Relationscapes

He was told he was broken. He was promised a cure. It was all a lie. Lucas Wilson, author of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors' Stories of Conversion Therapy, takes us inside the real experiences of queer people forced to try and change their so-called "same-sex attraction." Lucas shares both his own story and those of survivors, revealing the psychological, moral, and spiritual harms of conversion therapy. He also explains why stories, not just statistics, are the most powerful way to confront the discredited practice. As the U.S. Supreme Court gears up to overturn conversion therapy bans, these stories matter now more than ever. See the complete transcript at relationscapes.org. Show Notes Boy ErasedChris Walker, "Supreme Court Appears Poised to Strike Down State Bans on Conversion Therapy," truthout.org. Practices of so-called 'conversion therapy About the Author Dr. Lucas Wilson is a SSHRC Postdoctoral Fellow at University of Toronto Mississauga. As a former evangelical and a survivor of conversion therapy, he is the editor of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy (JKP Books, 2025). He is also the author of At Home with the Holocaust: Postmemory, Domestic Space, and Second-Generation Holocaust Narratives (Rutgers University Press, 2025), which received the Jordan Schnitzer First Book Publication Award. He is also the co-editor of Emerging Trends in Third-Generation Holocaust Literature (Lexington Books, 2023), a collection of academic essays about the writings of grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, which has been named an “essential” title by Choice Reviews. His public-facing writing has appeared in The Advocate, Queerty, LGBTQ Nation, and Religion Dispatches, among other venues, and his academic work has appeared in Modern Language Studies, Canadian Jewish Studies, Flannery O’Connor Review, Journal of Jewish Identities, and Studies in American Jewish Literature and in edited collections published by The MLA, SUNY Press, The University of Alabama Press, and DIO Press. He is currently working on two interrelated monograph projects that examine evangelical homophobia and transphobia in the U.S.

Here's a frightening statistic: More young women age 18 to 29 voted for Donald Trump in 2024 than in 2016 or 2020. Why? Jess Britvich argues that TikTok and Instagram have been moving some young women rightward, without making it obvious. Trends like clean beauty, natural living, tradwife aesthetics, or even yoga and wellness communities might look harmless on the surface—but many of them are pipelines to right-wing politics. The former social worker and content creator Jess Britvich explains how social media pipelines—from “SkinnyTok” to "clean" beauty products—pull people into conspiracy thinking and reactionary movements, and how we can stem the tide by becoming more media literate. Full transcript available here at relationscapes.org. About the Guest Jess Britvich is a content creator in Pittsburgh. Formerly a social worker, she turned her attention to online education in the wake of the global pandemic and the rise of MAGA influencers. Her Substack is substack.com/@jessbritvich. Follow her on TikTok and Instagram @jessbritvich.

Who would choose to bring children into today’s world? Between climate change, economic strain, political conflict, and growing uncertainty about the future, more people today say they feel uncertain about parenthood, especially progressive people. Philosophers Anastasia Berg and Rachel Wiseman—authors of What Are Children For?—explore the personal, political, and philosophical stakes of having kids. From the tedium and vulnerability of early parenting to the profound meaning and joy it can bring, this conversation opens space for anyone wrestling with one of life’s biggest decisions. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Guests Anastasia Berg is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at University of California, Irvine. She serves as editor of ​The Point magazine, a Chicago-based literary magazine that publishes philosophical writing on everyday life and culture. Rachel Wiseman is managing editor of The Point. Together they wrote What Are Children For?: On Ambivalence and Choice.

Fatphobia is everywhere. It affects how we judge ourselves and each other. In this episode, philosopher Kate Manne exposes the social, ethical, and health-based consequences of anti-fat bias. Drawing on personal experience and sharp cultural analysis, Manne challenges dieting myths, weight-loss fads, and societal pressure to be thin. She invites us to practice “body reflexivity,” the radical idea that our bodies exist for ourselves, not merely for others. She explains why physical movement, health, and self-care matter more than size, and why dismantling fatphobia is a social justice issue. This episode turns the tables on fatphobia in a world obsessed with thinness, offering a liberating perspective about bodies and wellness. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Guest Kate Manne is author of Down Girl, Entitled, and Unshrinking. She's an associate professor of philosophy at Cornell University where she’s been teaching since 2013. Before that, she was a junior fellow at the Harvard Society of Fellows. Manne did her graduate work in philosophy at MIT. Her Substack is called More to Hate.

