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Call Me Back - with Dan Senor

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Political and geopolitical analysis from the world's top experts, hosted by Dan Senor.

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Political and geopolitical analysis from the world's top experts, hosted by Dan Senor.

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English


Episodes
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Is Israel headed for a two-front war? - with Nadav Eyal

6/20/2024
First, a housekeeping note: many of you filled out the survey we published in our previous episode, and we are very grateful for that. If you haven't filled out this 2-minute survey we would greatly appreciate it if you took 2 minutes to fill it out. It is extremely helpful to us in thinking through ways to improve the podcast and understand our audience. Please follow this link to the survey: https://forms.gle/nZh8ZRA5YjJxmdEW6 As for today's episode - I've been in Israel for the past couple of days, for my 4th visit here since 10/07. Something that has struck me in my conversations with Israelis is the degree to which a war with Hezbollah is not discussed in terms of IF, but rather in terms of WHEN. And as for the WHEN, some are suggesting quite soon. In fact, Defense Minister Gallant said that the goal should be that for those Israelis evacuated from the North, they should be back in their evacuated communities and homes in time for the next school year. This would put to the test the IDF’s capacity to fight a multi front war. In other words - while the IDF is getting closer to the point of defeating Hamas in Gaza - it might also be at the early stages of a war with Hezbollah. To help us understand what’s going on here, our guest today is NADAV EYAL, who returns to the podcast. I sat down with him today in Tel Aviv. He is a columnist for Yediot. Eyal has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. Nadav's latest column, which we discussed in this episode: https://tinyurl.com/msk43n53

Duration:01:10:18

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Divisions in Israeli society - with Dr. Micah Goodman

6/17/2024
First, a housekeeping note: Over the past eight months the audience for this podcast has grown in ways we could never have imagined, but there is no real way for us to know who is listening - age group, ideological leanings, the country you are living in, etc. These are all very helpful data points for us to improve the podcast and understand our audience. So, please fill out this 2 minute survey: https://forms.gle/nZh8ZRA5YjJxmdEW6 And one other item we wanted to bring to your attention. We are repeatedly reminded how the NYPD has continued to bravely protect our community— most recently 10 days ago at the Nova Music Festival exhibition where a mob of antisemitic rioters attempted to intimidate Jewish New Yorkers, and just before that when the NYPD helped ensure a smooth Israel Day Parade here in New York in which over 100,000 people participated. To express our thanks for helping to keep our Jewish community and all New Yorkers safe, The Paul E. Singer Foundation is matching donations up to $200,000 made to the New York City Police Foundation. Donations must be made Monday, June 24, 2024. Join us to meet and exceed this goal. If interested in donating, you can do it here: https://secure.anedot.com/nycpolicefoundation/thepesfoundation As for today's episode, as we discussed at length in our last episode -- "Haviv Unplugged!" -- the issue of a military service exemption for Haredi Jews (ultra-Orthodox Jews) is coming to a head right now, as Israel is at war. Or maybe it's coming to a head with such ferocity precisely because Israel is at war, and it's raising all sorts of questions about whether Israel has the manpower to fight a continued war in Gaza and possibly other fronts that could open up. It does seem like Israel is in an entirely new military environment, across multiple fronts. Also, are some parts of the Israeli population paying a disproportionately high price? These are questions that are being considered right now by Israel's government. These are questions that are weighing especially heavy on society after 12 soldiers over the past few days. Dr. Micah Goodman is our guest today, to help us unpack all of this. Micah is on the speed-dial of a number of Israeli political leaders – from right to left, but especially on the center-left and the center-right. He is a polymath, a podcaster and one of Israel’s most influential public intellectuals, having written books ranging from biblical lessons for the modern age to Israel’s geopolitics. One book in particular, had an outsized impact in terms of its framing of the conundrum that Israel has been in with the Palestinians since 1967. That book is called "Catch-67: The Left, the Right, and the Legacy of the Six-Day War", Not only have all of his books been bestsellers in Israel, he essentially created a new genre; books that bring core texts of Jewish thought to a general, secular audience. In his new book – called "The Eighth Day", which Micah wrote in a four-month sprint after October 7th – Micah tries to understand the implications of the nation’s trauma and what it means for the other ‘day after’ (not the ‘day after’ in Gaza, but the ‘day after’ inside Israel). What does this moment mean for Israelis? How will 10/07 re-shape Israeli society…and its politics? Micah Goodman’s books: Catch-67 — https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/catch-67-micah-goodman/1128089735?ean=9780300248418 The Wondering Jew — https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-wondering-jew-micah-goodman/1136574622?ean=9780300252248

Duration:00:49:21

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Haviv Unplugged!

