Irregular Warfare Podcast

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! What are the fundamental tenets of China's political warfare? What does it look like when Beijing employs political warfare in the real world? And how is it different, in both theory and practice, from traditional Western conceptualizations of warfare and its political component? This episode explores those questions and more. It features a conversation with two guests whose deep expertise gives them important perspectives on the subject. Dr. Ross Babbage is a nonresident senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, served as the head of strategic analysis in Australia’s Office of National Assessments, and is the author of the book The Next Major War: Can the US and its Allies Win against China? David Stilwell is the assistant secretary of state for the Bureau of East Asian and Pacific Affairs, a retired US Air Force officer, and former director of the China Strategic Focus Group at US Indo-Pacific Command. Together, they examine China’s practice of political warfare and how other states can counter it. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! Relations between the United States and China are characterized by growing competition and tension. This is true in a wide range of arenas, but particularly so when it comes to technology. US policy in recent years—from the move to keep companies such as Huawei out of US infrastructure to the CHIPS and Science Act enacted in 2022—is aimed at both preventing Chinese spying and containing China’s very ability to access high-end computing power. But where is US-China tech competition headed? In this episode—part of an episode swap with FP Live, produced by Foreign Policy—you’ll hear from Dan Wang, who explores that question along with Ravi Agrawal, Foreign Policy editor in chief. A visiting scholar at Yale Law School’s Paul Tsai China Center, Wang explains whether US regulatory measures are effective in actually curbing China’s ability to produce high-end semiconductor chips and proliferate its technology around the world. He also describes his pessimism about China’s long-term economic rise and his belief that the continued rapid pace of China’s technological development is not inevitable. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! Irregular warfare, by its nature, includes activities that distinguish it from those traditionally conducted by conventional forces. But if congressional oversight is designed with the latter in mind, does this create gaps in oversight of irregular warfare? If so, what can Congress do to address the problem? Our guests on this episode are Dr. Oona Hathaway, director of the Yale Law School Center for Global Legal Challenges, and Dr. Thomas Campbell, professor at Chapman University’s Dale E. Fowler School of Law and a former member of Congress. They discuss the complexities of the congressional Authorization for the Use of Military Force, the unique considerations surrounding Title 10 and Title 50 activities, and the responsibilities of various committees in overseeing these actions. They conclude by sharing their insights on what this means for both practitioners and policymakers. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! In what ways do irregular warfare and counterinsurgency overlap? Is China engaged in irregular warfare against its adversaries? What are some of the failures of the wars and conflicts of the last twenty years and why did they occur? What do IW practitioners need to do to avoid the mistakes and to ensure they learn the hard-won lessons of the last twenty years in IW and COIN? This episode explores these deeply important questions and features a conversation with two of the leading experts on the subject: David Kilcullen and John Nagl. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! What happens when authoritarianism expands into online environments? A form of digital repression takes shape. But what does that actually look like? What are the specific ways that authoritarian regimes use new technologies to control their populations? And how are resistance groups adapting to overcome digital repression? This episode addresses those questions as hosts Matt Moellering and Adam Darnley-Stuart are joined by Steven Feldstein, author of the book The Rise of Digital Repression: How Technology is Reshaping Power, Politics, and Resistance, and John Tullius, who retired from the CIA in 2019 and now teaches classes on intelligence at the Naval Postgraduate School. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! What does it mean when a state’s security sector undergoes what scholars call “elite capture”—a form of corruption in which military and defense resources are leveraged to benefit a small, powerful segment of society? What problems contribute to elite capture and is it possible to disentangle them? From a US policy perspective, what can be done to limit the risk of elite capture when engaging with countries vulnerable to it? This episode addresses all of these questions as Ambassador Anne Patterson, retired Lieutenant General Karl Eikenberry, and Dr. Louis-Alexandre Berg join host Julia McClenon. They bring their combined experience and expertise to a wide-ranging discussion on a deeply challenging policy issue. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Why do states engage in proxy warfare? How does what scholars call principal-agent theory explain the way proxy warfare actually plays out—particularly the challenges that arise when the interests of a principal and a proxy diverge? And as the US military continues to prepare for large-scale combat operations, how should the ability to leverage proxies factor into planning? This episode addresses these questions and more in wide-ranging discussing featuring three guests. Dr. Nakissa Jahanbani is an assistant professor in West Point's Department of Social Sciences and a researcher at the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point. Dr. Vladimir Rauta is a lecturer in politics and international relations at the University of Reading and the editor of the forthcoming Routledge Handbook of Proxy Wars. And retired Lieutenant General Ken Tovo served for almost forty years in the Army, including as commanding general of US Army Special Operations Command. Note: This episode was originally recorded and released by the Social Science of War podcast, a coproduction between the Modern War Institute at West Point and West Point's Department of Social Sciences.

