Irregular Warfare Podcast

Disclaimer: Episode 115 is a re-release of our original Episode 96, which explored the 1999 Kargil Conflict and its implications for irregular warfare in South Asia. Due to an unfortunate data corruption issue with our original file, we are re-publishing this important discussion. The content remains as relevant and insightful as when it first aired, featuring our distinguished guests Professor Sumit Ganguly and Professor Tricia Bacon. Our guests kick off by exploring the regional security dynamics germane to South Asia. They delve into the impact of nuclear weapons on fostering irregular warfare strategies, highlighting the specific ways in which the acquisition of nuclear capabilities by India and Pakistan has reshaped their relationship. This shift has driven Pakistan towards a heightened dependence on proxy forces to achieve its political objectives. The discussion culminates in a focused analysis of the bilateral relationship between New Delhi and Islamabad, offering a clear and insightful perspective on the evolving dynamics between the two nations. Professor Sumit Ganguly is a specialist on the contemporary politics of South Asia and a distinguished professor of political science at Indiana University. He currently serves as the Editor-in-Chief of the International Studies Review, and in 2019, Professor Ganguly authored a Foreign Affairs article entitled, “Why the India-Pakistan Crisis Isn’t Likely to Turn Nuclear,” which serves as the anchor for episode 96. Professor Tricia Bacon is an Associate Professor at American University’s School of Public Affairs. Prior to teaching at American, Professor Bacon worked on counterterrorism for over ten years at the Department of State, including in the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, the Bureau of Counterterrorism, and the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. Her work on counterterrorism in the intelligence community has received numerous accolades.

Episode 114 examines the formation of the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU) and its mission to integrate Silicon Valley technology within the Department of Defense innovation sphere. The guests are the co-authors of Unit X: How the Pentagon and Silicon Valley are Transforming the Future of War, which is the foundation for the conversation. Our guests begin by outlining DIU’s origin and mission emphasizing the importance of commercial technology in deterring and winning future conflicts. Our guests then discuss the challenges DIU faced with skepticism about the role of young companies in Silicon Valley and the bureaucratic problems associated with the DoD’s current budgeting and acquisition processes. They then provide insight into DIU’s core concept of operationalizing commercial technology faster than adversaries as a mean of supporting the National Defense Strategy. Lastly, they discuss adversarial approaches to innovation and use examples from both historical and contemporary conflicts to highlight important lessons learned for policy makers and practitioners.

Episode 113 examines the challenges presented by the Islamic State Khorasan (ISK) in Afghanistan within the context of the three-year anniversary of U.S. withdrawal from the region. Our guests share their extensive backgrounds, research, and practical experience related to the emergence of ISK in Afghanistan and Pakistan. They define the current operational environment that exists in the region with a particular focus on the power vacuum created by U.S. withdrawal in August of 2021. They then delve into how ISK adopted a two-pronged strategy of forging key alliances and rivalries to exploit tensions and build a diverse talent pipeline for their organization. Our guests also offer insight into the challenges of defining and addressing the ISK threat by evaluating the feasibility and limitations of “over-the-horizon” counterterrorism capabilities. Finally, they provide policy and strategy considerations for the future of counterterrorism operations. Andrew Mines is a senior program specialist in the Asia Center at the United States Institute of Peace. He is the co-author of the book, The Islamic State in Afghanistan and Pakistan: Strategic Alliances and Rivalries, which is the foundation for today’s conversation. LTC Paul Lushenko is an Assistant Professor and the Director of Special Operations at the U.S. Army War College. He earned his Ph.D. and M.A. in International Relations from Cornell University. Paul has deployed continuously, directing intelligence operations at the Battalion, Combined Task Force, and Joint Task Force levels. In his most recent operational assignment, Paul served as the Senior Intelligence Officer for the Joint Special Operations Task Force in Afghanistan. Frank Struzinski and Julia McClenon are the hosts for Episode 113. Please reach out to them with any questions about this episode or the Irregular Warfare Podcast. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners in the field of irregular warfare. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources.

