The Ugly Podcast

My guest this week is Toni Nagy, stand-up comedian, content creator and interpretative dancer extraordinaire. Toni shares her unexpected path to accepting the “ugly” in her life and how this led her to embrace her own style of dancing, the importance of finding that deeper motivation to be creative, and embracing cringey feelings as fertile ground for transformation. We also chat about one of my favorite topics–art as a tool for liberation! Specifically, strengthening our imaginations and deepening the connection we have with ourselves, the earth, and each other. This episode marks the first installment of a new segment, listener questions! Today’s question focuses on how to show up when making anything feels overwhelming. If you have a question you'd like to hear on the podcast, email me at lauren@scribeandsunshine.com. For more laughs and existential dance-musings, follow Toni on Instagram @toninagy and check out her link tree for shows, her Patreon, and more goodies! References: The book I forgot the name of: Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler

Today’s guest, April Fitzpatrick (she/her), aka “The Pineapple Lady,” is an art therapist whose work centers art as a process that allows people, particularly those who’ve experienced racial trauma, to reclaim agency over their personal narratives. April and I talk about the impressive symbolism of the pineapple for both the therapy process and the human development process, and a broad overview of what happens from a neuroscience perspective when we engage in creative acts. We also discuss the benefits of prioritizing the healing and creative processes rather than chasing after unrealistic performance culture standards. In the midst of so much global grief and ongoing trauma, one thing I know for sure is the importance of having an inclusive mental health framework to help us all work toward healing. You can learn more about April's work at pineappleswithpurpose.com or on Instagram at @pineappleswithpurpose. You can see some of her work featured in Tallahassee Democrat, Tallahassee International Airport, Canvas Rebel, Artful Infrastructure, Black Superwoman Chronicles, ArtPlace America, Black Minds Mag, Art Seen: The Curator’s Salon Magazine, and ART4EQUALITY x LIFE, LIBERTY, PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS Exhibition Catalog.

In this episode, I talk with fellow editor and book coach, Sabrina Estudillo Butler, about standing in our values and saying the quiet part loud. We discuss how it feels in our bodies when we step out of our comfort zones and speak up about injustice and the inner criticism that inevitably pops up when we are new or feel like an imposter. We touch on the issues in publishing as a white, cis, straight, able-body-centered industry, and why it’s so important to speak about these topics to effectuate change. Whenever we dare to say something important and lean into our values, I firmly believe we make the world a little better. And it’s scary to do that! Which is why I wanted to have this conversation with Sabrina to talk about doing the scary thing anyway and how it feels in the moment, amid the transformation. You can learn more about Sabrina’s work on her website unpolishedwords.com and follow her on social media for more: @unpolishedwords on Instagram and Sabrina Estudillo Butler on LinkedIn. References: Juno Creative PEN America Report: Reading Between the Lines Open Letter Criticising PEN America’s Stance on Israel-Gaza War Reaches 500 Signatures

Today’s episode is all about the importance of queering up the creativity process and I am lucky enough to be joined by M Eifler (they/them), a San Francisco-based artist who uses art and technology to explore disability as a hotbed of innovation. M and I talk about the way their disability has helped them evolve their creative approaches, including their #ArtSchoolFromBed series, the importance of starting where their body is rather than a level of skill, and how their disability actually means they do not have the energy for perfectionism. M also shared how they use a scientific-method-type approach to creativity as a way to invite and welcome the messy and ugly (!) results. You can find M’s work on their website blinkpopshift.com and you can support them on their Patreon and possibly host of their incredible pieces by becoming a patron. References: Art 21 Activist affordances Ugly Laws

