Money Maze Podcast

Some of our conversations are deliberately different, and the man I interview here has cost me a lot of money! I also consider him a friend and somebody whose perspective I have valued. It could be said that Neil Woodford, CBE, has had a career of two halves, the first of which encompassed extraordinary investment success at Invesco Perpetual and then at Woodford Investment Management (2014-2019). At its peak, Woodford’s business managed £15bn and was backed by Hargreaves Lansdowne and St. James’s Place. Its clients included Kent County Council’s pension fund, a range of wealth management firms and 300,000+ retail investors. Yet in 2019 the fund was suspended and then liquidated, following a shift in asset allocation from blue-chip public equities to illiquid, unlisted companies (he denies this was the cause of the collapse in this discussion). In the run up to the collapse, he experienced approximately £7bn of outflows. Using an investment lens, here we try to examine and understand what went right, what went wrong and now what may lie ahead. Neil remains under investigation by the UK Financial Conduct Authority at the time of this interview (March 2025). ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, World Gold Council, LSEG and IFM Investors. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

In the world of mythology, Apollo is one the most revered and significant of all the ancient Greek and Roman Gods. It was also the name given to an asset management business created in 1990 and today with assets of over $750 billion*, it’s a leading provider of alternative asset management and retirement solutions. In this conversation we understand Apollo’s growth, reach and specialisations. More importantly we discuss the convergence of the public and private asset management industries, where the accelerating marriage of alternatives and traditional assets appears irreversible. From institutional portfolios, now expanding into individual allocations, the trend appears early in its evolution. Scott Kleinman, Co-President of Apollo Asset Management, reviews the liquidity aspects implied by this phenomenon. He discusses the role of banks, where regulation has allowed the growth of non-bank enterprises like Apollo to blossom, and the trade-offs, risk, reward and liquidity, investors will make. He also describes opportunities and challenges, outside of the US where capital is less abundant, and securitisation malfunctioning. Finally, Scott offers some great advice to youth that “you can’t escape hard work” and “you should never stop asking why?!” The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube | As of 31st December 2024

When Warren Buffet singles you out for praise, it might be fair to say you have summited the investment equivalent of K2, Annapurna and Kangchenjunga, the most challenging of mountain peaks! In a capricious investing world, where success is often transient, reputations easily tarnished and hubris punished, to have not only stayed the course for 55 years, but thrived, built Oaktree Capital into one of the largest investors in distressed securities worldwide and cemented a vast loyal following is extraordinary. His investment memos written over the years are world class: engaging, lucid and approachable. In this 1 hour conversation, Howard shares some of his most important investing lessons. It’s a conversation everyone interested in investing should hear. Howard explains, why it’s not what you buy, it’s what you pay that counts, why you need to be contrarian to succeed in investing, why over confidence is the enemy of performance, and - given the inevitable nature of cycles - why he subscribes to Voltaire’s comment that “history never repeats itself, but man always does”. And that is before he discusses the role of luck, the future of the US, the “illusion of knowledge”, and much more with one of the investment greats! ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, World Gold Council, LSEG and IFM Investors. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

In this episode we’ve been very fortunate to find someone who ranks amongst the most qualified anywhere in the world to discuss this topic. He was the former CFO of Billiton, then as CEO, built Xstrata into one of the world’s largest diversified mining companies, helping grow their market value from US$500m to US$60bn, at one point employing over 90,000 people. In this conversation we examine the most important supply and demand mismatches of critical materials. We assess the energy transition, discuss where the opportunities and challenges lie, what Vision Blue Resources is seeking to build, and how investors are positioned. We expand the conversation to discuss valuation opportunities in the wider commodity space, geopolitical hotspots and their implications for commodity prices. Mick also talks about effective management, building optionality into your business and why investors misunderstand how mining companies frequently demonstrate much better governance and responsibility than standard thinking suggests. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Star Trek’s opening lines were potent: "Space: The final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its mission? To boldly go where no man has gone before!” Whether Star Trek or Star Wars, such films offered tantalising glimpses of another world. But it’s actually here now! The WEF & McKinsey predict that the space sector will reach a value of $1.8tn by 2035. That’s only 1 decade ahead! Mark is CEO of the world’s first listed space tech fund, Seraphim Space, and he discusses this final frontier. He explains what is going on in the world of space and where there is money to be made. Mark first discusses why Elon Musk has transformed the industry by lowering the price point of launch in such a gargantuan way and why the worlds of public and private are scrambling for a piece of the action. He describes their investment process, how targets are identified, weighed, and capital allocated. He explains why data, digital infrastructure, communications, health and space debris are priorities, with their emphasis on profitable, shorter term opportunities. He discusses why the militaries are disproportionately investing, where he thinks money will be made, and why the Seraphim Investment Trust’s discount is a source of continued frustration. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, World Gold Council, LSEG and IFM Investors. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