6/13/2024
Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/2s4x4j2h In recent days, there have been a lot of war-related developments that have taken place in Israel and outside of Israel. So it was good that we had the opportunity to catch up with Haviv Rettig Gur as Shavuot came to a close in Israel. In this episode, we wound up having a spirited conversation about: I.The mood in Israel days after after Operation Arnon, and also why the day after the successful resuce operation we saw Benny Gantz's long anticipated exit from the unity government; II. The ultra orthodox or 'Haredi' IDF exemption bill that passed in the Knesset; and III. Hamas's rejection (yet again) of Israel's ceasefire proposal.

Duration:00:48:57

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OPERATION ARNON - with Nadav Eyal

6/10/2024
Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/3pey4z3y We have just witnessed one of the most extraordinary 48-hour periods in Israel since October 7th, as we learned news of an extremely complex military, intelligence and hostage rescue operation. We are seeing — and many of us are experiencing — the impact that this development is having on Israeli society, and on the Jewish people worldwide. This operation has been renamed OPERATION ARNON, after Colonel Arnon Zamora, who was the chief inspector of the Israeli Police’s special commando Counterterrorism Unit. He was the only Israeli to have fallen in this operation. May Arnon's memory be a blessing. To learn more about Arnon's life, you can read here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hero-of-israel-thousands-pay-last-respects-to-officer-killed-in-hostage-rescue-op/ In this episode, NADAV EYAL provides a comprehensive picture and analysis of what actually happened in this operation. Nadav is a columnist for Yediot. He has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. To read Nadav's piece in Yediot: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/syo00lyxs0

Duration:01:09:23

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The Great Powers and the War in Gaza - with Walter Russell Mead

6/7/2024
Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/ytm9656f Over the past 8 months, we've focused most of our attention on Israel's perspective and the American perspective since October 7th. But what we wanted to do today is gradually zoom out from Israel and Gaza, to the perspective of other regional players in the Middle East, and finally examine this war from the perspective of the global powers, especially China and Russia. Has the Israel-Hamas war advanced their interests or reversed them? Our guest today is Walter Russell Mead. He is at the Hudson Institute, he is the Global View Columnist at The Wall Street Journal. He was previously the Henry Kissinger fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He also has a terrific podcast at Tablet Magazine, called What Really Matters: https://www.tabletmag.com/podcasts/what-really-matters He is also a prolific author. His most recent book is -- The Arc of a Covenant: The United States, Israel, and the Fate of the Jewish People, which you order here -- shorturl.at/bdhpz

Duration:01:00:22

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The last Israeli to negotiate with the Palestinians - with Tzipi Livni (Part 2)

6/6/2024
Share on Twitter/X: https://tinyurl.com/nvmznb7m Tzipi Livni has served as a minister of eight different cabinet ministries under three prime ministers: Ariel Sharon, Ehud Olmert, and Benjamin Netanyahu. Her positions have included Justice Minister, Foreign Minister and Vice-Prime Minister. She has also been the official leader of the opposition. As foreign minister, Tzipi Livni led negotiations with the Palestinian Authority, she was a key government figure during Israel’s disengagement from Gaza and during Hamas’s subsequent takeover of Gaza. She was foreign minister during Israel’s Second Lebanon War and during Israel’s operation to take out Syria’s nuclear reactor. She began her service as a member of the Likud Party, and then the Kadima Party, and later the Hatnua Party and Zionist Union. Earlier in her career, Tzipi served in the Mossad (including in the elite unit famous for being responsible for the assassinations following the Munich massacre). No major Israeli political figure has had more recent experience trying to negotiate a two-state solution than Tzipi Livni.