In this episode, I chat with Switzerland-based writer and fellow healing perfectionist Jo Bahdo about their recent season of writing project, defining what perfection even is, taking steps to heal distrust in ourselves after we haven’t shown up consistently for our craft, and the value in having a “no such thing as mistakes” mindset when it comes to practicing our art. Jo Bahdo (they/them) is a writer, an avid reader, and a regular cinemagoer and is currently co-directing the Swiss Youth Film Festival in Zurich. They have published two poetry collections and also have two newsletters, one about their current projects and one for writers and creators, all of which you can check out on their website! You can also find Jo on Instagram. References: Art Attack 1000 Words of Summer

The Ugly Podcast is back from hiatus, and I couldn’t think of a better person for this episode than Emerson Lee, my creative partner and former co-host. Emerson and I both share big life events we’re currently grieving, how making art and having an expansive mindset is helping us process our grief, how weird time is, and the joy in allowing ourselves to explore what we want in this moment, no matter how messy or nonsensical it seems. We also touch on the book Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman which reminds us how insanely short our time here on earth is. My conversation with Emerson was an important reminder to prioritize figuring out what brings you joy. If you haven’t already, go follow Emerson on Instagram @letsmakemoment for education around disability justice, dementia, and living fully. References: Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman Welcome to Night Vale Hi Jinkx! with Jinkx Monsoon Untamed by Glennon Doyle “We Can Do Hard Things” by Trish Melton

In this episode, I’m rejoined by my fellow editor and twin perfectionist, Erika Steeves! We’re back to talk about perfectionism but through the lens of Katherine Morgan Schafler’s book, The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control, the book that asks the question: What if your perfectionism is actually a superpower? We were both deeply impacted by this book as it aligns so well with the path we’d already begun with our perfectionism and then adding another layer of shame-shedding by transforming what had been perceived as a weakness into a superpower. How cool is that? Be sure to check out our first episode on perfectionism, Tolerating Imperfection. And follow Erika on Instagram @erika.steeves.edits. This episode launches me into a hiatus with the podcast so I can rest and focus on my own healing for the time being. The Ugly Podcast will return in either the fall or the winter depending on how said healing goes. 🤷🏻 In the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram @scribeandsunshine. Keep making ugly things and lean into that perfectionism in new ways. I can’t wait to see what we all do next! References: The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power by Katherine Morgan Schafler Get Your Perfectionist Profile

Get ready for ugly-ception!!! In this episode, I’m joined by publisher, editor, author, and maker, Kim Werker, to discuss our parallel discoveries: that ugly art makes everything better! Kim made her discovery seventeen years ago at a fateful crafting party where, in a bout of intense imposter syndrome, she was inspired to make a hideous doll…on purpose. Ever since then, she’s fallen in love with making ugly things and wants everyone else to join in on the euphoria. Sound familiar?? We talk about our shared love of ugly art, our original creative wounds, the immense consequences of having the courage to saying yes to new and scary things, and the ripple effect it has on the people in your life. To keep in touch with Kim, you can follow her on Instagram @kpwerker, or head to her websites ninetenpublications.ca or digitsandthreads.ca. You can also buy her book, Make It Mighty Ugly, to learn more about her story and how you can integrate more ugly into your life! References: Austin Kleon

On today’s episode, I’m joined by Merle Saferstein, writer, journaler, and legacy work educator. Together we talk about the joys of journaling, how it’s useful to get to know ourselves, process our messy feelings, and consider new perspectives as we navigate our relationships and worries. We also talk about Merle’s work as a legacy educator and how she helps people live more intentionally by asking them to live out the legacy they want to leave behind. Merle has been journaling since 1974, and for fourteen years, she culled through her 359 journals taking excerpts according to approximately seventy topics. In June 2022, Living and Leaving My Legacy, Vol. 1, a book containing eleven of these topics, was released. The second volume will be published this month on June 20. As the director of educational outreach at the Holocaust Documentation and Education Center for twenty-six years, Merle worked closely with hundreds of Holocaust survivors helping them to pass along their Legacy of Remembrance to hundreds of thousands of students and teachers. When she retired from the Holocaust Center, she developed a course entitled Living and Leaving Your Legacy® and teaches and speaks to audiences locally, nationally, and internationally. You can get in touch with Merle at merlersaferstein.com and you can find her books on Amazon! References: Gateless Writing