In today’s episode we have the chance to talk to one of the most successful investors of his generation, James Anderson, Former Partner at Baillie Gifford. I'm joined by Mark Wallace, MD of Rothschild & Co, who brings his expertise on US tech equities to this discussion. From 1987 until 2022 he led their flagship fund, the Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust. His early investments in Google through to Tesla paid handsome returns to investors, and have made him both highly respected and widely admired. Now he is at Lingotto, the independent investment management company wholly owned by Exor N.V.. James discusses how his approach to evaluating companies has evolved and what he means by “the normal ways of looking at companies is no longer valid”. He discusses companies’ life cycles and why such a small percentage of listed companies actually deliver the big returns. He then reflects on the importance of the academic community in sourcing, as well as validating investment ideas before moving on to the vision exhibited by founders and vested principals in newer businesses, from Amazon to Tesla. He describes his investing priorities thematically, including risks, mistakes, accessing long-term capital and why Europe seems to lack ambition in both seizing and scaling the opportunities. Finally, he reflects on the public versus private debate, asking and answering the question as to which of those two may be the better sources of return. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Enjoy a variety of career tips & life lessons from finance leaders in this New Year compilation special. This episode brings together some of the most insightful lessons and perspectives we’ve gleaned from past guests, covering everything from life wisdom to industry-specific strategies. You’ll hear from an extraordinary lineup, including Sir Chris Hohn, Nicolai Tangen, Mathieu Chabran, David Neal, Ray Dalio, Baroness Dambisa Moyo, and Suyi Kim. But that’s not all—we’ve also included insights from David Schwimmer, Ian Charles, Mark Delaney, Colm Kelleher, Marcie Frost, Anthony Scaramucci, Scott Guthrie, Emmanuel Roman, and Sir Tony Blair. We hope you find this useful! ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, World Gold Council, IFM Investors and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Today is the first time we welcome back a guest who has changed firms between interviews. We recorded Luba Nikulina, on Thanksgiving day, 2022, and our guest was then Head Global of Research at WTW, an organisation advising on over $3 trillion of assets. Today Luba is the Chief Strategy Officer at IFM Investors, a leading asset manager in infrastructure with a significant presence in other asset management capabilities. Luba explains the switch, and unpacks the investment thesis behind the increasing inclusion of infrastructure in institutional portfolios. She reflects on its position within the growing private assets sleeve of allocators, and why Australia and Canada have adopted significantly larger allocations of 10-20%, but why many other major countries are now building theirs. She assesses infrastructure’s risks, rewards and liquidity characteristics. She explains the barriers to competition, the projects involved, including bridges, toll roads, data centres and new energy assets. In short she would say it’s the “buoyant, brilliant ballast in the investment boat”. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

In this episode, Simon shares an update on the show, reflecting on notable interviews and summarising the wide range of initiatives under development beyond the Money Maze Podcast itself. Although we have said this for each of the 5 years since we started, this year has been incredibly exciting, surpassing both out expectations, and 2+ million global downloads, officially releasing over 200 episodes since starting the podcast in 2020. In the last few months, we’ve been lucky enough to feature Scott Bessent, Trump’s appointed Secretary of State, Cliff Asness of AQR, Colm Kelleher of UBS, David Schwimmer of LSEG, Mark Delaney of Australian Super, Suyi Kim of CPP Investments, Marcie Frost of CalPERS, Baroness Dambisa Moyo and many more. We’ve also had the privilege of hosting some of the most significant figures within geopolitics, such as former UK Prime Minister, Sir Tony Blair, and General Patrick Sanders, just retired head of the British army. Browse our channel to listen! Plus, check out our other initiatives: Money Maze Learn, Money Maze Multilingual, Money Maze Curated Podcasts, and our YouTube channel for full video interviews. We also offer a select number of internships, mostly over the summer. Otherwise, we wish our listeners and viewers an enjoyable festive break! ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

