Start Making Sense with Jon Wiener

“A rally a day keeps the fascists away” – that’s what Jamie Raskin says. He’s the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and he talks about Trump’s “world historical grift,” and why we shouldn’t be pessimistic about defeating his efforts. Also: 20 minutes without Trump: 1925 is being celebrated this year as the centenary of The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzerald -- but we’re interested in some of the other books published that year. So we turn to Tom Lutz – his new book is titled “1925: A Literary Encyclopedia.” It’s 800 pages long, and only 7 are on “Gatsby." Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What obligations do colleges and universities have to protect students from antisemitism and Islamophobia? What obligations do they have to let students speak freely about issues they care about? David Cole just testified before Congress about that—he’s the former National Legal Director of the ACLU, and The Nation’s legal affairs correspondent. Also: Trump’s partnership in Washington with his biggest donor, Elon Musk, is coming to an end. The richest man in the world, who made the biggest campaign contribution in history, is going home the clear loser in this affair. Historian David Nasaw comments. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

After serving 18 years in the Senate, and losing last November, Sherrod Brown analyzes what it will take for Democrats to recover from the defeats of 2024, and comments on his own political future – he could run for senator or for governor in 2026. Also on this episode: Dahlia Lithwick explains three key court cases where Trump suffered major defeats, which, she argues, are likely to have an “exponential effect” on other judges. Meanwhile we are seeing a rising tide of activism in the streets. Dahlia writes about the law and the courts for Slate and hosts the ‘Amicus’ podcast. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Donald Trump is "the greatest threat to American universities since the Red Scare of the 1950s"—that’s what Princeton’s president Christopher Eisgruber said. Others say that what Trump is doing is worse. Beverly Gage comments – she wrote “G-Man,” the award-winning biography of J. Edgar Hoover. Also on this episode: In 1948, Alger Hiss, a prominent New Deal Democrat, was convicted of perjury for testifying that he had not been a Soviet spy. The conventional wisdom is that he was probably guilty. Now, Jeff Kisseloff says it’s not hard to show that Hiss was innocent; the hard part is figuring out who framed him. Jeff’s new book is “Rewriting Hisstory: A Fifty-Year Journey to Uncover the Truth About Alger Hiss.”

J D Vance said it most clearly: for the Trump people, “The universities are the enemy.” That’s why Trump is cutting billions of federal funding and making impossible demands that threaten dozens of universities. But universities have begun to resist. Michael Roth comments-- he's president of Wesleyan, and was the first university president to speak out against Trump’s attacks. Also: Trump is not the worst president when it comes to constitutional rights and civil liberties; Woodrow Wilson was worse. Adam Hochschild explains why – starting with jailing thousands of people whose only crime was speaking out against the president. Adam’s most recent book is 'American Midnight: The Great War, A Violent Peace, and Democracy's Forgotten Crisis.'

While Trump’s attacks on the universities have broadened, and while Columbia is submitting to his requirements, Harvard’s president has declared that Harvard will not comply with Trump’s demands in exchange for keeping its federal funding. David Cole comments - he recently stepped down as National Legal Director of the ACLU to return to teaching law at Georgetown. Also: Elon Musk’s obsession with rockets and robots sounds futuristic, but “few figures in public life are more shackled to the past” – that’s what Jill Lepore has found. His ideas at DOGE seem to come from his grandfather, a founder of the anti-democratic Technocracy movement of the 1930s. Jill Lepore teaches history and law at Harvard, and writes for The New Yorker.

Trump’s tariffs are not really about trade, they’re a form of blackmail – but the alternative is not a return to the free trade policies introduced by Clinton and Obama. Lori Wallach of the Rethink Trade program at the American Economic Liberties Project explains what kind of tariffs we need, combined with government support for reindustrialization. Also on this episode: A major lawsuit challenging Trump over his efforts to deport pro-Gaza campus activists has been brought by faculty members at their universities. Jameel Jaffer reports on the AAUP case; he's executive director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University and a former deputy legal director of the ACLU.

The Wisconsin Supreme Court election tested the political power of Musk’s money, and voters rejected his candidate. The results have huge implications for the midterms. John Nichols has our analysis. Also: A big victory in federal district court: Trump cannot shut down the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Rob Weissman of Public Citizen will explain.

Bernie Sanders and AOC are on their “fighting oligarchy” tour, and in Denver last weekend they had the biggest political event there since Obama in 2008. It was also the biggest rally of Bernie’s life--bigger than anything in his presidential campaigns. And the first big election of the year is underway in Wisconsin. John Nichols has our analysis. Also: Elie Mystal, The Nation’s Justice Correspondent, talks about popular laws that are ruining America – starting with our voter registration requirements. But despite the obstacles and disappointments, he argues that it’s always necessary to vote. His new book is Bad Laws.

A key source of opposition to authoritarian regimes in recent history has come from universities and colleges. Trump has been attacking the independence of American universities, demanding they submit to his requirements and using massive funding cuts as his weapon. David Cole, formerly National Legal Director of the ACLU, has our analysis. Also: Mahmoud Khalil is the Palestinian student activist at Columbia arrested and jailed by ICE. The Trump administration intends to revoke his status as a permanent resident—a green-card holder--and deport him -- they say, to protect Jewish students on campus. That’s clearly a violation of freedom of speech. But is deporting Palestinian student activists a good way to protect Jewish students? David Meyers comments--he teaches Jewish history at UCLA.