Duration:00:32:23

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The last Israeli to negotiate with the Palestinians - with Tzipi Livni (Part 1)

6/5/2024
Share on Twitter/X: https://tinyurl.com/3jzjamfh Tzipi Livni has served as a minister of eight different cabinet ministries under three prime ministers: Ariel Sharon, Ehud Olmert, and Benjamin Netanyahu. Her positions have included Justice Minister, Foreign Minister and Vice-Prime Minister. She has also been the official leader of the opposition. As foreign minister, Tzipi Livni led negotiations with the Palestinian Authority, she was a key government figure during Israel’s disengagement from Gaza and during Hamas’s subsequent takeover of Gaza. She was foreign minister during Israel’s Second Lebanon War and during Israel’s operation to take out Syria’s nuclear reactor. She began her service as a member of the Likud Party, and then the Kadima Party, and later the Hatnua Party and Zionist Union. Earlier in her career, Tzipi served in the Mossad (including in the elite unit famous for being responsible for the assassinations following the Munich massacre). No major Israeli political figure has had more recent experience trying to negotiate a two-state solution than Tzipi Livni. Tzipi Livni on X: https://x.com/Tzipi_Livni

Duration:00:47:52

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A proposal to end the war? — with Haviv Rettig Gur

6/3/2024
Share on Twitter/X: https://tinyurl.com/3h7ryskc Today during one of our regular check-ins with Haviv Rettig Gur, we had some big questions: I) How is the war actually going? What do we know? II) Following President Biden’s announcement last Friday, was the proposal he revealed the official proposal that Israel is offering Hamas? And if it is, why did the war cabinet approve it? III) As for Egypt, do we now have a clearer picture of why Egypt was so hysterically opposed to an IDF operation in Rafah? IV) And, finally, Prime Minister Netanyahu has been invited to address the U.S. Congress? What’s likely to happen when he comes to the nation’s capital?

Duration:01:03:37

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What we know about captivity in Gaza - with Glenn Cohen

5/31/2024
Share on Twitter/X: https://tinyurl.com/3rnj5dz7 Since October 7, there has been a debate inside Israel about what cost Israelis should pay as a society to get their fellow citizens home, or, what the cost would be to Israeli society if their fellow citizens do not return home. One perspective we have not heard is that of a professional who led the debriefing of every single living hostage upon return, including children, women and the elderly; those who were held in underground tunnels and those who were held in apartments above ground by Gazan families; those who were held captive alone and those who were held captive with other Israelis; those who were medically treated, and those who were tortured. Glenn Cohen is that person. He made aliyah to Israel from the United States as a young man and joined the IDF. He had an impressive and improbable career in the military (which we chronicle in Chapter 12 of THE GENIUS OF ISRAEL - https://tinyurl.com/4hpxsx2x). Glenn was an air force pilot, a Mossad officer, a hostage negotiator, and a special forces psychologist. He served in the Mossad for 25 years, retiring as the Chief of Psychology with the equivalent rank of Colonel. During the current Israel-Hamas war, Glenn served for over 100 days in reserve duty as the head psychologist of a team that debriefed the hostages upon their return. To reach Glenn Cohen or learn more about his work, visit: https://www.glenn-cohen.com/ Rachel Goldberg Polin's speech that was featured in the episode, can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZX79M3k-L4 To learn more about Hersh Goldberg-Polin: https://m.facebook.com/BringHershHome OR IG: Bring.Hersh.Home

Duration:00:57:25

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Diplomatic Avalanche - with Nadav Eyal and Matt Waxman

5/24/2024
Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/7nwh3c8e Earlier this morning, the International Court of Justice ordered Israel to immediately halt its military operations in Rafah. This comes less than a week after the ICC announced that it is considering arrest warrants against Prime Minister Netanyahu and Defense Minister Gallant, and days after three European countries announced that they will formally recognize a Palestinian State (that doesn’t yet exist!) In this special episode, recorded just minutes after the ICJ announcement, we were joined by Nadav Eyal (journalist with Yediot in Israel) and by Matt Waxman (Columbia Law School professor and former national security legal official in the George W. Bush administration) to unpack each of these developments.