With Christmas coming up, we thought today would be the perfect time to replay one of our older episodes! Very occasionally one individual can have a disproportionately powerful impact on a collection of people, but very rarely does that person’s impact grow in time and reach, and expand beyond anyone’s expectations and for millions, be responsible for enhancing their lives. In this episode we explore a slightly different realm: religion. Our guest, the Reverend Nicky Gumbel, talks of his own odyssey from barrister to clergyman, before widening both awareness and access to Christianity to those outside the church via the Alpha Course. Alpha - a term which we usually employ in a very different context on the podcast - effectively rebranded and modernised Christianity for a new generation in the 1990s, with tens of thousands of courses being run by the end of the decade. The programme has now been translated into 112 different languages, and 30 million people have taken part. In this interview he explains his own pivot to faith, how he was asked to take charge of the Alpha Course development, and in the subsequent years how its reach was extended globally. He explains how he built it into a global brand, how charismatic leadership can be relevant to all fields, the changing relationship between faith and secularism, the role of religion for prisoner rehabilitation, as well as thoughts on morality, money and giving! ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Today’s guest is the new US Treasury Secretary, serving under Donald Trump. The role gives him immense responsibility for managing US obligations and finances, including circa. $7 trillion of annual US federal spending, the $35+ trillion fiscal debt pile and continued inflationary pressures on both US businesses and consumers. Prior to this, Scott was a globally respected and market-moving hedge fund investor. He was key player on the George Soros's team, who in 1992 helped the Quantum Fund make $1bn, shorting sterling ahead of the UK’s withdrawal from the ERM. Then, as Soros’s CIO, he was also dubbed ‘The Man Who Broke the Bank of Japan’ by the Wall Street Journal, making approximately $3.5bn on the Abenomics trade from 2012-2015! Scott is widely acknowledged to be one of the world’s most highly respected macro hedge fund managers, and is the Founder of Key Square Capital Management. He has also taught financial history at Yale and is a prominent philanthropist. In this episode, Scott explains the key ingredients in being a macro manager. He charts his journey, working with legendary investors such as Stan Druckenmiller and George Soros. He opines on a range of key investment themes, including his thoughts on de-dollarisation, debt, commodities, the Ukraine rebuild, and AI. He also shares his analysis of the fast-evolving markets in both China and Japan. Scott goes on to discuss risk, when and how he sizes positions, signposts that influence conviction, and dealing with information overload. A tour de force! Interview originally recorded in September 2023. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

In 1932, the United States was in the grip of the Great Depression. One in four Americans were unemployed, nearly 9,000 banks had failed. Franklin Roosevelt was elected to the first of his four terms as President of the United States, and a retirement system for state employees was established in California. It became the California Public Employees' Retirement System (CalPERS). Today it’s America’s largest public pension fund, managing over $500bn (as of July 2024). In this conversation, Marcie explains her journey to the helm of the organisation that is CalPERS today, and its over 2 million beneficiaries. She discusses unfunded liabilities, and the balance between strategic and tactical allocation. She continues in reviewing their approach to active v passive in equity and fixed income. She discusses allocations to private equity and private debt, to hedge funds and real estate, and why their allocations to infrastructure are likely to increase. She reflects on the intense scrutiny of being a highly visible public entity, and how divestment is not their first response in industries like energy, even though sustainability is a key priority. She concludes with thoughts on culture, leadership, CalPERS being more nimble, and some great advice for females in finance. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, World Gold Council and LSEG. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

