam worked to start his own business during his time at HBS. Throughout his life he described taking pride in applying pressure to his environment to create change. He explained that he sees business and entrepreneurship as a component of this process. Among many leadership development processes Adam discussed, he found Crossfit to be one of the best. He described Crossfit as one of the most powerful behavioral change agents in the world. It began with 15 affiliates in 2005 and grew to 13,000 by 2015. He made it a point to mention that a crossfit gym can be one of the best leadership laboratory. He witnessed his subordinates get stronger, that people don’t know what they are capable of until you are not afraid to fail. Crossfit creates the environment and opportunity to try with the support to fail. Adam described the experience as a Crossfitter to promote intensity in a workout, regardless of size, experience, or lack of experience. Adam explained that when he challenges his subordinates to engage in crossfit, he would have them write down three things you want to be better at in your life. After doing crossfit for 6 months his subordinates would admit that other areas of their lives would improve as well. He explained that it forced them out of their comfort zone, focused on personal improvement, with Incremental victories. As soon as people start to taste progress they are hooked. Since Adam left HBS, he has joined a real estate company. He was happy to find a company where their culture works for him, with small number of employees, where he has a lot of autonomy. He has had the opportunity to work with design thinking, and business to support the wounded warriors, around the DC area and is extremely happy to have found this position. Adam’s journey to find his path came...

Dan Fisher is a recent graduate of the dual Harvard Business School and Harvard Kennedy School. He is a former active duty Infantry officer with the United States Army, having served in Afghanistan. His service continued as a veteran’s field office representative working for US House Representative Joe Courtney. He is an experienced servant leader who provides us insights to his personal development, and his perspective of leading. Dan’s early experience in High School catalyzed his self image around being a great athlete having succeeded as a basketball player. Looking forward this sense of self led him to reauthor his sense of self after leaving Amherst as a Sophomore and transferred to Stanford as an incoming Junior to be able to remake himself. This freedom provided him the opportunity to remove the external pressures of his past worlds as a college athlete and allowed him to open up some mental space. He described meeting a friend at Stanford who provided a new perspective in political, social, and interpersonal contexts. It provided him the opportunity to experience the perspectives of others and to increase the size of his world. Following graduation, Dan made the decision to join the United States Army, where he became an Infantry Officer. He began this experience at the ground level and had the opportunity to relearn humility. This was a challenge to his internal perspective of self, that even though he had been told he was smart his entire life here he faced new challenges that he hadn’t been equipped to face. Dan’s decision to join the Army, at a time when no one from Stanford even considered making such a decision. He decided to avoid staying comfortable and to experience a broader range of experience to become a part of the Army. During his first experience as an Army Officer he found that he needed to become a learning entity within the organization. He found that just listening, getting input from others, and learning his position and the tasks around him it was a way for him to test his assumptions of himself. “In order to be a leader in this organization, that establishing credibility was important, and credibility came in many forms… it was about some kind of human dimension where I would have more of it and therefore be more effective if I engaged in the simple act of listening.” Dan describes the ability to create a sense of relatedness with those in the organizations he led. He found that maintaining a deep sense of humility and humbleness created the space for others to feel comfortable with him, and to feel more invested in the organization. Dan further described the act of listening coupled with his ability to remain humble, was a means to increase his informal authority. It increased his ability to engage with his subordinates and to move his organization to engage at high levels of efficiency. His work to cultivate a sense of relatedness he was able to build a high degree of trust. This trust was increased through Dan’s personal acts of sacrifice to be the first one to arrive and the last one to leave. His acts of persistence to make the development of the organization he led prompted others to see that dedication and to support him in his work to make it better. In preparation for Dan’s deployment to Afghanistan, he sought the counsel of others following some very intense training to gain the additional confidence to know he was ready. As he describes the feedback he received confirmed this for him. Dan explained that him coming into his own as a combat leader in Afghanistan became about getting into the routine of his deployment. This allowed him to recognize that he could lead people in these difficult situations and to be able to assure them that he was capable of this task, and that he was doing a good job. When it came to the moment that Dan’s platoon finally took contact he felt like he knew exactly what to do. While there are better things that could have happened, he had the...