The Supreme Court ruled against Trump last week in the first test of his refusal to release money appropriated by Congress, and more than a dozen more similar cases are likely to come before the court –– probably including a challenge to his withholding hundreds of millions from research universities on the grounds that they have failed to protect Jewish students from antisemitism. But what if Trump defies court decisions that go against him? Erwin Chemerinsky comments –– he’s dean of the Law School at UC Berkeley. Also: The man in charge of Trump’s plan to deport ten million undocumented people is Stephen Miller, who has a “seething, visceral, unquenchable hatred” for immigrants –– that’s what Nation columnist David Klion says, as he examines a life that “defies any easy explanation.”

On this week's episode of Start Making Sense: The first challenge to Trump’s unconstitutional seizure of power is at the Supreme Court now: the lower courts’ order to release USAID funding appropriated by Congress. The suit was brought by Public Citizen; their co-president, Robert Weissman, will explain. Also: John Nichols with our protest update for the week. Topics include: includes town hall yelling; Tesla dealer showroom picketing; Ukraine support demonstrating; national park protesting, and Town Hall yelling.

House Progressive leader Ro Khanna says “economic empowerment” for the working class should become the Democrats’ “defining cause.” And he comments on this week’s battle in the House over the Republican budget. Also: Thomas Geoghegan argues that, to win back the working class, Democrats need to “promise something big – and keep it simple.” His suggestions: a bigger and better Social Security program, and an end to employers’ freedom to fire workers for any reason.

The first big election of 2025 will be in Wisconsin, which elects a new Supreme Court Justice on April 1. Elon Musk is spending hundreds of millions in that race. That’s both a threat, and an opportunity for Democrats. On this episode of Start Making Sense, John Nichols will comment. Also: How did we end up with Trump back in the White House? We got here in part because Republicans built a movement over several decades centered on what are called “the culture wars.” But there’s a long history behind the culture wars, going back at least a century to the Scopes Trial, in 1925, about teaching evolution. It’s still an issue today. Adam Hochschild is on the show to explain.

Trump has lost a series of major legal battles in the last week, where courts have ruled that key executive orders of his are unconstitutional. But what happens if Trump defies the courts? David Cole comments—he recently stepped down as national legal director of the ACLU to return to teaching law at Georgetown University. Also: “One of the most important lawsuits in the history of the United States” (The American Prospect): the suit brought by Public Citizen to stop Elon Musk’s attempted takeover of the Treasury Department’s payment system. Robert Weissman explains—he’s co-president of Public Citizen.

Understanding our power: “If you’re always consumed by the next outrage, you can’t look closely at the last one.” (Ezra Klein) Last week, Trump tried to stop payment of all federal grants and assistance. But people rose up in protest, and within a day Trump rescinded the entire effort. How did we do it? What does that tell us about him--and about our power? Rebecca Solnit comments – her new blog is “Meditations in an Emergency.” Also: Trump’s strategy of flooding the zone with executive actions is intended to paralyze the opposition. But there’s lots of grassroots mobilization underway right now, and one of the biggest organizers of that mobilization is Indivisible. Leah Greenberg will explain the group’s strategy and tactics -- and this week’s work assignments -- to get four Republicans to vote “No” on Trump’s four terrible nominees. Leah is one of the co-founders and co-executive directors of Indivisible.

Our attention is limited. That makes it valuable, Chis Hayes says– not just to us, but to those who’d like to exploit it. Chris’s new book is The Sirens’ Call: How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource; before he became host of “All in with Chris Hayes” on MSNBC, he was The Nation’s Washington Correspondent. Also: Your Minnesota Moment: officials in sanctuary cities and counties in Minnesota face threats from the Trump administration. Host Jon Wiener explains the threats to undocumented residents from Stephen Miller, and the response from Minnesota’s Attorney General Keith Ellison.

How Trump ‘won’: In 2024, 244 million Americans were eligible to vote. 31.5% voted for Trump, 30.6 % voted for Harris, 38% did not vote. Trump won the same share of the eligible voters as he did four years ago (32%), But Harris’s share of eligible voters fell by 3.5 points compared to Biden. Why did 7 million Democratic voters stay home? Harold Meyerson has our analysis—he’s editor-at-large of The American Prospect. Also: now that Trump is preparing to round up and deport undocumented residents, we want to thank them for everything they’ve done to make America good. It’s a sentiment they don’t hear nearly enough--especially the “unaccompanied minors,” who have “shown more bravery in their young lives than anyone in Trump’s administration could ever dream of.” Gustavo Arellano will explain – he’s a columnist for the LA Times whose father came to the US in the 1960s in the trunk of a Chevy.

As we prepare for Trump to take office next week, we're getting ready to challenge him and his people in the upcoming elections later this year. But before that, we have an important election in the next few weeks: the Democratic National Committee will elect a new chair on February 1 to prepare for the battles and the campaigns to come. For our analysis we turn to John Nichols. Also: Trump promises to deport millions of undocumented residents, while Republicans in Congress threaten a nationwide abortion ban. Meanwhile parts of the mainstream media are caving in to Trump. How can individuals help at this point? Katha Pollit has some suggestions about groups that deserve support.

On this episode of Start Making Sense: Trump’s ‘dictatorship on day one’ will feature executive orders to deport undocumented residents. Ahilan Arulanantham, co-director of the Center for Immigration Law & Policy at UCLA Law School, will explain the legal strategy to be deployed by the sanctuary states and cities, Also: Not everything is about Donald Trump. The Geneva Freeport, for example – where it doesn’t matter who is president of the US. The Freeport is a place where the world’s richest people hide art, jewelry, and other wealth from tax officials, creditors, and sometimes spouses. Atossa Araxia Abrahamian has our analysis--her new book is “The Hidden Globe: How Wealth Hacks the World.”