After a brief hiatus for my vacation, I’m so glad to bring this episode to you with my guest Gauri Yardi, a writer and multidisciplinary creative, naturopath, and creative wellbeing coach. She creates resources for tired and burnt out creatives to help regain the energy to make their incredible art through holistic nervous system care. Gauri noticed that when professionals would discuss burnout, they would talk about mindset and sleep, but rarely about the way stress impacts our body. She’s determined to change that. We discuss why it’s so hard to rest, how it can be downright painful sometimes when we’re used to being flooded with stimuli, and the ways we can start to care for our nervous systems using what Gauri calls the Four Pillars. Gauri’s accessible approach to nervous system care sets us on the path to healing and finding a fulfilling creative practice that avoids burnout. You can find out more about Gauri’s work through the links below! Instagram: @gauri.yardi Website: gauriyardi.com Creative burnout quiz Ebook/Audiobook: A Creative’s Guide to Burnout Re.Creation Masterclass References: Pokey the Penguin Atomic Habits by James Clear Butterflies (feat. Aurora) by Tom Odell

Sophie Cannata-Bowman is an anti-perfectionist book editor and writing coach, a playwright, theatre performer, rock climber, and amateur herbalist. In today’s episode, she joined me to look at improvisation and the ways it can help us get unstuck and find a more joyful writing practice. We talk about Sophie’s experience growing up around creativity and storytelling, her study of plays and acting and the ways a writer’s words can be translated by actors. In the writing world, there are a lot of rules that people want us to follow and a heavy focus on critique. But what if we focused more on opening the valves of our creativity and emotions? How far could we stretch ourselves if we allowed improvisation to lead the way rather than form and function? Maybe we’d have a little more freedom to find joy in our practice. You can get in touch with Sophie to learn more about her coaching and editing services at sophiacbowman.com or on Instagram @the.antiperfectionist.editor.

Today I was joined by my kindred perfectionism buddy and editor of speculative fiction, Erika Steeves. We talk about our instant connection over perfectionism when we met last year, and you might hear some familiar descriptions of your own perfectionism and self-doubt that echo in your head each day just as it does ours. We discuss how ugly art has helped us build up a tolerance for imperfection–because what is perfectionism but having zero tolerance for imperfection?–and slowly, over time, we’ve been able to do scary things even when our bodies scream at us to cancel recording a certain podcast episode (ahem). Erika has found comfort in focusing on the process of art rather than the product, and we discuss the irony in waiting until you CAN do something before you’ll actually do it. How exactly are we supposed to get to that point if we won’t start somewhere?? Perfectionists, this one is for you. I mean, this whole podcast is for you, but this episode especially. You can get in touch with Erika through Instagram @erika.steeves.edits or through her website erikasteeves.com. References: Creating Through Perfectionism Workshop: ko-fi.com/scribesunshine/shop

Can you believe it? One whole year of The Ugly Podcast! I’m so proud of my little bundle of joy, and to celebrate, my original co-host and lifetime creative partner, Emerson Lee, joins me for a vulnerable conversation about coming to terms with the messy middle. We’re both painfully honest about where we’re at with our businesses, and I had to come down from a monster vulnerability hangover afterward, which I’m sure will rear its head again as I officially release this episode. But I think it’s important to share with you all how things are going and how I’m truly filled with so much self-doubt these days. But the important thing is that I’m not letting it stop me from looking ahead and celebrating what I’ve accomplished in one year of podcasting. We talk about the limitations we place on ourselves, coming to terms with our art when it doesn’t yield fame and fortune, and the futures of our businesses and exciting things to come. If you haven’t already, go follow Emerson on Instagram at @letsmakemoments for education around disability justice, dementia, and living fully. You can also purchase their MoMoMaps and Treasure Hunt sessions at makinghappymemories.com/services. References: Medora Frei’s memoir, These Are My Flowers: My Story of Composting Trauma Into Colorful Art