Jason Connell is an entrepreneur, leadership coach, consultant, author, and is human. He began his career at a young age as a professional child magician, tricking adults with illusions. He is an incredibly motivational individual who brings about inspiring transformation for those he interacts with. “Your relationship with yourself is the single most important relationship in your life.” “At least I lived while I was alive.” “Your leadership has to come from your truth, it has to come from your core or you will never be able to play at the highest level you are capable of…Realize that that truth and that core evolves you will not be the same man or woman at 40 that you were at 20 and if you are the exact same man or women you at 40 that you were at 20 you are probably done something wrong and you are probably living in denial of your truth and your reality.” “One of the craziest things I see people do is they screw over their future self because they are not willing to experience a small amount of discomfort in the moment and often times it’s that ability to experience what truly is for most people a small amount of discomfort in any given moment that unlocks a much brighter and bolder future.” Jason shifted from describing the experiences he had dreaming of starting his own business, and felt jarred when he lost all his savings and failed to realize the dream that he had hoped things would happen. He describes his hidden assumptions as a level of ignorance that actually appeared as confidence. What was outside his awareness was the day to day of running and marketing a business. Jason has focused on how do you help someone become a full manifestation of themselves. And he describes how this occurs through mentorship, help from the outside, coupled with meditation and reflection. It was his support from someone outside his reality, that helped him understand that what he thought was real work was far from it. He created smaller steps that were approachable and was something that he could engage in. This understanding of personal change allowed him to make the huge growth in his business gradually. Jason explained that intuition was at the core of what led him down the direction he took. This was reinforced as he went step by step towards his intended outcome. He was buying the illusion that it mattered if someone rejects him, and he over came this by asking, “what is the worst thing that would happen if he engaged in that behavior.” His answer was that it would typically hurt a little. He described his fight against himself at an earlier age where his self pretended that what he was doing was hard or that things might not work out. He suggested to pay careful attention to the feelings inside, there is a small kernel inside you that knows that everything will be ok, and let go of the 99% of the games where you pretend to doubt yourself. Treat yourself like a human, increase your levels of self-compassion. It will bring about a level of forgiveness for your flaws. In essence, stop punishing yourself for being human, let it go. In addition, the belief that everything will be ok, is at the core of what you will need to engage with. “Your relationship with yourself is the single most important relationship in your life.” Below are some suggestions to increasing your self compassion from Jason. Jason also recommended increasing your ability to monitor yourself. Meditate, journaling, self-interviewing, create the opportunities for you to understand yourself and build a higher level of self-awareness. Being the ideal version of yourself you will need to take a step each day or week towards that. Being reflective about taking action is essential to understanding if that direction is essential for you. Always be curious about yourself. People don’t work in a way that creates massive change is a quick way, it comes gradually after repeatedly taking small steps. Jason brought us back to a sense that failure is a judgment...

Jason Connell is an entrepreneur, leadership coach, consultant, author, and is human. He began his career at a young age as a professional child magician, tricking adults with illusions. He is an incredibly motivational individual who brings about inspiring transformation for those he interacts with. “Your relationship with yourself is the single most important relationship in your life.” “At least I lived while I was alive.” “Your leadership has to come from your truth, it has to come from your core or you will never be able to play at the highest level you are capable of…Realize that that truth and that core evolves you will not be the same man or woman at 40 that you were at 20 and if you are the exact same man or women you at 40 that you were at 20 you are probably done something wrong and you are probably living in denial of your truth and your reality.” “One of the craziest things I see people do is they screw over their future self because they are not willing to experience a small amount of discomfort in the moment and often times it’s that ability to experience what truly is for most people a small amount of discomfort in any given moment that unlocks a much brighter and bolder future.” Jason shifted from describing the experiences he had dreaming of starting his own business, and felt jarred when he lost all his savings and failed to realize the dream that he had hoped things would happen. He describes his hidden assumptions as a level of ignorance that actually appeared as confidence. What was outside his awareness was the day to day of running and marketing a business. Jason has focused on how do you help someone become a full manifestation of themselves. And he describes how this occurs through mentorship, help from the outside, coupled with meditation and reflection. It was his support from someone outside his reality, that helped him understand that what he thought was real work was far from it. He created smaller steps that were approachable and was something that he could engage in. This understanding of personal change allowed him to make the huge growth in his business gradually. Jason explained that intuition was at the core of what led him down the direction he took. This was reinforced as he went step by step towards his intended outcome. He was buying the illusion that it mattered if someone rejects him, and he over came this by asking, “what is the worst thing that would happen if he engaged in that behavior.” His answer was that it would typically hurt a little. He described his fight against himself at an earlier age where his self pretended that what he was doing was hard or that things might not work out. He suggested to pay careful attention to the feelings inside, there is a small kernel inside you that knows that everything will be ok, and let go of the 99% of the games where you pretend to doubt yourself. Treat yourself like a human, increase your levels of self-compassion. It will bring about a level of forgiveness for your flaws. In essence, stop punishing yourself for being human, let it go. In addition, the belief that everything will be ok, is at the core of what you will need to engage with. “Your relationship with yourself is the single most important relationship in your life.” Below are some suggestions to increasing your self compassion from Jason. Jason also recommended increasing your ability to monitor yourself. Meditate, journaling, self-interviewing, create the opportunities for you to understand yourself and build a higher level of self-awareness. Being the ideal version of yourself you will need to take a step each day or week towards that. Being reflective about taking action is essential to understanding if that direction is essential for you. Always be curious about yourself. People don’t work in a way that creates massive change is a quick way, it comes gradually after repeatedly taking small steps. Jason brought us back to a sense that failure is a judgment...