Episode 112 is the launch podcast for the SOF in Competition Special Project. The Irregular Warfare Initiative proudly announces the SOF in Competition Project. The intent is to coalesce the community of SOF policy makers, researchers, and practitioners to understand the role of SOF in addressing contemporary and future national security challenges. There already exists a global community of SOF researchers and practitioners poised to explore these questions to advance the profession. The SOF in Competition Project t provides a platform for this community to coalesce, to explore the role of SOF, and to invest in leaders and the broader community. If you are a SOF professional, this is your platform. We very much welcome article submissions, ideas for events and partnerships, podcast topics, and volunteers to join the community. Reach out to adam.darnley-stuart@irregylarwarfare.org to explore how to get involved.

Episode 111 examines the arguments against a United States Cyber Force. This episode is a two part series of Project Cyber that looks at the arguments for and against a Cyber Force. Our guests share their backgrounds and the history of the U.S. Cyber Command. They express their skepticism towards forming a new cyber force, advocating instead for continued evolution within the current framework. They then argue that cyber operations should remain integrated with existing service structures and emphasize the critical role of cyber in national security, and public safety. Our guests conclude by discussing the evolving digital landscape while urging policymakers to comprehend the gravity of cyber threats and the need for a more agile and integrated approach.

Episode 110 examines Illicit financing of violence in Sudan and Africa. Our guests begin by outlining definitions for licit and illicit networks in the context sponsoring proxies in and violence in Sudan. From there, they delve into how state actors use illicit networks to achieve objectives in competition. Finally, our guests offer insights to the complexities in competing with illicit networks to gain access and placement across the globe.

Episode 109 examines a recent report from the Foundation for Defense of Democracies on the arguments for a United States Cyber Force. This episode is a two part series of Project Cyber that looks at the arguments for and against a Cyber Force. Our guests delve into their long-standing experiences with U.S. Cyber Command and detail the current challenges in cyber force readiness, recruitment, training, and retention. They then discuss how despite significant funding, cyber force readiness hasn't progressed as expected, citing adversaries like Russia and China as examples of rapidly evolving cyber capabilities. They highlight the inadequacies of current service structures in cyber operations and suggest that a dedicated cyber force could better meet the demands of modern cyber warfare. The conversation also touches on the potential integration of existing units and the implications for relationships with organizations like the NSA and DISA.

Episode 108 examines the use of unmanned aerial systems across the spectrum of conflict. This episode is part of IWI’s special project, Project Air and Space Power. Our guests explore the use of the full range of UAS technology by both state and nonstate actors. They unpack the democratization of air power through the proliferation of small unmanned systems and address the race to find cheaper countermeasures for the technology. Finally, they address the advent of automation and the impact of private sector involvement.

Episode 107 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast examines how China uses its paramilitary and internal security forces to project power abroad and build global influence. Our guests begin by dissecting the Chinese security apparatus: contrasting the People’s Liberation Army with the CCP’s internal police forces and paramilitaries. They then explore how China uses these nontraditional security forces—which often aid foreign governments in maintaining regime stability—as an alternative to U.S. security assistance packages. Finally, our guests conclude by examining how the U.S. and its allies can compete with China more effectively in the realm of security cooperation.

Episode 106 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast examines how drones, robotics, and automation are changing the battlefield in Ukraine and how ARSOF has adapted. Our guests begin by outlining the significance of robotics and autonomous systems on the Ukrainian battlefield. From there, they delve into how US Special Operations formations are learning from Ukraine and changing their own formations. Finally, they end with a deep dive on how SOF forces have used drones in the past and how that compares to the modern fight and look at what changes SOF, industry and the US government may have to make to keep pace with the changing character of war.

Episode 105 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast contrasts security force assistance (SFA) efforts in Ukraine and Afghanistan. Our guests begin by outlining the significance of security force assistance and its pivotal role in Washington’s wider national security strategy. From there, they delve into a detailed analysis of SFA in both Afghanistan and Ukraine, extracting valuable lessons for policymakers and practitioners to inform future SFA policies. Finally, they end with a deep dive into SFA activities in Eastern Europe, shedding light on the socialization and transactional approaches needed to align incentives and enhance the combat capabilities of the United States’ international partners.