Duration:00:58:56

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Rafah, Egypt & the "Day After" - with Amos Harel

5/23/2024
Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/2prj3ea7 In recent days, we have had three persistent questions: One, how is it that – in just a matter of approximately 10 days – the IDF managed to move anywhere between 850,000 to a million Gazan Palestinians from Rafah to other areas of Gaza so Israel could conduct its operation against remaining Hamas battalions in Rafah? Weren’t we repeatedly told by the Biden administration that it was impossible? So, our first question is, how did this happen? And what does it tell us about other gaps between the Biden administration forecasts and that of Israel’s when it comes to war-fighting in Gaza? Our second question is about Egypt. Given what we have learned in recent days, why has Egypt escaped any real scrutiny or pressure over the past 7 months? Our third question is whether all the heat on the Israeli Government for a lack of a “day after” plan really about the pursuit of a “day after” plan, or is it about deflecting scrutiny from other failures? To help us answer these questions and others, we are joined by Amos Harel, who has been the military correspondent and defense analyst for Israel's Haaretz newspaper for 25 years. He is among the most well-sourced and thoughtful journalists and analysts covering Israeli security affairs inside Israel. Prior to his current position, Amos spent four years as night editor for the Haaretz Hebrew print edition, and from 1999-2005 he was the anchor on a weekly Army Radio program about defense issues. Along with frequent "Call Me Back" guest and Fauda co-creator Avi Issacharoff, Amos co-wrote a book about the Second Intifada, called "The Seventh War: How we won and why we lost the war with the Palestinians", which was published in 2004 and translated into several languages, including Arabic. Amos and Avi also co-wrote "34 Days: Israel, Hezbollah and the War in Lebanon", about the war of 2006, which was published in 2008.

Duration:00:46:53

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And then there was Gantz - with Haviv Rettig Gur

5/20/2024
Share Episode on Twitter: https://tinyurl.com/327et39r Haviv Rettig Gur returns for a regular check-in, in which we analyze the emerging political scenarios that might emerge from the moves being made by Yoav Gallant, Benny Gantz and Naftali Bennett. We also discuss the implications of the crash of the helicopter transporting Iran's president -- what does it mean for Israel and other stakeholders OUTSIDE Iran and what does it mean INSIDE Iran?

Duration:00:55:04

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Bonus Episode: Will the Middle East Be Unrecognizable? - with Jared Cohen

5/19/2024
Jared Cohen is Co-Head of the Office of Applied Innovation and President of Global Affairs at Goldman Sachs. He also serves on the Management Committee of the firm. Jared is also the most senior Goldman executive to visit Israel since October 7. But Jared did not just visit Israel – and meet with a range of senior Israeli political leaders and security officials – he also was in Ramallah, in the West Bank to meet Palestinian Authority officials and Jordan – just before Jordan participated in the extraordinary multi-national defense of Israel, despite tense relations between the Israeli and Jordanian governments. And since then, Jared has traveled extensively throughout the Persian Gulf States, where he has a long history of deep relationships. It was interesting to get a fresh take from Jared on this region in transition. Prior to joining Goldman, Jared was an executive at Alphabet, before which he was Google’s first Director of Ideas and Chief Advisor to Google’s then CEO and Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt. From 2006 to 2010, he served as a member of the Secretary of State’s Policy Planning Staff and as a close advisor to both Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton. Jared is a New York Times bestselling author of six books, including "One Hundred Days of Silence: America and the Rwanda Genocide," "Children of Jihad," "The New Digital Age: Transforming Nations, Business, and our Lives," which he co-authored with Eric Schmidt, and, most recently, "Life After Power: Seven Presidents and their Search for Purpose Beyond the White House," which you can order here: https://tinyurl.com/5xm8v7ft OR https://tinyurl.com/2ua6mzjd Paper discussed in this episode: "The rise of geopolitical swing states" -- https://www.goldmansachs.com/intelligence/pages/the-rise-of-geopolitical-swing-states.html

Duration:00:51:21

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SPECIAL EPISODE: Gallant Strikes (Again) - with Nadav Eyal

5/16/2024
Last night, Israel time, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant took the exceptional step of publicly declaring his view that the current war trajectory is leading to one of two scenarios in Gaza: Hamas rules Gaza OR the IDF rules Gaza - both, Gallant says, are catastrophic outcomes. Gallant set an ultimatum for Prime Minister Netanyahu by saying that he would oppose Israeli military rule in Gaza, signaling that this is his red line and he blamed Netanyahu for what Gallant believes is a lack of a post-war plan. In this special episode, we asked Nadav Eyal to: A. Analyze Gallant's dramatic speech. B. Discuss what this means for the war, and C. Where this could lead politically. NADAV EYAL is a columnist at Yediiot. Eyal is one of Israel’s leading journalists, and a winner of the Sokolov Prize, Israel’s most prestigious journalism award. Eyal has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. He received a master’s degree from the London School of Economics and a law degree from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Duration:00:39:36

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Israeli Independence - with Dr. Tal Becker

5/16/2024
HOUSEKEEPING NOTE: The first "Call Me Back" Live Event will take place on Monday June 3 at 6:00 pm at the Comedy Cellar in New York City. At the event -- which will ultimately be posted as an episode -- we will be talking to Michael Rapaport about the crisis of antisemitism in America and what it means for Israel and for American Jews. Partial proceeds for the event will go to Lev Echad ("One Heart"), an Israeli non-profit organization that has been doing indispensable work, especially since 10/07. To RSVP, please go to comedycellar.com, click the lineups button on the top left and select June 3. (There will also be an opportunity for audience questions and discussion following the formal conversation, and an extended smaller private event afterwards for those interested.) TODAY'S EPISODE: As Independence Day was winding down in Israel, I sat down for a conversation with Tal Becker in Jerusalem to discuss the deep uncertainty in Israeli society: we don’t know when or if the hostages will return home, we don’t when or if Hamas will be defeated, or even when or if the 100,000 displaced Israelis will return to their homes in the South and in the North. We don't know if a war with Hezbollah is next, and we certainly don’t know if and what could be a long term solution for the Palestinian conflict with Israel or Iran’s conflict with Israel. Dr. Tal Becker serves as a senior fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem and was the former Legal Adviser of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. He is a veteran member of successive Israeli peace negotiation teams and, most recently, represented Israel before the International Court of Justice and played an instrumental role in negotiating and drafting the historic peace and normalization agreements (the "Abraham Accords"). Dr. Becker earned his doctorate from Columbia University in New York City, and is the recipient of numerous scholarly awards, including the Rabin Peace Prize, and the Guggenheim Prize for best international law book for his book "Terrorism and the State".

Duration:01:01:20

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Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

5/12/2024
At 8:00 pm tonight in Israel, the siren will sound across Israel to mark the commencement of Israel’s Memorial Day, Yom HaZikaron (Memorial Day for the Fallen Soldiers and Victims of Terrorism). This is the day that Israelis, as a nation, honor the fallen from Israel’s military and those casualties from its wars and victims of terror attacks. Since last Memorial Day, 1594 Israelis have been killed. Out of those, 834 are civilians murdered in terror attacks, 822 of them since 10/07 (this is out of a total 4,070 who have been killed from terrorism since the Jewish State was founded). We will have more to say about Israel’s Memorial Day and its Independence Day in the days ahead. As it relates to the war Israel is fighting today, this morning I spoke with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about a number of issues, including the coming operation in Rafah, the necessity for continued IDF operations in other parts of Gaza that the IDF had previously cleared, what makes this war so different, whether the Prime Minister is thinking seriously about the ‘day after‘ in Gaza and the contours of a Day After Plan for Gaza, how the Prime Minister is approaching the hostage negotiations, and whether exile for Hamas’s leaders (including Sinwar) could be part of a final deal to get the hostages home. In this episode, passage read from “The Genius of Israel”: https://tinyurl.com/ytp43fx3 https://tinyurl.com/3sjkuczz

Duration:00:44:02

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Screams Before Silence - with Sheryl Sandberg