Like a lot of American women, Aubrey Hirsch grew up trying to channel her own rage into other emotions. Maybe she wasn't mad, she was really jealous. Maybe she wasn't pissed off, she was actually sad. Eventually, Aubrey realized she had been suppressing something vital. Sometimes being angry is the main thing she should be. Instead of always running from her outrage, now she channels it into informative, funny, sometimes furious feminist comics. Aubrey joins us to talk about how she uses illustration to call out sexism, why rage can be a powerful force for collective change, and how we can channel it individually right now to change some things for the better. Her new book is called Graphic Rage: Comics on Gender, Justice, and Life As a Woman in America. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Guest Aubrey Hirsch is author of Graphic Rage: Comics on Gender, Justice, and Life As a Woman in America. She is a writer and illustrator living in New York. Her stories, essays, and comics have appeared in The New York Times, Vox, TIME Magazine, American Short Fiction, Black Warrior Review, The Rumpus, The Nib and elsewhere. She is author of a short story collection, Why We Never Talk About Sugar, and a flash fiction chapbook, This Will Be His Legacy. She has taught writing at Oberlin College, The University of Pittsburgh, Colorado College, Georgia College and State University, and Chatham University. She is recipient of a 2022 National Endowment for the Arts fellowship in Literature, an individual artist award from the Sustainable Arts Foundation, the Daehler Fellowship in Creative Writing from The Colorado College, and The Meek Award for Graphic Nonfiction from The Florida Review. Subscribe to her (free!) Substack and follow her on Instagram @aubreyhirsch.

Are men “naturally” violent? Are they hardwired to provide and protect? Does their DNA demand they stray? These questions persist in debates about masculinity, but they’re often answered with lazy biology. In this episode, anthropologist Matthew Gutmann dismantles biologically grounded gender essentialist myths. Drawing on decades of research—from fatherhood in Mexico to gender shifts in China—Gutmann shows how culture, history, and politics shape what we call “masculinity.” We talk about the dangers of blaming “male nature,” how fatherhood gets redefined across cultures, and why understanding men as human beings first opens the door to more freedom and accountability. His book is called Are Men Animals? How Modern Masculinity Sells Men Short. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Guest Matthew Gutmann is Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at Brown University. His research and teaching has focused on studies of men and masculinities; public health; politics; and the military. His latest book is Are Men Animals? How Modern Masculinity Sells Men Short.

What does it mean to parent in a world that wasn’t built for you? Writer and disabled parent Eliza Hull joins us to talk about her groundbreaking anthology We’ve Got This: Essays by Disabled Parents. These essays challenge ableist assumptions, confront stigma, and spotlight the resilience and pride of disabled parents. Their stories aren't about about pity or inspirational “overcoming”—they are about identity, ingenuity, and reimagining parenthood through unapologetically disabled experiences. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Guest Eliza Hull is an award-winning musical artist, writer, journalist, and disability advocate based in Victoria, Australia. Her edited collection is called We've Got This: Essays by Disabled Parents.

Happy 50th Episode! To celebrate, I invited Lauren Passell, a podcast hero of mine, to revisit a Relationscapes episode she recommended on her excellent Podcast The Newsletter. As a newly adoptive white mom of a child who is Black, Lauren was thrilled about Angela Tucker's interview. Tucker is an incredible advocate for transracial adoptees. Lauren opens up about the joys and challenges of raising a child in an open adoption, exploring questions about race, family, and community. Full transcript available here at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUEST Lauren Passell (she/her) is the founder and CEO of Tink Media, Podcast the Newsletter, Podcast Marketing Magic, and is the producer of Feed the Queue. She writes about podcasts for Lifehacker. She has spoken about podcast marketing for SXSW, Podcast Movement, Podfest, London Podcast Festival, The Podcast Show, and has taught classes for Harvard, Columbia, and more. She is a judge for The Webbys, Signal Awards, The Ambies, and the International Women's Podcast Awards. She lives in West Philly with her cat, husband, and daughter, and loves Disney.