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! Is it possible to deter adversaries in the cyber domain—and if so, how? What should the US Department of Defense be learning from the role of cyber in the war in Ukraine? How do activities in the cyber domain overlay on—and influence—irregular warfare? In this episode, hosts Matt Moellering and Adam Darnley-Stuart are joined by two expert guests. Ms. Mieke Eoyang is the deputy assistant secretary of defense for cyber policy and Dr. Erica Lonergan is an assistant professor at the Army Cyber Institute at West Point and coauthor of the book Escalation Dynamics in Cyberspace. Together, they examine some of the deeply challenging questions presented by the increasing prominence of cyberspace as a warfighting domain. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! When the US military set out to combat ISIS in Iraq in the mid-2010s, it did so determined to operate “by, with, and through” partner forces. That approach would prove to have advantages in the case of Operation Inherent Resolve. But it can also prove deeply challenging. This episode features a conversation with Brigadier General Pat Work, who served as the commander of 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division during Operation Inherent Resolve, and Mr. Jeff Martini, a senior researcher at the RAND Corporation and coauthor of a 2022 report on US ground force contributions in the fight against ISIS in Iraq. They discuss the conditions that encouraged an approach that placed partnered forces at the center of operational plans, before examining Operation Inherent Resolve's effectiveness and exploring the question of how the United States can best prepare for future partnered operations in global operational environment characterized by strategic competition. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! In the blurred spaces between peace and war, a contest over influence plays out. But how is the contest won? What are the components of an effective strategy in this gray zone? What role do irregular warfare campaigns play? And how do strong alliances enable these campaigns? This episode explores these questions and more, specifically looking at the competition for influence in the Indo-Pacific region, where China’s gray zone strategy is in competition with a network of actors, among which the strong US-Australia is a prominent feature. Hosts Adam Darnley-Stuart and Julia McClenon are joined by Clementine Starling, director of the Atlantic Council’s Forward Defense program, and Australian Senator David Van. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! For nearly two decades of constant operations during America’s post-9/11 wars, Army special operations forces played a central role at the tip of the spear. But how will they best contribute to future irregular warfare campaigns that take shape on a very different strategic landscape? In this episode, hosts Ben Jebb and Kyle Atwell are joined by Lieutenant Jonathan P. Braga, commanding general of US Army Special Operations Command, and P. W. Singer, a New York Times best-selling author and renowned national security futurist. Together, they explore the range of future threats that Army special operations forces will encounter, discuss how to harness the power of innovation to enable them to meet these threats, and recommend ways to optimize these uniquely trained and equipped soldiers and units for the future of irregular warfare. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative's new website to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! How much of a role have cyber warfare and digital information operations played since Russia's invasion of Ukraine? What about since 2014, when Russia seized Crimea and backed proxy forces in the eastern Donbas region? What lessons on cyber resilience emerge from an examination of Ukraine’s defense against Russian cyber actions? And what do Russia’s cyber operations against Ukraine tell us about the way it conceptualizes and organizes cyber activities? To explore these questions, this episode features a conversation with Gavin Wilde, a senior fellow in the Technology and International Affairs Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and former director for Russia, Baltic, and Caucasus affairs at the National Security Council, and Jason Kikta, who served for over twenty years in the United States Marine Corps, including seven years at United States Cyber Command designing and managing the national counter-APT and counter-ransomware missions. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative's new website, www.irregularwarfare.org, to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! It’s been described as the “terrorist’s dilemma”—the trade-offs between maintaining security and exercising command and control that terrorist organizations must make. But how can counterterrorism campaigns be designed to exploit that dilemma? What do government agencies and organizations charged with countering terrorist threats need to know about those pressures? And how should an understanding of the dilemma inform the development of counterterrorism policy? To explore those questions, hosts Jeff Phaneuf and Adam Darnley-Stuart are joined by two guests with deep expertise on the subject. Dr. Jake Shapiro directs the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project at Princeton University and is the author of the book that forms the basis of this discussion, The Terrorist’s Dilemma: Managing Violent Covert Organizations. And retired Colonel Chris Costa is currently the executive director of the International Spy Museum and has decades of experience running and participating in intelligence and special operations around the world. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative's new website, www.irregularwarfare.org, to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! What are the origins of America’s longstanding policy of strategic ambiguity regarding Taiwan? How effective has that strategy been and, more urgently, how effective is it likely to remain? How has the military balance of power in the Taiwan Strait shifted, and what coercive methods does Beijing have at its disposal to subjugate Taipei? In this episode, our guests explore these questions and more in a discussion that considers the prospect of a cross-strait conflict between China and Taiwan and the asymmetric defensive capabilities that Taipei needs to stave off an invasion by the People’s Liberation Army. Michael Brown is a visiting scholar at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and previously served as the director of the Defense Innovation Unit. And Professor Larry Diamond is the William L. Clayton senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, where he cochairs the programs on China’s Global Sharp Power and on Taiwan in the Indo-Pacific Region. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Be sure to visit the Irregular Warfare Initiative's new website, www.irregularwarfare.org, to see all of the new articles, podcast episodes, and other content the IWI team is producing! As the character of warfare changes, emerging technologies are influencing the direction—and the magnitude—of that change. But what can past technological revolutions teach us as we prepare for the new challenges combat leaders will face on the modern battlefield? In what specific ways will new technologies, from artificial intelligence to advanced cyber capabilities, affect militaries’ ability to mass combat power? And at the strategic and policy levels, what must leaders do to prepare forces for future, large-scale combat operations? Ben Jebb and Adam Darnley-Stuart are joined on this episode by two guests who help explore these important questions. Lieutenant General Xavier T. Brunson is the commanding general of the US Army’s I Corps who has led US soldiers in multiple theaters around the globe. And Mick Ryan is a retired Australian Army major general who commanded soldiers at the platoon, regiment, task force, and brigade levels and is the author of the book War Transformed: The Future of Twenty-First Century Great Power Competition and Conflict. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Subscribe to the IWI monthly newsletter by going to www.irregularwarfare.org! How does the National Defense Strategy distill guidance from the National Security Strategy down to the Pentagon? How does the US military operationalize the document’s guidance in practice? And how does the National Defense Strategy specifically shape the way the US armed services implement irregular warfare? We’re joined by two expert guests to address these questions and more. Dr. Kori Schake is a senior fellow and the director of foreign and defense policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute and has held senior positions across the US defense, national security, and foreign policy enterprise. Retired Brigadier General Chris Burns is a senior advisor to the Irregular Warfare Center who led US special operations units at multiple echelons during his thirty-six-year Army career. They share their insights in a fascinating discussion on this episode of the Irregular Warfare Podcast. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Subscribe to the IWI monthly newsletter by going to www.irregularwarfare.org! This episode explores the concepts of zero trust and persistence theory within the cyber domain and features a conversation with two guests: Mr. David McKeown serves as the acting DoD principal deputy chief information officer and Dr. Richard J. Harknett is professor and director of the School of Public and International Affairs and chair of the Center for Cyber Strategy and Policy at the University of Cincinnati. In the discussion, they first define these two concepts—zero trust and persistance theory—before highlighting how they complement each other in practice. They continue by explaining the importance of seizing and maintaining the initiative in the cyber domain and how it would be more helpful to shift to a mindset of persistent campaigns and away from the idea of isolated cyberattacks. They conclude with thoughts on the implications for future cyber strategies. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Subscribe to the IWI monthly newsletter by going to www.irregularwarfare.org! Somalia’s security landscape is complex, making the challenge of understanding the terrorist group al-Shabaab especially challenging. The group uses intricate methods to maintain its foothold in East Africa, complicating both international and indigenous efforts to counter the threat it poses. To examine al-Shabaab and the critical contextual influences unique to Somalia, this episode features a conversation with two guests. Mary Harper is the Africa editor at BBC World Service News and author of Everything You Have Told Me is True: The Many Faces of Al Shabaab. Sam Wilkins is an Army Special Forces officer with operational experience in Somalia. Together, their insights and expert perspectives help to paint a picture of the Somalia-based terrorist organization and its effects on security and stability in the region. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Subscribe to the IWI monthly newsletter by going to www.irregularwarfare.org! What lessons can be found in India’s experience with counterinsurgency? Are there elements of India’s philosophical approach to counterinsurgency and its tactical innovations that can be applied by the United States in expeditionary counterinsurgency operations? In this episode, we’re joined by Sumit Ganguly, distinguished professor of political science at Indiana University Bloomington, and Sajid Shapoo, a decorated senior Indian Police Service officer and PhD candidate at Princeton University. Together, they tackle these questions and more as they assess the Indian approach to counterinsurgency. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Subscribe to the IWI monthly newsletter by going to www.irregularwarfare.org! What are America’s interests in the Arctic? Are the traditional institutions that have governed interstate relations in the region equipped for an emerging period of intensified competition in the High North? And how is climate change affecting the strategic calculus of the United States, Russia, China, and other states? This episode tackles these questions and more as our guests—the Honorable Sherri Goodman, former deputy under secretary of defense for environmental security and current senior fellow at the Wilson Center, and Brigadier General Shawn Satterfield, commanding general of Special Operations Command North—join the podcast to examine the evolving relationship between climate change, Arctic security, and geopolitical competition. Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0