5/10/2024
Sheryl Sandberg is one of the most accomplished executives in the tech industry. After attending Harvard University for undergrad and for an MBA, Sheryl’s early career included stints at the World Bank and the U.S. Treasury Department in the Clinton Administration, where she served with then-Treasury Secretary Larry Summers. She then joined Google as VP of online sales and operations in 2001, before joining META as COO, where she worked from 2008 to 2022. Today both companies are among the top 10 market cap companies. Sheryl is also an accomplished author: she co-authored "Lean In: Women, Work and the Will to Lead (2013)"; and "Option B: Facing Adversity, Building Resilience, and Finding Joy" (with Adam Grant, 2017). But since 10/07, Sheryl has been focused on one cause – Israel and the Jewish people. Sheryl has been confronting: Rape Denialism. She has done this primarily through a documentary film she created called "Screams Before Silence", which you can watch on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAr9oGSXgak&t=1456s You can also learn more about the film here: https://www.screamsbeforesilence.com Sheryl has also raised awareness about this issue all over the world, from the UN to capitals throughout Europe. In this conversation, Sheryl and I discuss how Judaism and Israel had shaped or fit into her life before 10/07, how 10/07 changed her, and how she came to create this film and commit to this cause.

Duration:00:43:07

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The Rise and Fall of a Hostage Deal - with Nadav Eyal

5/8/2024
What exactly unfolded in Israel over the past 72 hours? Details are still emerging, but at one point it appeared that all sides may have been close to reaching a hostage/temporary ceasefire deal. Except that we now know that Israel had made major concessions in one deal, while Hamas was agreeing to an entirely different -- and new -- deal, so there wasn't actually any kind of agreement to speak of. All against the backdrop of the IDF commencing its operation in Rafah. And, what is Israel doing at the Rafah border with Egypt and what are the implications for Israel-Egypt relations? Our guest is NADAV EYAL, who is a columnist at Yediiot. Eyal is one of Israel’s leading journalists, and a winner of the Sokolov Prize, Israel’s most prestigious journalism award. Eyal has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. He received a master’s degree from the London School of Economics and a law degree from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Duration:00:48:58

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The Age of Grievance - with Frank Bruni

5/6/2024
Frank Bruni is a long time journalist, including more than 25 years with the New York Times. He is the author of four New York Times bestsellers. He is now also a full professor at Duke University, teaching at the school of public policy, while he continues to write his popular weekly newsletter and additional essays for the Times. Two of Frank’s recent books are relevant to what we are watching play out right now on America’s college campuses. Eight years ago, he published “Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be: An Antidote to the College Admissions Mania” -- https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/where-you-go-is-not-who-youll-be-frank-bruni/1119921235?ean=9781455532681&aug=1 And Frank’s most recent book, which was just published last week, is called “The Age of Grievance” -- https://tinyurl.com/3yj4c92s In our conversation and in his new book, Frank addresses the fact that Jews are being blamed for objecting to the 10/07 massacre of Jews. How did this happen? It didn’t come out of nowhere? How is it the college campuses have become the focus of this debate over here? "The Age of Grievance" addresses the shocking upside down debate that erupted over here following 10/07, which we discuss in our conversation. We also try to understand how some universities are getting it right and others are getting it so wrong. Frank is uniquely positioned to have insights – from his perspective at the Times, on the front lines as a professor at a top American university, and as a bestselling author of a new book about grievance.

Duration:00:46:53

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Israel's Sophie's Choice - with Haviv Rettig Gur

5/2/2024
There are two major decisions Israel is contending with right now: I) proceed with the military operation in Rafah; or II) pause the fighting, perhaps for an extended period of time, in service of a hostage deal. Of course a hostage deal would also most likely include the release of a large number of Palestinian prisoners from Israeli prisons. These decisions are coming to a head right now for Israel and for Hamas. All while Secretary of State Blinken is in the Middle East. All while Riyadh is working on some kind of defense pact with the U.S. and the possibility of normalization with Israel. And all against the backdrop of Hamas and Hezbollah issuing statements of solidarity with American college kids. Fortunately, we’ve got Haviv Rettig Gur back, as we resume our regular check-ins.

Duration:01:07:16