Michael Nagle is a transformational leadership consultant and coach. He has tremendous experience as an executive leadership coaching pharmaceutical companies. His insights into personal change in the workplace lends directly to our broader conversation of development in the workplace. Michael and Adam met during an Immunity to Change facilitator’s program and discussed both the power and experience of this coaching methodology. Michael talked about his work as an executive coach supporting rapid behavior change. Michael expresses belief in the individual wholeness of his clients. He sees himself as a trusted partner through the change process. He is not here to fix his clients, but to support their work that brings about their desired change. He emphasized a level of mindfulness in his work. He mentioned Carl Rogers and his description of unconditional positive regard. In supporting another’s change whether as a leader, coach, or supportive peer focusing on empathic listening (hearing and feeling their emotions). It is essential to not allow a judging presence to enter the space, but to just be mindful in the space. Don’t be afraid to expose weaknesses early on, so you can get rid of them over time. This episode brought in the support of mindfulness in personal change and into the workplace. It is a tool to be able to work past anxieties, or embedded voices that seek to hold you back and to work through them and to tackle the personal change you wish to achieve. This can often include negative past influences that have remained with us. This allows you to begin to bring into control the internal monologue that so often exists in most people’s minds. Michael discussed with us valuable techniques to support their co-workers by valuing difference in others. Simply being aware and seeking an understanding both of those around them and their own perceptions of them allows people to change their actions towards others. He discussed his most powerful experience in developing his own self-awareness. Michael explained that Jungian psychoanalysis of his dreams brought about an exploration of his own unconscious. He realized that his Type-A father, created a lot of unconscious behavior that brought about both positive and negative outcomes. Be sure to listen to the podcast to hear Michael describe a series of dreams he had that helped him understand his unconscious self. You can learn more about Michael’s work at his website Welcome

Austin Hulbert is currently a Harvard Business School Candidate. He flew as a Strike Fighter Pilot flying for the US Navy and spent time as a fighter pilot instructor for the Navy, training a new generation of American fighter pilots. Directly from Austin: “I’m not any better because of my experiences, I’m not any worse because of it, I’m just different… and that’s the most important thing about leadership.” “You can’t fake car[e] about someone because… when you don’t care about someone… you’re tacitly saying, ‘I think I’m better than you or you’re not worth my effort. You have to genuinely care about people to lead them.’” “Push yourself a little bit at a time, and if you’re going to do something that is non-standard you have to think about it beforehand and say, ok on this time I’m going to be more aggressive here because I think I can do it.” “Pushing yourself little by little to make yourself better… gives you the hindsight to say, ‘Wow I was pushing myself too much back then or I wasn’t pushing myself enough back then’, and that can shape your future of how you look at pushing the boundaries.” During this episode, he shared stories about the loss of a parent and its impact on his views on life and leadership. It was clear in our conversation that he is an individual who is constantly seeking personal growth and development. Austin did this so often that he found moments where he got ahead of himself. It was through asking big life questions that he was able to shift his mindset to chasing things to enjoying the precious moments of life. Austin discussed the challenge of learning how to provide honest and open feedback to subordinates, and the uniqueness of allowing the context of your situation to inform decisions in how you lead. As a student (Cadet) leader at the Naval Academy, he learned the importance of modeling behavior, to motivate and inspire others. He described how maintaining high expectations for yourself directly influences the decisions and actions of your subordinates. As a student (cadet) leader at the Naval Academy, he learned the importance of modeling behavior, to motivate and inspire others. He described how maintaining high expectations for yourself directly influences the decisions and actions of your subordinates. As a fellow member of the military, we understand the power of peer leadership rotations. They are the hardest people to take leadership of because everyone is on the same playing field. This is where Austin honed his ability to motivate people, “not being a jerk”, and how to relate to others even better. He shared a moment of failure with us from his days as a flight instructor. When he was unprepared it really showed. And just disappointing one person was enough for him to double down on his efforts to ensure that it didn’t happen again. “The best advice my mom gave me – you are no better than the people you lead. It is just a different path. Not better just different.” You can find Austin at his linkedin account below. https://www.linkedin.com/in/austinhulbert