Episode 104 examines the role of intelligence professionals and agencies at the tactical and operational levels of irregular warfare while diving deeply into the links between US SOF and the CIA. Our guests begin with an overview of the history of the CIA and the development in intelligence capabilities throughout the Global War on Terror, and then they discuss ways that intelligence professionals can partner most effectively with other organizations. Finally, they close with a discussion about the future of intelligence collection.

Episode 103 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast examines the role that irregular conflicts played during the Cold War to inform today’s era of strategic competition. Our guests begin by explaining how irregular conflicts and capabilities play a role in strategic competition, despite policy structures in Washington that often silo great power conflict from irregular warfare. They then discuss evidence from the Cold War that suggests small, local wars often become battlegrounds between great powers. Finally, our guests conclude with a discussion of the kinds of irregular warfare interventions policymakers should consider for today’s era of great power competition and make recommendations for removing bureaucratic hurdles that would better integrate policies and practice for IW and strategic competition.

Episode 102 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast examines how special operations forces can disrupt the strategic designs of Washington’s adversaries. Our guests begin with an in-depth discussion on civil-military relations, examining the relationship between SOL/IC and SOCOM. They then discuss the unique capabilities that special operations forces bring to the table, both during peacetime competition and large scale combat operations. Finally, they address the complexities of interagency cooperation, and how irregular warfare units can leverage their skills to deter adversaries, impose outsized costs, and create relative positions of advantage.

In today's episode, we delve into the topic of disarmament, demobilization, and reintegration (DDR) of ex-combatants. Our guests explore the theoretical underpinnings of DDR, the motivations behind individuals joining armed groups, and effective strategies for reintegrating former combatants back into society.

In Episode 100 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast, we delve into the world of covert operations. Our guests begin by defining covert and clandestine operations, shedding light on their intricacies and historical significance. They then discuss the complexities of clandestine activities, and address the difficulties associated with translating irregular warfare and covert operations into tangible policies.

Episode 99 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast takes us to the final frontier as we examine irregular warfare in space. Our guests begin by explaining the importance of the space domain in the private and public spheres. They then give us multiple frameworks for thinking about space by using more familiar, terrestrial-based concepts to enhance our understanding of space competition. Finally, our guests conclude by contemplating how private industries could shape the space domain, and how U.S. policymakers should approach space-based deterrence.

Episode 98 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast delves into resistance warfare—with a specific focus on stay behind operations. Our guests begin by contrasting conventional conflict with resistance warfare. They then discuss the utility of stay behind operations by examining how small states can impose outsized costs on occupying powers. More specifically, they address how distributed resistance elements can frustrate aggressive powers by operating behind enemy lines. Finally, they end by providing policymakers with a framework for crafting indigenous, stay behind forces in the digital age.

Episode 97 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast focuses on a theory of armed politics as proposed by General Sir Nick Carter and Dr. Joe Felter. Our guests begin by describing the shifting landscape of the international order from the Cold War to today, and the resultant impact on alliances, partnerships, and competition across the globe. General Carter proposes a theory that emphasizes the need for those engaged in war today to deeply understand every level of politics, as neglecting this understanding can have catastrophic effects. Our guests reflect on the challenges of implementation, including tactical trade-offs and measuring effects. They conclude by considering the impact of rapidly evolving technology on this theory of armed politics, as well as the roles of the United States and United Kingdom in a world faced with disarray.

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is publishing! Do nuclear weapons play a stabilizing role by discouraging nuclear-armed states to go to war with one another? If so, are these states then incentivized to pursue their objectives vis-à-vis one another by indirect means and proxy conflict? These are the parallel dynamics described as the stability-instability paradox. Our guests on this episode, Professor Sumit Ganguly and Dr. Tricia Bacon, describe the theoretical underpinnings of this paradox and explore a real-world example—the 1999 Kargil conflict and the broader pattern of the India-Pakistan rivalry—to trace the impact of nuclear weapons on irregular warfare. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0