This week I’m joined by Cami Ostman, the founder of The Narrative Project. She’s written for Adventures Northwest and the Psychology Today blogger series as well as her own blog: 7marathons7continents.com. Cami has been profiled in O Magazine, Fitness Magazine, The Atlantic, and the Washington Post. Cami believes words are powerful and that we CREATE our identities with words—as we write, we become! We chat about Cami’s original creative wound, how she came to write her memoir, Second Wind: One Woman’s Midlife Quest to Run Seven Marathons on Seven Continents, and her four pillars of successful completion—the ingredients necessary to finish writing your book (or tackling any big challenge in life!). Cami runs The Narrative Project, which offers programs and resources for writers to get their books done. Cami’s nine-month program provides the four pillars we talk about in this episode so that you can finish your story. At The Narrative Project, they believe that writers are the change agents and movement makers in the world, and that everyone deserves to share their story. If you’d like to get involved with them, go to thenarrativeproject.net and sign up for their free monthly Mastermind Your Book meeting, complete their Inner Critic quiz, or apply to the nine-month program! References: Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert

Today I’m joined by Mae Wagner, an author, speaker, advocate, trauma mentor, and community builder. We discuss what it means to use creativity to process trauma by helping identify harmful coping mechanisms, find agency, and listen to our intuition. Mae says that creativity allows us to shed light on parts of ourselves that thrive in darkness, paving the way for healing and self-discovery. We also talk about Mae’s own relationship to creativity and the freedom that came with taking her own advice she’d been giving to clients for years: Yes, she too was creative and was allowed to delve into her messy creativity without the pressure of perfection. 🤯 To learn more about Mae’s work or to purchase her memoir, head to rainydayinmay.com or find her on Instagram @rainydayinmay. References We Can Do Hard Things Podcast w/ Glennon Doyle Presence: Bringing Your Boldest Self to Your Biggest Challenges by Amy Cuddy

In today’s episode, I chatted with artist, writer, and accidental astrologer, Heather Buchanan. You know her from her distinctive, goofy, watercolors and oil paintings with noseless faces as well as her weekly, totally real, horoscopes, Horror Scoops. We discussed her days of painting portraits and when she realized that she wanted to find her own style rather than relying on what other people wanted to see and what would make her money. Along with that process came putting in hours of work that no one would ever see, dealing with the fear of showing work that’s completely different than people were used to seeing, and learning to trust her inner weirdo. Talking to Heather gave me so much hope in the creative process. Particularly in the hours of work that no one will see–those scribbles and doodles, those tiny poetry blurbs and short stories and first drafts–it’s all flexing the creative muscles and getting to know who you are and what you want to bring into the world. And when we bring our authentic weirdness into our art and share it with others, we give everyone permission to show up in their weirdness too. What a gift! You can follow Heather on Instagram @heatherbuchanan and @horror.scoops, and you can purchase some of her incredible art at heatherbuchanan.ca. References: Heather’s interview with CBC Hanni’s Kim Kardashian sculpture

Leisa Greene, the founder of Indie It Press, spent the first forty-one years of her life completely unaware that she had anything creative to offer the world. Coming into her creativity later in life, Leisa immediately felt the imposter syndrome. “Who do I think I am?” “I haven’t been dreaming of this since I was a kid, so I must not be a real writer.” In learning to navigate the creative process, she began learning more about imposter syndrome and how all artists of every medium and every level experience imposter syndrome. And in fact, the antidote–if there is any–is to simply realize that we’re not alone. We talk about the origins of Indie It Press, a platform for indie artists who struggle with imposter syndrome, which aims to rip down the gates that prevent so many new writers from pursuing their dreams by giving them a place to share their work, get published, and improve their craft. When Leisa joined me for this episode, I thought we’d be talking about the imposter experience–and we did, don’t get me wrong–but what we ended up connecting over the most was our deep gratitude for this creative life we get to explore. Our conversation turned into a joyful celebration of why we keep going even though we feel like we’re frauds. And that’s what you deserve too! Because even though we might always feel like imposters, expressing our creativity is also where we find the most belonging. You can connect with Leisa on Instagram @indieitpress or indieitpress.com or follow her personal Instagram page @leisa_greene. This year with Indie It Press is the Year of Creativity, and they’re offering new membership packages and courses for writers to advance their skills and join a community of creatives. Head to their website to learn more!