Dr. Mark Biddle is a professional leadership trainer, coach, educator, and founder of Dalton Corner Coaching. Mark’s experience ranges from serving as a minister in Chicago, to leading experiential leadership in the MBA program at Babson College. He also completed the Immunity to Change Coaching Program from Minds at Work. Past Experiences Mark has been a leader in various ways. In college he organized nonviolent actions against army the vietnam war. In his early years, there was no set notion of what it meant to be a leader, but rather it was something imposed on the individual. The Center for Creative Leadership (CCL) Articles Mentioned: Petrie, Nick. Vertical Leadership Development-Part1 – Developing Leaders for a Complex World Petrie, Nick. The How-To of Vertical Leadership Development – Part 2 – 30 Experts, 3 Conditions, and 15 Approaches Vertical Development – Suggests a progression of ego development to broaden and deepen your understanding of yourself, your values, and your relational existence in the world you inhabit. Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization Co-Authored with Lisa Lahey (2009) Personal change identified in the realm of MTBI assessments having been an individual who tended to move along Thinking and Judging (TJ) side than realized he needed to shift to an Extroversion, Intuition, Feeling, Perceiving (ENFP) role for his position. Meyers-Briggs Personality Types – Seeks to “make the insights of type theory accessible to individuals and groups.” Pulling from Jung’s Theory and working to identify “16 distinctive personality types that result from the interactions among the preferences.” Take the Myers-Briggs Test Kegan and Orders of Mind There is a distinct difference between improving skills and meaning making. Learning to make sense with greater complexity deals with deepening your meaning making. Kegan’s work Orders of Mind can help you understand how people understand the world. Mark described that there is an evolutionary process of further developing your ability to make meaning in the world. Kegan’s Orders of Mind can be more deeply understood via this Stanford Article and The Developmental Observer Blog. Orders of Mind in a Religious Notion Mark worked with congregation members who were head of law firms, hospitals, and small businesses. The main issue congregation members faced was where they stood as individuals in their faith. It was not uncommon for ministers coming out of seminaries who studied the bible to whole heartedly believe the dogma that was prescribed. These young ministers easily got into arguments regarding interpretations, as it sometimes differed from how they were told to interpret the texts. Understanding where someone is in their meaning making system (in the example of the ministers, in a socialized mind) can help you understand how they see the world. Essential to Supporting Leaders’ Development The most important thing to keep in mind in supporting another’s development, comes from understanding the context they are coming from. This paired with an understanding of their emotional and cognitive processes they are going through at their level of development. You want to give them opportunity to cultivate opportunities to develop in their life real. Mark described one of his clients who imagined an imaginary scorecard. This scorecard identified what it meant to be a good minister. Some of Mark’s work with this client supported his ability to help him look deeply at his assumptions, and begin to test them. How do assumptions hold people back from being more successful? In terms of the pastor, the scorecard was unrealistic. It sustained a level of judging himself that made his work seem like a “hopeless task”. After a good amount of coaching, the pastor realized that , he couldn’t do everything that the parish wanted, but he could be helpful in his own way. The pastor developed an increasing level of...

Alice has had an amazing journey in supporting leaders through their own development and the development of the organizations they lead. She is an authentic leader, environmentalist, and passionate supporter of people’s’ growth. Directly from Alice: “Psychological growth and awareness is absolutely the cornerstone of leadership.” “You really need to go through [the swamp through the pain] … to be aware of your own emotions, to not be hijacked by them and to recognize them for what they are.” “Responding rather than reacting as things happen and then to be able to help other people to see” when they may be ‘hijacked.’” In this episode, Alice shared many stories from her upbringing and experiences as a coach and consultant. She helped ground us in the concepts of some amazing experts in the field including Chris Argyris, Don Schon, and Robert Kegan. Her work is not only clearly based in proven research and theory, but also reinforced by her tremendous experiences. She was open and honest in sharing mistakes she made in her experiences as a coach and leader, while offering suggestions to overcome bias and the ladder of inference. Alice emphasized the concepts of double loop learning, deep reflection, and the ladder of inference and explained how these concepts apply directly to leading. Alice then brought our conversation towards emotional intelligence and the power of simply being aware of the feelings you have in the moment to increase your ability to understand and regulate your emotions. We talked about the role of evaluation, expectations, and failure in organizations and how these elements can align themselves in ways that can either hold us back or accelerate our growth. You can find Alice at her website www.alicenichols.com or on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/alice-nichols-8954771