Imaginary Worlds

In the years since my 2020 episode Fantasy and Fascism, I knew that I had to make a follow-up episode. The political landscape was changing in ways I didn’t expect while major sci-fi fantasy franchises were reflecting those anxieties. Last time, I focused on how SFF worlds depicted fascism. This time, I wanted to look at the other half of the equation -- why people lose faith in democracy. I interviewed Trinity College Dublin professor David Kenny about his paper on the lessons we can learn from the collapse of the old Republic in Star Wars. I also talked with historian and podcaster Stefan Sasse, and teacher and writer Shawn Taylor about why the New Republic made the same mistakes, and all new ones. Plus, we look at what it takes to maintain democracy in the latest Star Trek shows, and X-Men ’97. Spoilers included. Today’s episode is brought to you by TodayTix, ShipStation and GreenChef. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first TodayTix purchase. Go to shipstation.com and use the code IMAGINARY to sign up for your free 60-day trial. Go to greenchef.com/imaginary50 and use the code IMAGINARY50 to get 50% off, plus 20% off your next two months. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Who really composed the scores of Dune, Interstellar, Blade Runner 2049, The Dark Knight, Man of Steel, Pirates of the Caribbean and The Lion King? Were they all written by Hans Zimmer? Or were those scores put together by a team of musicians at Hans Zimmer’s studio Remote Control? The podcast Twenty Thousand Hertz went behind-the-scenes and got a rare glimpse at the creative process of one of the most revered film composers in the world. Plus, I talk with Dallas Taylor, the host of 20K Hertz, about why visiting Hans Zimmer’s studio was almost like a religious experience for him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The hottest trend in fantasy novels – in fact the hottest trend in publishing overall – is fantasy romance or romantasy. These stories take place in worlds with dragons, faeries, vampires and werewolves but the driving plot is romance with a guaranteed happy ending. For many fans of traditional fantasy novels, the fact that romantasy exists may be surprising news. But romantasy is a cultural and economic juggernaut. Dartmouth professor Marcela di Blasi and cultural critic Kayleigh Donaldson explain where romantasy came from and how it became so popular. Fantasy authors C.L. Polk, and J.D. Evans talk about why they came to romantasy and how fans have had to create their own spaces. And Katherine Zofrea gives me a tour of The Ripped Bodice, a romance bookstore with an ample fantasy section. Plus, we hear readings by actress Tanya Rich. In the episode, we heard about some of the most famous romantasy authors like Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Professor Marcela di Blasi is working on a non-fiction book about BIPOC romantasy authors, and she also recommends these books. Anna Marie McLemore’s When The Moon Was Ours Zoraida Cordova's Hollow Crown Duology Analeigh Sbrana's Lore of the Wilds Kimberly Lemming's That Time I Got Drunk and Saved a Demon Sabaa Tahir's An Ember in the Ashes series Gabriela Romero LaCruz's The Sun and the Void Mikayla D. Hornedo's Blood and Brujas Claire Legrand’s Lightbringer trilogy. Today's episode is sponsored by ShipStation, Henson Shaving, TodayTix and Babbel. Go to www.shipstation.com and use the code IMAGINARY to sign up for your free 60-day trial. Visit www.hensonshaving.com/imaginary and enter IMAGINARY at checkout to get 100 free blades with your purchase. You must add both the 100-blade pack and the razor for the discount to apply. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use the promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first Today Tix purchase. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com/imaginary Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Book banning is hitting libraries across America, and many of the titles being banned or challenged are fantasy books or graphic novels – especially LGBTQ content. Malinda Lo has been tracking how her work is being targeted, like her novel Ash which is a queer reimagining of Cinderella. I talk with Malinda about how she’s been tracking the attacks on her work and fighting back. Plus, we hear a version of my 2018 episode Fahrenheit 451 Still Burns featuring Neil Gaiman, whose work is currently banned in several states. Go to incogni.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Did you know that in retirement, George Lucas decided to host a live talk show with his sidekick Watto? That’s the conceit of The George Lucas Talk Show starring Connor Ratliff (from the podcast Dead Eyes) as Lucas, and Griffin Newman (from The Tick) playing the alien character Watto. They’ve had famous guests on the show, including people who know Lucas in real life. The guests have to pretend that Connor is George. Over the past 10 years, the show had grown into a cult phenomenon to the point where there’s now a documentary about it called, I’m “George Lucas”: A Connor Ratliff Story. Connor and I talk about why he’s fascinated with what defines success or failure, and how it’s become a theme in his work. We also discuss his new podcast Tiny Dinos, which is like a combination of Jurassic Park and The Tonight Show on a micro-scale. This episode is sponsored by TodayTix, Incogni and Henson Shaving. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use the promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first Today Tix purchase. Go to incogni.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan. Visit www.hensonshaving.com/imaginary to pick a razor and the use code IMAGINARY to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the past 40 years, Shigeru Miyamoto has been inventing the modern video game one pixel at a time. From Donkey Kong to Super Mario Bros to The Legend of Zelda, Miyamoto turned wonder and exploration into game mechanics, and incorporated his personal experiences into his games. I talk with Illinois Institute of Technology dean Jennifer deWinter and Oakland University professor Sam Srauy about how Miyamoto changed Nintendo, and where his influence can be seen in big budget and indie video games today. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com/IMAGINARY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Joe Dever died in 2016, he hadn’t written the last several books in his Lone Wolf series. The Lone Wolf books take place in a deeply rich fantasy universe, and they’re written as a combination of choose-your-own-adventure stories and role playing games like D&D. Joe’s final wish was that his son Ben would finish the series for him. However, Ben was unfamiliar with his father’s books, and the legions of Lone Wolf fans he would have to please. I talked with Ben Devere (who spells his last name differently) about the creative, practical, and personal struggles he went through as a writer, and how he was able to get to know his late father by immersing himself in his father’s fantasy world. Jonathan Stark, co-host of the official Lone Wolf podcast Journeys Through Magnamund, explains why Lone Wolf means so much to fans like him, and how he ended up fulfilling his own dreams of writing a Lone Wolf book. Today's episode is sponsored by Henson Shaving, Magic Spoon and Miracle Made. Visit www.hensonshaving.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Get your next delicious bowl of high-protein cereal at www.magicspoon.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to save five dollars off. Go to www.trymiracle.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to claim your free 3 piece towel set and save over 40% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the writer Nnedi Okorafor coined the term Africanfuturism, she wanted to distinguish sci-fi written about Africa from Afrofuturism, which is focuses on the experiences of Black people in the diaspora. Africanfuturism mixes the traditional with the futuristic in a way that resembles modern life in Africa, and many of these stories grapple with climate change. Although the writer Chinelo Onwualu says cli-fi isn’t a subgenre for African writers. It’s often baked into a lot of Africanfuturism because the continent is already at the forefront of climate emergencies. And the writers Suyi Davies Okungbowa and Wole Talabi explain that Africanfuturist cli-fi isn’t as dystopian as Western cli-fi. These visions of the future may feel daunting but there is often a sense of hope and the solutions are more community focused. The actress Nneka Okoye reads from their stories, and other works by African writers. This episode is sponsored by Babbel, Surf Shark and Magic Spoon Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com/IMAGINARY Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/IMAGINARY Go to MagicSpoon.com/IMAGINARY and use the code IMAGINARY to save five dollars off Reading list from this episode: Works of Nnedi Okorafor Wole Talabi’s anthology Convergence Problems Suyi Davies Okungbowa's novella Lost Ark Dreaming Chinelo Onwualu’s short story Letters to My Mother Dilman Dila’s story The Leafy Man from the book A Killing in the Sun Mame Bougouma’s story Lekki Lekki from Africanfuturism: An Anthology Omenana Magazine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Back in 2018, I interviewed language creator David J. Peterson about how he invented Dothraki for Game of Thrones and other fictional languages in fantasy worlds. David and his wife Jessie just finished a huge project – developing the Fremen language for Dune: Part Two. I talk with the couple about their creative process and the challenge of imagining simple English phrases in the Chakobsa language that Frank Herbert imagined in his Dune novels. We also hear my 2018 episode, “Do You Speak Conlang?” where I also talked with Marc Okrand, inventor of the Klingon language, and Robyn Stewart, a language consultant for Star Trek: Discovery. Plus, Jen Usellis -- a.k.a. Klingon Pop Warrior -- will give you a serious case of earworms (not the kind from Wrath of Khan.) For more episodes about Dune, check out my 2017 episode The Book of Dune, where I talked with Muslim fans of the series about the way Frank Herbert incorporated aspects of Islam into the books. And in 2021, I did an episode called The Ecology of Dune where I looked at the environmental messages in the books and whether Frank Herbert’s environmental sensibilities still hold up today. This episode is sponsored by Surfshark and Magic Spoon. Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/imaginary and enter the promo code IMAGINARY for three extra months for free. Get a custom bundle of Magic Spoon cereal at magicspoon.com/imaginary. Enter the promo code IMAGINARY at checkout to save five dollars off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Wizard of Oz is deeply ingrained into our culture. While many people can practically recite the 1939 movie, the original source material isn’t as well known. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum was published in 1900. There are a lot of theories as to what inspired Baum – but the answer may be who rather than what. Baum’s mother-in-law Matilda Joslyn Gage was a groundbreaking writer and activist who could’ve been in every high school history textbook if she hadn’t had a falling out with the leaders of the suffrage movement. But her ideas live on in The Land of Oz. I talk with historian Sally Roesch Wagner and UNC-Charlotte professor Dina Massachi about the politics of gender in Gage’s works and Baum’s stories. And I talk with therapist Dr. Gita Dorothy Morena who has a very personal connection to the books. Go to https://hensonshaving.com and enter IMAGINARY at checkout to get 100 free blades with your purchase. Remember to add both the 100-blade pack and the razor for the discount to apply. Try Surfshark risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/imaginary. Enter the promo code IMAGINARY for three extra months for free! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the previous episode, I interviewed documentary filmmaker Isaac Elliot-Fisher about He-Man and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Isaac had so many great anecdotes about the history of those franchises that I couldn’t fit in. In this bonus episode of outtakes, Isaac explains the history of the term toyetic, the haphazard way He-Man came together, and why the 1990 live action TMNT film was so much darker than the cartoon show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the final episode of our mini-series Class of '84, we look at two iconic franchises that launched in 1984: Transformers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. They came from opposite ends of the business spectrum. Transformers was a top-down marketing synergy between American and Japanese toy companies along with Marvel Comics to compete against He-Man -- another TV toy behemoth. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle would eventually rival them in cultural dominance, but it began with two indie comic book creators making a black and white comic as a lark. But Turtles and Transformers both ended up wrestling with similar questions around what happens when you put the cart before the horse in creating content to sell products. Documentary filmmaker Isaac Elliot-Fisher and Cartoon Art Museum curator Andrew Farago talk about the incredible rags to riches story of the Turtles creators, and how success changed them. And I talk with Bob Budiansky, who created many of the original Transformers characters for Hasbro and Marvel Comics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the second episode of our mini-series on groundbreaking works from 1984, we jack into the system and upload our minds into Neuromancer. William Gibson’s novel became a seminal work of cyberpunk, where he introduced words like “cyberspace” and storylines that would become tropes of the genre. Sci-fi writer Eileen Gunn, and professors Sherryl Vint of UC Riverside and Hugh O’Connell of UMass Boston discuss how Neuromancer not only predicted the future of technology with surprising accuracy, but it also imagined the way that high tech would help fuel a new type of hyper capitalism. I also talk with Chris Miller aka Silver Spook, creator of the game Neofeud, and Gareth Damian Martin, creator of the game Citizen Sleeper, about how they used indie games to bring cyberpunk back to its roots in Neuromancer. Also, Lincoln Michel discusses why in his novel The Body Scout, he wanted to bring cyberpunk out of cyberspace. Featuring readings by actor Varick Boyd. This week’s episode is sponsored by Ship Station, Henson Shaving and Babbel. Use the promo code “imaginary” at shipstation.com to sign up for a free 60-day trial. Visit hensonshaving.com/imaginary to pick the razor for you and use the code “imaginary” to get two years' worth of free blades. Get 50% off at Babbel.com/imaginary. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When I interviewed special effects artist Shannon Shea about The Terminator and other villains of ’84, we also discussed his experiences working on Terminator 2. He tells me about the many life-sized puppets of Arnold Schwarzenegger they built and how the industry has changed in the last 40 years. We also hear an outtake from my conversation with Neill Gorton about why the industry is moving away from depicting villains with scars and disabilities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This year marks the 40th anniversary of a lot of landmarks in pop culture, especially sci-fi and fantasy. So many franchises were born in 1984. Some came to define their genre or invent new genres. In this three-part mini-series, we look at how The Class of ’84 made their mark on the world. First up: the bad guys. 1984 was a great year for villains from The Terminator to Freddy Krueger to Gremlins and Ghostbusters. I talk with make-up and creature designers Neill Gorton and Shannon Shea (who worked on Terminator and Nightmare On Elm Street sequels) about why the '80s was a golden age of monsters. Criminal psychology professor Yannie ten Brooke analyzes the ’84 villains and why they scared us. And I talk with pastor and podcaster JR Forasteros about why they don’t make villains like they used to – for better and for worse. You can also find Shannon at Two Chez on Etsy. Today’s episode is sponsored by Magic Spoon and Green Chef. Go to magicspoon.com/imaginary to grab a variety pack and be sure to use our promo code IMAGINARY at checkout to save five dollars off your order. Go to greenchef.com/60imaginary and use the code 60imaginary to get 60% off, plus 20% off your next two months. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I was blown away by the Netflix animated series Blue Eye Samurai. I’m not alone, it has 100% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I was pleasantly surprised to discover the supervising director and producer of the show, Jane Wu, began her career as an animation storyboard artist. In fact, we were working at different animation studios at the same time in L.A. We talk about why she took a live action approach to planning animated sequences in Blue Eye Samurai, and how she wanted to represent Japanese culture in a way that’s never been done in Western animation. Jane also discusses how her background in martial arts and how her personal history helped her understand the main character Mizu, a woman with dual identities on a quest for revenge 17th century Japan. Use the promo code IMAGINARY at shipstation.com to sign up for your free 30-day trial. Go to hensonshaving.com and enter IMAGINARY at checkout to get 100 free blades with your purchase. (Note: you must add both the 100-blade pack and the razor for the discount to apply.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the 1960s, Ursula K. le Guin represented a changing of the guard in science fiction literature. She was part of a generation of novelists who questioned the colonist mindset which had influenced American sci-fi for most of the 20th century. Le Guin came to this understanding not just as a moral stance or an intellectual exercise. Issues of racism and colonialism were personal to her. This episode, originally titled “The Word For Man Is Ishi,” comes from the podcast The Last Archive from Pushkin Industries hosted by Jill Lepore and Ben Naddaff-Hafrey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week's episode is an original audio drama. In previous episodes, I’ve interviewed Captain Hook, vampires, colonists on the moon, and H.P. Lovecraft’s brain in a jar -- or at least actors playing those characters. Now I’ve expanded my roster of fictional interviews to include iconic characters from Christmas tales. In this 21st century holiday tale, I am visited by supernatural entities who warn me that humanity is in danger because we no longer believe they’re real. Featuring performances from Torian Brackett, Alexandra Reed and Bill Lobley. Get 55% off a Babbel subscription at www.babbel.com/imaginary To claim your free 3 piece towel set and save over 40% off Miracle Made sheets go to www.trymiracle.com/imaginary and use the code "imaginary." Give one annual membership of MasterClass and get one free at www.masterclass.com/imagine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In honor of Doctor Who’s 60th anniversary, I’ve rewritten my 2018 episode about Doctor Who with updates on how the series has evolved, and new insights I’ve had about Doctor Who since I made this episode -- and since The Doctor has become one of my favorite characters. Media critic Emmet Asher-Perrin discusses how the history of The Doctor’s regenerations over 60 years is a story about an alien being who is striving to be better but keeps overshooting the mark. I talk with Emmet’s partner Sylas K. Barrett and comedian Riley Silverman about how The Doctor’s gender transitions have been an apt metaphor for the transgender experience. Also, Nick Randall of the BBC and SNS Online, historian Robin Bunce, and playwright Mac Rogers talk about the show’s significance culturally, and what it means to them as fans. Get two memberships for the price of one at MasterClass.com/Imagine. Go to ShipStation.com and use the code "Imaginary" to sign up for a free 60-day trial. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One Piece is one of the biggest franchises in the world. The manga and anime have broken records in sales and viewership. The live action adaptation on Netflix was a hit. And the series holds a special place among fans who feel like they’re part of the Straw Hat pirate crew. But it may be the tragic backstories of the characters which tie it all together. I talk with co-host of the One Piece podcast Shannon Strucci, YouTuber Jordan Silva, artist Steve Yurko and Crunchyroll writer Daniel Dockery about how One Piece’s creator Eiichiro Oda is able to combine zany humor with emotional gut punches, and why so many fans identify with aspects of the characters’ backstories, even when the storylines are completely fantastical. Go to www.TryMiracle.com/imaginary to save over 40%. And use the code “imaginary” at checkout to get 3 free towels and save an extra 20% Get 55% off at www.Babbel.com/imaginary Go to www.HelloFresh.com/imaginaryfree and use the code “imaginaryfree” for free breakfast for life Give One Annual Membership and Get One Free at www.MasterClass.com/imagine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices