Normal Gossip

Sam Sanders returns for some gossip about a case of "accidental" love-bombing in a hostel. Follow Sam on Instagram here and check out The Sam Sanders Show for more hot takes on entertainment and culture. We recommend you start here. Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here! Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Nadira Goffe comes with us to a shared rental house simmering with tension over roaches, cats, and a very special stew. Follow Nadira on Instagram here. Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here! Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Rebecca Jennings accompanies us to LARP Camp for a tale of dice, ghosts, and forbidden love. Pre-order Rebecca's book Be The Bombshell: What Love Island Teaches Us About Dating here and follow her on Instagram here. Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here! Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Alanna Bennett joins us to explore what happens to you—physically and metaphysically—when you get into a fight with a magician. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here! Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Jonquilyn Hill hates pranks, which made her the perfect guest for today's tale of a townhouse torn apart by a prank gone wrong. Follow Jonquilyn on Instagram here and check out Jonquilyn's podcast Explain It to Me here. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here! Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Yowei Shaw joins us on [BLEEP] Island for a tale of volunteer firefighters, fancy snacks, and rampant nepotism. Follow Yowei on Instagram here and check out Yowei's podcast Proxy here. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here! Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Welcome to season EIGHT of Normal Gossip! We're kicking off the season with Scaachi Koul and a story about the lengths you would go for a coveted couch. Order Scaachi’s book, Sucker Punch, here and follow her on Instagram here. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Order Kelsey's book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me, here! Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Popping into your feeds with a little treat! In today’s bonus episode, Kelsey joins Rachelle to answer all of our burning questions about her new book, You Didn’t Hear This From Me: Mostly True Notes on Gossip, reality TV, victorian marriages, and, you guessed it, gossip! Order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Surprise! In today’s bonus episode, Se’era Spragley Ricks (Normal Gossip’s lead producer) joins Rachelle to dive into your questions, New Year’s resolutions, and morsels of gossip. Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

In today's bonus episode, Rachelle and Kelsey discuss the cinematic experience that is 2015's The Spirit of Christmas. Warning: we could not stop talking about sex and drugs in this episode, maybe because the movie is so chaste. Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se’era, Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Se’era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Thank you so much to some eagle-eyed listeners who alerted us to the fact that we mistakenly published an earlier version of this episode, which contains an error mixing up the Arctic and the Antarctic, which are–famously—polar opposites. If you’re reading this, then you’ll hear the correct version, thank goodness. And as promised in the Instagram post, this version also has Kelsey crying in it. ❤️ It’s a beautiful day for some big changes and gossip on the high seas! We have been keeping a secret from you for a while, and it’s time to finally share! Follow Rachelle on Instagram @heyydnae Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Se’era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Gossip skeptic Hrishikesh Hirway joins us for a deep dive into the history of a (close) family full of secrets, lies, and prophecies. Follow Hrishi on Instagram @hrishihirway Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Sean Conard. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Caroline O'Donoghue joins us from across the pond for a story about art collectors with too much time and money on their hands. Follow Caroline on Instagram @czaronline Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Carey T. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Tis the damn season for hometown crushes! Carson Olshansky joins us for a story about running into your high school crush while holiday shopping. Follow Carson on Instagram @carsonolshansky Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Madeline Carey. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Tobin Low is back for a story about a mysterious lobsterman and his cousin and how he brought a community together during season one of lockdown. Follow Tobin on Instagram @tobinlow! Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! Please make your gift today and help us reach our goal of 2,024 donors so we can keep on making interesting and beautiful things for you. THANK YOU! https://on.prx.org/3QEIIJk You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Tiffany. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Josh Gondelman is BACK for a story about gross boys who love each other very much. Follow Josh on Instagram at @joshgondelman! Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Sara Fagan. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Our old friend Samantha Irby is back for a story about what could go wrong when you bring a wild animal into your home. Follow Sam on Instagram at @bitchesgottaeat! Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Miranda Kramer. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Our own Alex Sujong Laughlin joins us for a tale of petty thievery plaguing the Dept. of Sanitation during the most wonderful time of the year: Garbage Man Appreciation Week. Follow Alex on Instagram at @alexlaughs! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Jessica An. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

When you cheat at bingo, the house always wins. Danielle Henderson joins us again for a story about how far parents will go to raise money for their kids' soccer team—and to gamble. Follow Danielle on Instagram and subscribe to her newsletter! Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Loren Sanchez. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Welcome to season SEVEN of Normal Gossip! We're starting off the season strong with Ashley Reese and a story about a smutty fanfiction community. Check out Ashley on Twitter and Instagram and check out her Substack here. Episode transcript here. Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Ginger Hollander. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.