The episode brings Sir Patrick Sanders, a British military officer, back to discuss geopolitical issues, specifically focusing on the precarious state of global affairs today compared to the 1930s. The conversation delves into the complexities surrounding Donald Trump's foreign policy perceptions and Norway SWF's approach to defence sector exclusions. This episode was recorded in Norway at the Grieg Conference, organized by Grieg Investor. They’re an independent investment adviser for institutional investors in Norway representing over 170 clients, and part of the Grieg Group. Sir Patrick elaborates on Trump's stance towards Russia, emphasizing Trump's unpredictable yet impactful actions, such as his claim of ending the Ukrainian war swiftly—a stance deemed as 'magical realism.' Furthermore, the dialogue explores Trump's potential impact on Middle Eastern politics, highlighting challenges like balancing Israeli interests and Iran's geopolitical maneuvers without igniting broader conflicts. As the conversation transitions, China's influence and the West's strategy against a backdrop of escalating global competition are scrutinized, touching upon key ideologies in play. The podcast episode draws attention to urgent strategic choices required by Western nations, navigating the significant challenges posed by the geopolitical landscape amidst technological advances. Insights on investment implications arising from these geopolitical tensions, such as defense and AI sectors, are also discussed by Sir Patrick and Simon.

Technological revolutions are by their nature rare events: the printing press, mobile telephony and the internet. The associated excitement can capture the imagination, spur a raft of associated breakthroughs, encourage investors to dream of extraordinary returns, yet their byproduct is often to create excessive short-term exuberance, and expectations that might be correct in time, but invariably expect too much, too soon. Scott Guthrie understands this space better than most, being a Microsoft lifer who has been at the epicentre of their success in Cloud and now AI, overseeing the development of both the Azure and Copilot products. Alongside Simon, the discussion is co-hosted by Rob Rooney. Rob is the former CEO of Morgan Stanley International and was their Global Head of Technology and Operations. He now runs two fintech firms: HyperJar and Hyperlayer. Scott begins by explaining why investors & business alike should look beyond the typical 1-2 year timelines used in common AI narratives, and instead examine the potential 5-10 year outlook for the technology. He then shares some practical examples of how AI may cut costs & boost productivity for finance firms, why they’ve partnered with LSEG, and their reasons for building a staggering 500 new data centres globally! In the wide ranging interview recorded at the LSEG Tech Leaders Summit ,he covers the central questions surrounding AI: Is it really a new game changer? How will it play out? Will regulation stifle or stimulate progress? How does it recalibrate productivity? Do we even have the electricity to support it? And how is AI being integrated into the burgeoning cloud industry? ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored bySchroders, IFM Investors and the World Gold Council. We’re pleased to now announce our fourth sponsor: LSEG! Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Four years ago we had the chance to record a US election special ahead of the vote to determine whether Joe Biden or Donald Trump became President. We welcomed Anthony Scaramucci; Harvard Law, Goldman Sachs, political fundraiser and, for 11 dramatic days, Donald Trump‘s Director of Communications. Since then he has developed his finance business, run the SALT conferences, been a crypto evangelist and in addition - possibly inspired by his experience on the Money Maze Podcast - has become the co-host of the Rest is Politics US with Katy Kay (a high quality show which we recommend). In this conversation he discusses Trump, including some candid thoughts on his character and what may lie ahead if he wins. He then assesses the question of immigration, and if this election “will decide whether we continue to lead on freedom, economic innovation and multilateralism”. He assesses why crypto should rise tenfold, how the debt challenge could be addressed, how he has managed setbacks and what resilience means to him, all with a ton of energy! ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors and the World Gold Council.

This recording took place at the London Value Investor Conference over summer, where Simon hosted a discussion with Joel Greenblatt. Joel not only founded and runs Gotham Asset Management, but was also an adjunct professor at Columbia Business School for 20+ years. Joel previously ran Gotham Capital, where he achieved 50% annualised returns between 1985-1994 (34.4% net). Joel also helped Michael Burry set up Scion Capital in 2000. In this discussion, Joel offers some exceptionally valuable insights into the issues of active versus passive, if valuation works pays, the need for patience, thoughts on concentration, and learning from mistakes. He talks on the need for detailed valuation work in order to identify compelling valuation opportunities, but also of the need for patience for the market to recognise such situations. He advocates passive for those ill-equipped to undertake detailed valuation work, and also recognises the challenges of owning too many overvalued and insufficient undervalued companies when you are passively invested. He then explains how the best way to learn from one’s investing mistakes is to lose amounts of money that matter. Joel goes on to acknowledge that he would have been fired several times over, had it not been his own firm! A treasure trove of advice from a pro! The interview is followed by a short Q&A. Thanks to the following for their contributions here: Steve Clapham of Behind the Balance Sheet, Mark Rubenstein of HPS Investment Partners, Ajit Dayal of Quantum Advisors India, and Cole Smead of Smead Capital Management. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors, and the World Gold Council. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Today we travel back to Melbourne, Australia, having had previous conversations with Ben Samild (now CIO of the AFF) & David Neal (CEO of IFM Investors). AustralianSuper, Australia’s largest super fund, manages approximately USD $230bn for 3.4m members. Mark Delaney has been at its helm as CIO for almost 20 years. Mark describes the goals, the organisation and its investment principles. He explains why Australia consolidated its pension industry and the benefits it has reaped for pensioners and the economy. He discusses approaching global equities, why infrastructure is the “ballast in the boat”, his favourable view of private equity and why he likes active over passive. He also covers how he accesses commodity exposure, and why you can’t worry about the markets when he’s on his surfboard trying to catch a wave! ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors and the World Gold Council. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Sovereign wealth funds, private equity, Hollywood actors; the world of sports has been undergoing an investing revolution. The last few years have seen a quantum increase of new investors, investing both in sports and even their governing bodies, raising questions about potential returns, the investment thesis and competition. Arctos is one of world’s largest sports investors, counting amongst its investments, with 20+ portfolio companies, including: Baseball’s Boston Red Sox, Liverpool FC, Paris St. Germain, Atalanta, New York Giants, and recently Aston Martin’s F1 racing team. In this episode, Ian Charles, trained in the world of illiquid private investments and secondaries, discusses the size of the market, the investment logic, competition, regulation, building the brand, using data as well as exits and returns! From North American leagues to European football, he assesses the barriers to entry, the ability for growth capital to raise growth rates, historic returns, minority stakes, and how the fans impacted by these epochal changes. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors and the World Gold Council. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

In an interview we had especially looked forward to, and with the Credit Suisse acquisition behind us, the MMP went to Zurich to talk to Colm Kelleher. Described as one of the most influential and capable banking executives of the last several decades, he has been dubbed by the FT as 'Europe’s most powerful banker'. As Chairman of the UBS board, he helps manage an organisation with approximately $5.7 trillion in assets, employing 112,000 people. After discussing the early forces that shaped him, he explains why he realised US banks were better placed to outgun their UK rivals, why he joined Morgan Stanley, and the journey to CFO and President. He discusses the brutal intensity of fighting to keep Morgan Stanley alive from following Lehman, and the emotional scars it left. Colm describes the attraction of UBS, the preparation that made the Credit Suisse deal work in such an orderly manner as well as the business, the brand, and its position today. He explains what culture means to him, Europe’s position in financial services, disintermediation, and the likely shape of banking going forward and why banks shouldn’t seek to be entrepreneurial. ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors and the World Gold Council. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube

Thought-provoking, amusing, self-critical, rich with anecdotes, laced with good advice, and large servings of humility, you might not automatically assume I’m describing the book, titled 'On Leadership', just published and written by Sir Tony Blair. The discussion starts with the essential need for a leader to identify the priorities, to determine the plan, and to pursue its execution. Sir Tony Blair discusses meeting roadblocks and responses, and why the leader must stay resolute. He then opines on international affairs today; including thoughts on China, India, Russia and the Middle East. He covers higher education, lessons from Singapore’s ‘economic miracle’, and the challenges of immigration. He shares perspectives from the Tony Blair Institute, which today advises over 40 countries, how technology can promote major leaps forward, reasons for optimism, why humility is key and why there’s no substitute for hard work! ​​The Money Maze Podcast is kindly sponsored by Schroders, IFM Investors and the World Gold Council. Sign up to our Newsletter | Follow us on LinkedIn | Watch on YouTube