My guest today is changing how I see myself as a writer. Meg is a developmental editor, writer, journalist, and certified Gateless Writing teacher, and her new Gateless Writing salons aim to take down the inner critic and get writers more deeply in touch with themselves and their creativity. Gateless Writing is a framework developed by acclaimed author and Fulbright Scholar Suzanne Kingsbury and is based in neuroscience and Zen principles. In a communal space, it removes the fear of rejection from the creative process, allowing you to quiet your inner critic and encourage your creativity to thrive. The emphasis on critique and harsh feedback that permeates writing culture can make us feel like we just can’t “hack it” or that we have nothing to say that’s worth hearing. But the beauty of Gateless Writing is in moving away from what is “good” or “bad” and instead finding what resonates and what is powerful, and then letting it go by speaking it aloud to each other. I joined her first Gateless Writing salon a week before recording this and was electrified by the experience. It was humbling and bolstering all at once. We talk about how using this method helped Meg realize that she has more to say and has inspired her to get back to writing for the sake of writing, and she is now working on her first novel. You can try out this method with Meg by signing up for her upcoming Gateless Writing salons in January, February, and March. Be sure to sign up for her newsletter as well to stay in the know about future salons and offers, and follow her on Instagram @bymegmcintyre for more delightful writing content.

In today’s episode, I’m joined by another Lauren who is basically my twin. Lauren Henderson is a self-proclaimed creative dabbler. She’s been an engineer for consulting firms for twelve years and is specialized in technical editing and quality control. Throughout most of those years, she’s had creative side hustles, including book review blogging, selling used books, making pottery, and freelance editing. After deciding to pursue freelance editing about two and a half years ago, she ran into roadblocks around mindset and childhood trauma and since then has been leaning into her creativity as a way back to herself and her purpose. Her current creative hobbies include watercolor, writing, energy work practices, and most recently, performing in a musical. We talk about how easy it is to get stuck in our heads about creative pursuits, either holding ourselves back entirely or fixating on things to save us from how we’re feeling. It’s so easy to let our minds run the show and get stuck on a hamster wheel of perfectionism and inaction. What Lauren has come to learn is that getting back into our bodies and learning to recognize our own creative spirits can help us break the cycle. And you just might find that it’s not as scary as you thought it would be! To stay in touch with Lauren, you can follow her on Instagram @laurehender. References: Puttylike

My guest today is Rey Ward, a youth development professional who uses art and creativity as part of a trauma-informed practice when serving young clients. Working with kids has taught them infinite lessons on seeing beauty in imperfection and finding healing in the process rather than the result. We talk about how creativity gives us space to run free and get our brain zoomies out—because we’re just a bunch of weird little animals after all—and how kids need that unstructured space to let go of the perfectionism that’s already ingrained in them at such a young age. There is this compulsion to treat art like an assignment—How do I do it? What are the rules?—and we talk about the freedom that comes along with reframing your worldview to see that there are no rules in creativity (or in life). We have the freedom to make this life what we want it to be. So how can we connect to those parts of ourselves that want to roam? How can we center those parts of ourselves that are often pushed to the wayside? What do you really want and how do you want to express yourself? We discuss how ugly art has helped us start to find these answers for ourselves. References: Favianna Rodriguez on Instagram @favianna1