For decades, public schools have been a cornerstone of American learning and civic life. But far-right groups have worked for years to turn these institutions into battlegrounds, pushing to control curricula, ban books, and restrict the rights of marginalized students, while whitewashing history and steamrolling over accessibility. The battle is reaching fever pitch today. In her book School Moms, education journalist Laura Pappano takes us inside the world of parent activism, revealing how partisan actors mobilize to dismantle public education, enforce narrow ideological agendas, and silence dissent. This episode exposes the high-stakes struggle over the future of schools and what it means for students, educators, and communities across the country. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Guest Laura Pappano is an award-winning education journalist, author, and founder of The New Haven Student Journalism Project. Her latest book is called School Moms: Parent Activism, Partisan Politics and the Battle for Public Education. She is a former education columnist for The Boston Globe, and has published work in places like The New York Times Magazine, Vanity Fair, Salon, The Washington Post, USA Today, Slate, The Atlantic, and The Christian Science Monitor.

When Anne Pinkerton's brother unexpectedly died alone in an extreme sport accident, she faced the same question over and over. People would always ask, "Were You Close?" They asked out of concern, but the question felt almost impossible to answer. In some ways, Anne and her brother David weren't close—they lived in different states, he was more than a decade older. But that distance seemed beside the point when she considered all the ways they were close. And after his death, she set out to find new ways to be closer. In this episode, Anne Pinkerton joins us to talk about how grief over the loss of a sibling is one of the most overlooked griefs people can experience. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Guest Anne Pinkerton is an essayist, memoirist, and poet. Her work often circles around grief and loss, as well as coping with these painful realities in our lives. Her memoir is called Were You Close? a sister’s quest to know the brother she lost. Visit her at annepinkertonwriter.com.

What if the image the world loves you for is the one that’s destroying you? In her memoir Fetishized, Kaila Yu deconstructs "yellow fever," exploring how pop culture and Western beauty ideals shaped damaging stereotypes about Asian women—and how she once embodied them herself. After spending years in the pinup and import modeling world, auditioning for film roles steeped in dehumanizing tropes, touring globally with her all Asian American girl band, and altering her body to match impossible standards, the emotional costs became too much. So he began a new journey to reclaim her identity, beauty, and self-worth. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org. About the Author Kaila Yu is author of Fetishized: A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty. She is a freelance writer for the Los Angeles Times, Rolling Stone, the New York Times, Business Insider, Conde Nast Traveler and more. Formerly, she was a model and the lead singer for the all–Asian American female rock band Nylon Pink. Fetishized is her first book. You can find Kaila online @kailayu.

In this candid and funny conversation, artist and author Mary Catherine Starr talks about her viral comics on motherhood, marriage, mental load, and more. From the story of the infamous peanut butter jar to the deeper patterns of household inequality, Starr explores how social expectations, internalized roles, and everyday choices shape parenting partnerships. Through humor and heartfelt honesty, she reveals why moms need to "eat the damn peach"—and why it's never just about the peach. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUEST Mary Catherine Starr is an artist and graphic designer. Her popular Instagram account @momlife_comics explores motherhood, marriage, and the double standards of parenting through funny, relatable, and sometimes maddening comics. She lives on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, with her husband, their two children, and her son’s large collection of plastic dinosaurs.

Most people who experience the death of a parent come to understand that grief isn’t something you get over—it's something you try to learn how to live with. That's what author Maddie Norris discovered after losing her dad at seventeen. Instead of looking away from the pain, she studied it—through the lens of her father's own work as a medical researcher on the science of wounds. Maddie joins us to talk about her debut book The Wet Wound: An Elegy In Essays, weaving together the history of wound care and the rituals of mourning. Maddie challenges the idea that healing means letting go. She asks: what if grief is more like tending an open wound—something tender, and ongoing, and sometimes even joyful? Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUEST MADDIE NORRIS is author of The Wet Wound: An Elegy in Essays. She is a visiting assistant professor at the Davidson College in North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Her award-winning work has been named as notable in Best American Essays.

