The Rethink Marketing Podcast

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge are joined by Dennis Devlin and Jeff Jones, authors of Three Wise Monkeys. The guests speak to how understanding customer behavior is crucial for developing effective marketing strategies. This is founded in empathy and actively listening. This relentless pursuit of customer understanding plays out in building a company culture of continual curiosity. Throw in some humility and collaboration, and we have a winning formula for today's business leaders! The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge chat about heightened levels of unpredictability for marketers during a presidential election season. The landscape can be navigated, but it's not easy! Sometimes the best thing we can do as brands is to embrace unpredictability and be unpredictable ourselves! If we start from a defensible position and focus on the right target audience with a unique and surprising message, winning is still possible. Is the answer inbound marketing? During a political season, it may be beneficial for brands to allocate advertising dollars towards SEO, website redevelopment, and creating valuable assets that can be deployed later when attention availability is higher. All that and more on today's Rethink Marketing Podcast episode! The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge explore the question of whether entry-level marketers should start their careers on the brand side or agency side. There are pros and cons to each track, but which has the most upside? Agency opportunities likely mean working with a variety of brands and industries, while brand side workers tend to develop much deeper expertise, influence strategy to a greater degree, and have more control. Networking, mentorship, and understanding key performance indicators are key in both settings. What matters more to you--title and expertise or a portfolio of brands you've impacted? Chapters: 00:00 Introduction and Overview 05:20 The Advantages of Starting on the Brand Side 07:29 The Advantages of Working Agency Side 08:46 Understanding Key Performance Indicators in Marketing 09:21 Where Do You Want Your Career to Go? 11:15 Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge sit down with author, speaker, change agent, and former mayor of Augusta, Deke Copenhaver. The conversation covers motivating and inspiring teams, leading movements, and creating lasting change. Deke shares his perspective on overcoming esophageal cancer and how it has changed his outlook on life and leadership. He shares his own journey of leadership founded in integrity, transparency, and consistency. He also discusses the role of grassroots engagement in building a strong culture and inspiring employees. Deke highlights the importance of meeting the next generation of leaders where they are and providing hope and inspiration. It's a can't miss conversation for anyone who wants to inspire or cause positive change! Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction and Background of Deke Copenhaver 02:08 Overcoming Adversity: How Cancer Changed My Perspective 06:41 Grassroots Engagement and Building a Strong Culture 12:43 Meeting the Next Generation of Leaders Where They Are 23:10 Applying Leadership Principles in Marketing 27:42 Rethinking Leadership and Engaging the Next Generation 33:03 Writing a New Book: Providing Hope and Inspiration 37:47 Conclusion and Final Thoughts The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge discuss the advantages and disadvantages of personalization and segmentation. Artificial intelligence and machine learning are making personalization easier, but is that the best move for your business? Does it make sense to fill the sales funnel through segmentation and improve customer loyalty with personalization? Chapters: 00:00 Introduction: The Role of Personalization 02:59 Pros and Cons of Personalization 05:45 Segmentation vs. Personalization 07:30 Customer Loyalty and Personalization 09:26 The Role of Technology in Personalization 12:33 Influencer Marketing and Personalization 14:01 - Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge explore the concept of catalytic marketing, which focuses on doing less with less to instill lasting change in target audiences. The conversation delves into the three C's of catalytic marketing: clarity of objectives, connections with the team and audience, and courage in constraints. How truly important are non-core investments or projects? What are some major roadblocks to embracing catalytic marketing? Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 03:02 The Three C's of Catalytic Marketing 04:11 - Clarity 07:10 - Connections 10:28 - Courage 14:30 - Implementing Catalytic Marketing 15:20 - Selling Catalytic Marketing to the C-Suite 18:09 - Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge discuss the ongoing challenge of balancing quality and quantity of content. The conversation explores the impact of generative AI on content creation, audience interaction, and the importance of relying on human experts for high-quality content. It also delves into factors such as search engine rankings and user engagement. How do we proactively answer customer questions, move prospects through the buying journey, and provide transparency? Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction: Wrestling with the Quantity vs Quality of Content 01:25 - Generative AI and User-Generated Content 04:00 - Finding the Balance: Quality vs Quantity 05:00 - Answering Customer Questions and Providing Transparency 06:34 - Harnessing User-Generated Content 07:19 - The Importance of User-Generated Content 09:15 - Building Online Communities 10:13 - The Power of Storytelling 11:00 - Visual and Interactive Content 13:36 - Engaging with Customers in Different Ways 14:34 - Using Analytics to Optimize Content 08:34 - Quality vs Quantity of Content 09:33 - Conclusion: The Content Revolution The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge discuss the tension between exclusivity and accessibility. Are we better off growing our customer base or simply seeking higher margins from a small niche? Should exclusive brands care about market share? They explore the concept of exclusivity and how it can be achieved through limited availability, specific pricing strategies, or unique offerings. They also discuss the challenges of transitioning between exclusive and mass market strategies. It starts with organization-wide alignment and permeates market perception. How will our target audience react? Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction 01:16 - Defining Exclusivity 03:01 - Exclusivity vs. Market Share 03:58 - Differentiating Between Exclusive and Mass Market Brands 04:44 - The Role of Service in Exclusivity 06:03 - Considering Revenue Goals and Pricing Strategies 07:42 - Creating Exclusivity through Limited Supply 09:11 - Involving the Entire Organization in the Decision 11:21 - Understanding Audience Preferences 13:24 - Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge opine on finding the right balance between testing and optimization in marketing and advertising. They explore whether there is a point where testing becomes excessive and whether or not perfection is actually attainable. How important is intentionality in testing? How should today's marketers think about the opportunity costs of excessive testing? There is value of continuous improvement and to adapt to emerging trends, but isn't it time to rethink common assumptions and the value of testing? Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction 02:22 - Constantly Testing and Optimizing 04:44 - Striving for Perfection 06:12 - Efficiency vs. Profitability 08:48 - Intentionality in Testing 10:02 - Opportunity Cost and Global Trends 12:16 - Perfection and Continuous Improvement 13:50 - The Juice Worth the Squeeze 15:17 - Testing Beyond Advertising Campaigns 16:14 - Summary and Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge chat about the increasing pressure from platforms like Google and Meta to identify content made using gen-AI. The delineate between content made with AI and that made by AI, and discuss whether or not marketers should be help accountable for transparency when AI is used. No gen-AI was used in the making of this episode! Takeaways: In some contexts, brands and creators should be proactive in disclosing content made with AI to maintain transparency and integrity. Accuracy and trust in AI-generated content are crucial for building consumer confidence. Ethical considerations arise when AI is used to create content that may deceive or mislead consumers. Competition in AI-driven industries requires differentiation and a focus on maintaining a personal touch. Organizations should consider implementing an AI compliance supervisor role to ensure the quality and trustworthiness of AI-generated content. Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction: Identifying and Flagging Content Made with AI 03:32 - Should Marketers Disclose Content Made with AI? 06:32 - Transparency and Integrity in Marketing 09:00 - Accuracy and Trust in AI-Generated Content 10:33 - Ethical Issues and Consumer Expectations 13:10 - Competition and Differentiation in AI-Driven Industries 15:32 - The Role of AI Compliance Supervisor 19:08 - Conclusion: The Proliferation of AI-Generated Content The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge converse about the social multiplier effect in marketing. As marketers get better and share their learnings, it seems that marketing continues to improve. Competition is increasing, forcing marketers to get better--and, thereby, increase the competition! It can be a challenge to keep up with the rapidly evolving marketing landscape, let alone implement those learnings. They discuss strategically upgrading people, processes, and technology to adapt to the changing marketing landscape. Takeaways: The social multiplier effect in marketing means that as everyone gets better, the competition for attention becomes fiercer. Implementation is crucial in marketing. Simply acquiring knowledge is not enough; taking action and getting results is what matters. Continuous learning is essential to stay ahead in the rapidly evolving marketing landscape. Upgrading people, processes, and technology is necessary to keep up with the competition. The rise of AI in marketing requires marketers to stay updated and embrace new technologies to remain competitive. Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction: The Social Multiplier Effect in Marketing 02:29 - The Challenge of Keeping Up 03:25 - The Importance of Implementation 05:09 - Continuous Learning and Improvement 08:30 - The Rise of AI and the Need to Stay Updated 10:49 - Upgrading People, Processes, and Technology 12:38 - The Future of AI in Marketing 14:06 - Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries is joined by Dr. Carolyn Goerner, a negotiation, power, and imposter syndrome expert, as well as a clinical professor of management at the Kelley School of Business. She shares insights on power, vulnerability, empathy, negotiation, and influence. From understanding the underlying motivations and interests to working together against a problem, Dr. Goerner shares tips to help each listener find their negotiation style. When is the last time you created shared blank space to change an adversarial situation to one of collaboration? How do we callout bias without being offensive? This is a can't miss conversation for anyone looking to improve their professional relationships! Takeaways: Empathy is crucial in building influence and establishing power. Understanding the 'why' behind negotiations helps in finding mutually beneficial solutions. Developing empathy requires seeing things from different perspectives and actively listening to others. Vulnerability and trust are essential in negotiations and building strong relationships. Creating shared blank space allows for co-creation of needs without framing bias. Gender stereotypes in negotiation are being rethought, with training and confidence playing a bigger role than gender. Personality traits can influence negotiation styles and outcomes. Calling out biases explicitly can reduce their impact in negotiations. Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction and Background 01:25 - Career Pivots and Learning 05:06 - Empathy and Influence 06:20 - Developing Empathy 07:49 - Training Empathy 15:43 - Power, Influence, and Vulnerability 19:00 - Commitment vs. Compliance 26:02 - Negotiation and Empathy 35:26 - Understanding the 'Why' in Negotiation 42:50 - Creating Shared Blank Space 43:25 - Empathy and Vulnerability 44:22 - Rethinking Gender Stereotypes in Negotiation 45:15 - Personality and Negotiation 46:25 - Busting Bias through Explicitness 47:12 - Recap and How to Connect with Dr. Goerner The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge chat about the winner's and losers from the 2024 lineup of the year's most expensive commercials! The conversation explores the role of on-screen and off-screen talent in Super Bowl commercials, the power of social media shareability, self-deprecating humor in ads, nostalgia, the use of teasers and extended ads, and testing and creativity. Which commercials were your favorites? Takeaways: Marketing and sales are full of myths and misconceptions. Super Bowl commercials feature A-level talent. Social media shareability is a key factor in Super Bowl ads. Humor and self-deprecation can make ads memorable. Nostalgia plays a significant role in memorable commercials. Teasers and extended ads can generate excitement and engagement. Testing and creativity are important in any successful commercial campaign, and the Super Bowl is no exception. Chapters: 00:00 - Myths and Misconceptions in Marketing and Sales 03:05 - The Role of Talent in Super Bowl Commercials 04:51 - The Power of Social Media Shareability 07:27 - Humor and Self-Deprecation in Super Bowl Ads 08:57 - Nostalgia and Memorable Commercials 12:16 - The Effectiveness of Teasers and Extended Ads 15:49 - Testing and Creativity in Super Bowl Ads 16:40 - Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge are joined by co-founder of Helpful Human Franchising and Almost Magical Marketing, Kris Olivo. Kris explains the importance of systems and processes to create successful grand openings and events, including the development of compelling offers and a multi-channel approach. Additionally, Kris explores the role of chatbots in creating a human-centric experience and highlights the common mistakes businesses make with chatbot implementation. Kris also shares his thoughts on rethinking the gathering of testimonials and social proof, leading him to create a software platform called Endorse Me. Takeaways Jiu-jitsu teaches valuable lessons in perseverance, dedication, and learning from failure, which can be applied to business and entrepreneurship. Successful grand openings require a multi-channel approach, including advertising, social media, and word-of-mouth marketing. Developing compelling offers and creating a human-centric experience are crucial for attracting customers and generating positive reviews. Chatbots should focus on providing quick and accurate information, while also offering a personalized and engaging experience for users. Chat bots have improved and can now provide information without the frustration of prompts and FAQs. Training chat bots is crucial to ensure they can handle various questions and respond in a way that simulates natural human conversation. Rethinking the gathering of testimonials and social proof can lead to more organized and effective ways of showcasing credibility. Being relentless and embracing failure is essential for personal and professional growth. Chapters: 00:00 - Welcome and Guest Introduction 01:31 - Jiu Jitsu and Business 04:53 - Applying Systems and Processes 08:45 - Understanding the Viral Coefficient 12:16 - Writing a Book and Success Stories 15:07 - Common Mistakes in Grand Openings and Event Marketing 18:34 - Developing Compelling Offers for Grand Openings 21:33 - Industries with Successful Grand Openings and Pitfalls to Avoid 25:06 - Multi-Channel Approach to Grand Openings 30:13 - Creating a Human-Centric Experience with Chatbots 41:26 - Improvements in Chat Bots 42:22 - Training Chat Bots 44:30 - Simulating Natural Human Conversation 45:27 - Rethinking Testimonials and Social Proof 47:25 - Final Thoughts: Be Relentless Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge discuss the importance of optimizing word of mouth as a channel without becoming over-reliant on it. Having customers help you grow your business has tremendous benefits--and some dangerous drawbacks! They emphasize the need to diversify marketing efforts and de-risk the business from too much word of mouth. The conversation also covers the significance of having a well-defined referral program and incentivizing customers to make referrals. Takeaways: Word of mouth marketing can be a powerful way to grow a business, but it is important to avoid over-reliance on it. Diversifying marketing efforts and exploring other channels can help de-risk the business from relying solely on word of mouth. Having a well-defined referral program and incentivizing customers to make referrals can help drive word of mouth marketing. Asking for referrals and staying top of mind with customers is crucial for generating consistent referrals. Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction and Welcome 00:16 - The Benefits and Drawbacks of Word of Mouth Marketing 01:11 - Rethinking the Importance of Word of Mouth 02:09 - Optimizing Word of Mouth without Over-Reliance 03:44 - Referrals as a Source of Opportunities 04:59 - The Importance of Having a Word of Mouth Strategy 05:53 - Diversifying Channels and Offloading Risk 06:43 - Asking for Referrals and Being Top of Mind 08:39 - Handling Referrals and White Glove Service 11:29 - The Risk of Over-Reliance on Referrals 12:19 - Building a Referral Program and Backstopping Against Loss 14:28 - De-Risking Reliance on Word of Mouth 16:22 - Diversifying and Increasing the Frequency of Referrals 17:01 - Conclusion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary On the last episode of season four of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge unpack the relatively recent trend of eliminating the Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) position. Many notable brands, including Walgreens, Etsy, Johnson & Johnson, UPS, and more have taken this step. This podcast episode explores whether removing the marketing executive is a long-term solution to underlying problems. Should we follow suit? Is there all that much risk in trying it? After all, McDonald's eliminated their Global CMO role and brought it back within 12 months, so what do we have to lose? Takeaways The elimination of the CMO role is not a one-size-fits-all solution and depends on individual organizational context. Financial struggles often lead to the cutting of marketing expenses, including the CMO role. The CMO plays a crucial role as the voice of the customer and in driving revenue growth. Expanding the skill set of the CMO and aligning marketing responsibilities with other C-suite positions can enhance the value of the role. Alternative approaches, such as agency partnerships, can provide cost savings while maintaining marketing expertise. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction: The Trend of Eliminating the CMO Role 02:08 - The Financial Struggles of Companies and the Impact on Marketing 03:24 - The Role of the CMO and the Voice of the Customer 05:27 - The Value of Marketing in Different Business Life Cycles 07:28 - The Reporting Structure and Alignment of Marketing Responsibilities 09:44 - Factors Influencing the Elimination of the CMO Role 10:25 - Expanding the Skill Set of the CMO Role 11:40 - The Impact of Other C-Suite Positions on the CMO Role 14:22 - Case Study: McDonald's and the Elimination and Reinstatement of the Global CMO Role 16:56 - Considerations for Eliminating the CMO Role in SMBs 18:03 - The Importance of Individual Organizational Context 19:08 - Alternative Approaches: Agency Partnerships and Cost Savings 20:21 - Conclusion: The Continuing Relevance of the CMO Role The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the last episode of season four of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge pull out the crystal ball and speak to 2024 predictions! Will gen-AI really change the game within the next 12 months? How should brands differentiate if they aren't using AI? Is not using AI a cop out for marketing leaders who are intimidated by an ever-evolving landscape of new tech? How should we be thinking about shifts in customer behavior? It seems like everything is changing for marketers right now, so what should we believe and what advice should we be rethinking? Chapters: - Introduction: Will everything we know change in 2024? - Gartner's 2024 marketing predictions - Prediction 1: AI will increase creative talent spend - Prediction 2: CMOs will guard against deception unleashed by generative AI - Prediction 3: 50% of consumers will significantly limit social media usage - Prediction 4: Acoustic brands will differentiate by being AI free - Prediction 5: AI will reduce brand visibility in SERPs - Conclusion The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the last episode of season four of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge wax eloquent about advice to follow the leaders by creating end-to-end ecosystems for their customers. This mentality improves customer loyalty, expands share of wallet, boosts margins, and has countless other benefits. But if it's all that and a bag of chips, why isn't every organization following suit? What are some of the pitfalls or red flags that today's marketing and sales leaders should be cognizant of when pursuing a product roadmap that moves toward developing an ecosystem? All that and more on today's episode! The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This wraps up Season 4 of the Rethink Marketing Podcast! We are thrilled to kick off Season 5 on January 9, 2024! Until then, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and keep on rethinking those common assumptions! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of the Rethink Marketing Podcast, Colin Jeffries and Paul Frodge discuss the needs and wants behind marketing and sales software upgrades. If we switch project management tools, do we need a new Digital Asset Manager? How does a new CRM impact our email tool? When we upgrade one system, do we really need to upgrade another? What are the opportunity costs for staying put? The Rethink Marketing Podcast is available on all major podcast platforms! Subscribe to our Youtube channel or visit our website at rethinkmarketingpodcast.com where you can learn more about the show or just peruse our guest list and episode library. We are a proud partner show of the Marketing Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices