The Last Human Voice Podcast

Should the creation of Deepfakes be a protected right under the banner of Free Speech? How do existing laws balance our right to Free Speech with our Right to Privacy? Dr Dimitri Kagiaros is Assistant Professor in Law at the University of Durham and an expert on the regulation of Freedom of Expression. He has written extensively on the topic and his work has influenced changes in the law to preserve freedom of expression. Most recently, he has collaborated with our own Dr Mathilde Pavis on a (soon to be published) paper which examines whether freedom of expression can be interpreted to create a ‘right to’ deepfake people with - or, more controversially - without their consent. So, what might the legal parameters be for content creators wishing to exploit Deepfake technology for artistic, commercial or even personal use? We're so glad you asked...

This time, we get a philosopher's take on AI. Jumbly Grindrod is a lecturer in philosophy at the University of Reading. He specializes in the philosophy of language and epistemology, which refers to the theory of knowledge itself. Does it - or should it - matter to us whether AI or a human being is talking, writing or engaging with us? What happens when we start regarding Artificial Intelligence as sentient or human? And does generative AI bring anything new, in terms of questions, concepts or challenges, to a philosopher... or is it just a new shape given to age-old questions about what is real and what it means to be fully human?

In this episode, we select from the latest AI stories that have grabbed the headlines or slipped by stealth into our feeds. From the miscommunication that made Mamma Mia actor, Sara Poyzer, trend on Twitter, to the discovery of Marvin Gaye's long lost demos, we look at legislation, regulation and how artists and creative performers are responding to the relentless pace of AI development. When - if ever - is it acceptable to put words in someone's mouth? Can Voluntary Codes provide sufficient protection for human content creators? And could your digital avatar still be performing and creating, long after your final curtain call?

Much of the fear generated by AI is about theft; the companies that own the technology will steal your image, replicate your voice and replace you with an AI version of you that takes your job. But perhaps it doesn't have to be that way. Since their collaboration on the documentary "Gerry Anderson: A Life Uncharted", Ben Field and Jamie Anderson have continued to work together under the banner of their production company, Deep Fusion Films. Their pioneering use of AI, coupled with their ethical approach to its use in film making means that they are now regularly consulted by industry partners and organisations looking to use AI responsibly. They talk to us about how their own approach has developed, how they envisage the future of AI in film and whether they have found an "ick" line in AI use that they're not prepared to cross...

How would it feel to see a digital deepfake of someone you love who has died? What would you need to consider before agreeing to create it? Jamie Anderson and Ben Field can answer both of these questions and more. "Gerry Anderson: A Life Uncharted" is their 2022 documentary about the life and work of Gerry Anderson, TV and film producer, director, write and technical pioneer - and Jamie's father. Together, Ben and Jamie crafted a fascinating and often moving documentary from hours of film footage, TV programmes, photos and interviews. They also created a deepfake version of Jamie's Dad to bring his own words back to life. They talk in detail about their pioneering work in merging AI technology with content that is profoundly human.

Dr Dominic Lees is an award-winning filmmaker and director. He is also Associate Professor of Filmmaking at the University of Reading, with a research specialism in deepfakes. In 2019, "Virtual Maggie" was among his projects, exploring how AI technology could be used to resurrect Margaret Thatcher for a contemporary drama called "Rebel Bus". Dr Lees joined us for an in-depth discussion of the practical and ethical questions raised by digital deepfakes. How far has AI come since 2019? What creative tensions can result from using technology that's still in development? And why, of all the people one could "resurrect", did he choose Margaret Thatcher?

Who is going to own your clone? Who gets to control your digital double after you're dead? And what kind of deal can unions do for the departed? In the second of two episodes dedicated to unpicking the SAG-AFTRA Deal, we move on from the rules and requirements for the creation and use of "employment-based replicas". These are replicas tied to specific motion pictures. Our focus this time is on "independently created digital replicas": those that have been created by the performer themselves (or other companies and agencies) for use in any project - now, or in the future...

On the 14th of July 2023, the American actors’ union ‘SAG-AFTRA’ joined the strike already begun by the WGA (Writers' Guild of America.) The dispute with the AMPTP (Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers) was about pay, working conditions and AI. An interim deal was struck in November and approved by SAG-AFTRA members on the 5th of December 2023. So, what's in the deal and what do we think of it?

Our guest in this episode is Yvonne Muinde, an award-winning visual effects artist whose credit list takes in a range of iconic films, including the Planet of the Apes, The Hobbit, and Avatar. An established fine artist, Yvonne's work has featured in several collections, including the The Chemistry of Color Collection at the Philadelphia Museum of Fine Art. She currently works and creates out of her studio, Ikweta Arts, located in Nairobi, Kenya. Yvonne shares her thoughts on the expanding role of AI in film-making and the expectations that go with that, of her concerns for the next generation of visual artists and of her own experience, navigating the path from traditional to digital artist and back again.

“A ground-breaking, innovative new contract”; that’s the headline for the deal negotiated between SAG-AFTRA, the US Actors’ union and Replica, the company using AI to create digital voice replicas. What does the deal cover? What does it omit? As the first agreement of its kind, what could it mean for actors and performers both in and outside the US? And is it truly “ground-breaking”? In this episode, we talk through the details and sum up what we believe to be the pros and cons of the new deal.

What does it mean to have your voice or performance cloned? Is there a difference between cloning and synthesis? If I agree to the creation of my digital double, do I have any say in what it does next? And wherever it goes, will the Law be running to catch up? Put simply, do I want to be a clone?

The phrase "Know your worth" is often repeated among artists, performers and other freelance workers who have the responsibility for negotiating their own rates and terms of employment for every job they do. But how do you go about valuing yourself and your work? And how do you then convey that to an employer, especially in a landscape where cost, rather than creativity, seems to be the driving force? That's the focus of this shorter episode, discussing how we put a price on our skills and how the Law can underpin those tricky conversations about fees and fairness.

Agents are the hard-negotiating, multi-tasking, contract-savvy industry experts, working to match the Talent they represent with paying clients. In what can be long contractual chains, agents provide a layer of protection for performers, who trust them to act in their best interest. Our guest this time is Daniel Hinchliffe, managing director of the Soundcheck Group which includes a UK talent agency for actors and performers in theatre, tv, film and radio and also looks after directors and choreographers. Daniel also happens to have a Law degree, a Master’s degree in Intellectual Property Law, specialising in Copyright Law and Artificial Intelligence, which has now led him to a PhD in the same area. All of the which means that Daniel is singularly well qualified to discuss the significance of Artificial Intelligence not only for Performance, but for the safeguarding of contracts, for the relationship between artists and agents and for the future role of agents, themselves…

The EU Artificial Intelligence Act has been described as the most ambitious attempt to date at creating a legal framework for AI. We are joined this time by Dragos Tudorache, Member of the European Parliament, Vice-President of the Renew Europe Group and - as one of two Rapporteurs leading on the proposed Act - a key figure in policy making. What is the role of a Rapporteur? What does it mean to regulate or legislate for AI? What is different about the approach the EU is taking? And what might all of this mean for the day to day lives of performers and creative workers, within Europe and around the world?

What does the term "Buyout" mean? What's the best way to respond to buyout requests from clients? And if you've agreed to a buyout, does that mean you consent to any and all uses - even to AI imitations of your voice/performance without additional consent or payment? In a discussion that ranges from fertiliser to Freedom of Contract, taking in Spandau Ballet, travel agents and Cannibalism on the way, we look at the good, the bad and the meaningless of the term "Buyout".

In this episode, we talk about performers’ moral rights. What are they? Who is entitled to them? And can they help performers and other creatives to protect themselves and their work from potential AI abuses?

How celebrated artist Jake Elwes is queering AI data sets and challenging big tech to think about gender, cultural bias and ethics in data mining through their creative practice. For more on Jake and their work, visit: https://www.jakeelwes.com/

How unions are taking active steps to champion artists and performers who are facing job displacement and replacement by AI. We speak to Liam Budd, Industrial Officer for Audio and New Media within Equity , the British union for creative workers

For Artists, AI offers an exciting toolkit - particularly tools for performance synthesis. But alongside the creative opportunities looms a potential threat to their creative futures. Annette, Mathilde and Marcus talk with composer, musician and technologist, Sarah Angliss, about her integration of technology and music and her experiences of working with AI. Sarah considers some of the ethical dilemmas presented by AI and also tells us why we've been here before. Surprisingly, the answer involves clog dancing...

Why have America’s actors and writers gone on strike? And is why AI so important in the biggest Hollywood artists' strike since 1960? Tim Friedlander is founder of the National Association of Voice Artists (NAVA). Tim chats with Marcus, Mathilde and Annette about current events in the US. He explains what has led SAG-AFTRA and the Writers' Guild of America (WGA) to take action. Who is striking and why and what are the possible outcomes for actors and writers?