About 11 million kids serve as their family's interpreter in the US today. In this episode, Olivia Abtahi joins Relationscapes to talk about her beautiful new picture book celebrating these kids: The Interpreter, inspired by the lives of real kids navigating bureaucracies, burnout, and belonging. We talk about how adults can better support children in this role and what it means to write a book that resonates in two languages at once. Olivia also shares how the chaos of a politically charged moment of xenophobia impacted her creative process. Whether you’re a parent, teacher, former child interpreter, or someone trying to better understand cross-cultural relationships, this conversation will stay with you. ABOUT THE GUEST Growing up in the DC area, Olivia Abtahi devoured books and hid in empty classrooms during school to finish them. Her debut novel, Perfectly Parvin, was published in 2021, receiving the SCBWI Golden Kite Honor, YALSA Odyssey Honor, and numerous starred reviews. Her sophomore novel, Azar on Fire, was published in August 2022 and is a SLJ pick. Olivia's third novel, Twin Flames, is a New Visions Award winner and published in August 2024. The Interpreter is her first picture book, receiving four starred reviews. She currently lives in Denver, Colorado, with her husband and daughters.

Some family stories are proudly passed down. Others are buried under layers of silence, fear, and cultural taboo. After immigrating to the United States, author Ingrid Rojas Contreras kept quiet about her Colombian family’s history of curanderismo—a lineage of mystical healers, visions, and spiritual powers. But after a traumatic head injury triggered amnesia, those buried stories vanished entirely. Then, as her memories gradually resurfaced, Ingrid returned to Colombia with her mother to exhume her grandfather’s remains—a legendary curandero said to possess the power to move clouds. But what she unearthed on that journey wasn’t mere bones. She discovered a deeper connection to identity, ancestry, and a tradition of healing that refuses to be erased. In this episode, Ingrid joins host Blair Hodges to talk about The Man Who Could Move Clouds, her award-winning memoir. Together they explore intergenerational memory, cultural understandings of truth, family divisions around faith, and what it means to carry both trauma and magic in the body. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUEST INGRID ROJAS CONTRERAS is author of the Pulitzer-finalist memoir, The Man Who Could Move Clouds. Her first novel Fruit of the Drunken Tree was the silver medal winner in First Fiction from the California Book Awards, and a New York Times editor’s choice. Her essays and short stories have appeared in the New York Times Magazine, The Believer, and Zyzzyva, among other places. She was born and raised in Bogotá, Colombia and now lives in California.

M asculinity is having yet another moment—from TikTok alphas and tech bros up through the rise of the manosphere. It's because when society feels unstable, many people try to get back to basics. The problem is, those “basics” are a bunch of rigid, outdated masculinity norms—norms that helped create the very problems we're facing right now. In this episode, we dig into the research with psychologists Ronald Levant and Shana Pryor to understand how culture shapes masculinity, why it’s linked to violence and poor health, and what it might take to build something better. Their book is called The Tough Standard: The Hard Truths About Masculinity and Violence. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUESTS RONALD LEVANT is professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Akron. He is past president of the American Psychological Association and is one of the pioneer scholars on masculinity, having conducted masculinity studies for decades. SHAYNA PRYOR is a doctoral student of psychology at the University of Akron. She studies masculinity, gender, and men’s experiences of sexual trauma and interpersonal violence. Together they are authors of the book The Tough Standard: The Hard Truths About Masculinity and Violence.

What if the place that made you feel most alive became the site of your deepest grief? Brandon Wolf grew up multiracial and queer in a small Oregon city, where fitting in felt impossible. Years later, he survived the Pulse nightclub shooting—an event that shattered his world and ignited a lifelong pursuit of justice. In this powerful episode, Brandon opens up about internalized racism, survivor’s guilt, and more hard truths from his memoir A Place For Us. Through pain and resilience, Brandon reminds us why creating spaces of belonging is not just vital—but revolutionary. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUEST Brandon Wolf is a nationally-recognized civil rights and gun safety advocate, and a seasoned communications expert. He currently serves as National Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation’s largest LGBTQ+ civil rights organization. He is a frequent guest on MSNBC, CNN, and in print publications (CNN.com, USA Today, Newsweek, Teen Vogue, Washington Post, The Advocate, Out Magazine) weaving personal stories into calls to action. He was recognized by HuffPost as one of “30 modern-day LGBTQ pioneers” and was on Out Magazine’s list of the 100 most influential LGBTQ+ people in the world. His memoir is called A Place For Us.

KB Brookins was struggling to know who they really were. And even though their quest for authenticity felt isolating, it couldn't happen in complete isolation. It took seeing someone else living more freely for KB to imagine new and better possibilities. That’s the paradox at the heart of becoming ourselves: We can’t do it alone. KB is a Black, queer, trans writer and visual artist from Texas. Their award-winning memoir is called Pretty. It traces how race, gender, queerness, and masculinity are deeply entangled, not just in theory, but in the body and in everyday life with other people. In this episode, KB invites us to break through our rigid ideas about gender roles, and to feel the liberating power of seeing—and being seen. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUEST KB Brookins is a Black, queer, and trans writer, educator, and cultural worker from Texas. Their debut memoir Pretty (2024) won the Great Lakes Colleges Association New Writers Award in Creative Nonfiction and the Dorothy Allison/Felice Picano Emerging Writer Award. Their writing has also appeared in HuffPost, Teen Vogue, Oxford American, Academy of American Poets, Poetry Society of America, and elsewhere. KB’s poetry chapbook How To Identify Yourself with a Wound (2022) won the Saguaro Poetry Prize, a Writer’s League of Texas Discovery Prize, and a Stonewall Honor Book Award. Their poetry collection Freedom House (2023), described as “urgent and timely” by Vogue, won the American Library Association Barbara Gittings Literature Award and the Texas Institute of Letters Award for the Best First Book of Poetry. They adapted Freedom House into a solo art exhibit, displayed at various museums.

One of the most consequential moments in American civil rights history has been almost entirely forgotten. It was 1978. Conservative politicians wanted to ban gays and lesbians from working in California public schools. The outcome of that statewide initiative would have huge repercussions for the rest of the country, and young gay activists knew it. The battle was on. And although it's been almost fifty years, their victory has surprising and urgent relevance for LGBTQ+ communities today. Journalist Christina Cauterucci tells the incredible story as host of season 9 of Slate's podcast, Slow Burn: Gays Against Briggs. Complete transcript available here at relationscapes.org. SHOW NOTES Slow Burn, season 9: "Gays Against Briggs." ABOUT THE GUEST Christina Cauterucci is a Slate senior writer and a host of Outward, Slate's podcast on queer life.

The top reason most news coverage about trans people is misleading and harmful is because journalists don't include the perspectives of actual trans people. Journalist Nico Lang was frustrated by how often reports talked about trans people without trans people. This is especially true for younger folks. Nico wants people to hear directly from trans teenagers. So for their groundbreaking new book, they spent a year traveling the country documenting the lives of trans, nonbinary, and gender fluid teens and their families. The book is called American Teenager: How Trans Kids Are Surviving and Finding Joy in a Turbulent Era. And it puts perspectives of gender diverse teens front and center, where Nico says they always belonged. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org. ABOUT THE GUEST Nico Lang is a nonbinary award-winning journalist with over a decade of experience covering the transgender community’s fight for equality. Their work has appeared in major publications, including Rolling Stone, Esquire, the New York Times, Vox, the Wall Street Journal, Salon, Harper’s Bazaar, Time, The Washington Post, and the L.A. Times. Lang is the creator of Queer News Daily and previously served as the deputy editor for Out magazine, the news editor for Them, the LGBTQ+ correspondent for VICE, and the editor and cofounder of the literary journal In Our Words. Their industry-leading contributions to queer media have resulted in a GLAAD Media Award and 10 awards from the National Association of LGBTQ Journalists (NLGJA). Lang is also the first-ever recipient of the Visibility Award from the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund (TLDEF), an honor created to recognize their impactful contributions to reporting on the lives of LGBTQ+ people.