Finding the Throughline with Kate Hanley

My guest this week is Debbie Urbanski, whose writing focuses on the intersections of horror, fantasy, science fiction, memoir, and often the planet. Her debut novel, “Afterworld,” narrates the last days of the last human on Earth's life, as told by an AI. It was named a best book of the year by the San Francisco Chronicle and the Los Angeles Times. Her newest book is “Portal Mania”, a collection of short stories that use a combination of sci-fi, fantasy, horror, and realism to ask, If you could go anywhere, where would you go? And what happens to the people you leave behind?We covered:- The literary journal acceptance that made Debbie feel like, “I think I could do this [whole writing thing]”- Figuring out what to do after you meet your writing goals- How Instagram has been a useful tool for building a community of writers- Figuring out which social media platforms are helpful for you- How studying poetry makes writing novels harder–and marketing easier- The business she and her husband run that provides steady income- What she’s learning about writing from Alfred Hitchcock- The daily schedule she tries to stick to- The genres she’s reading for inspiration- The standing desk, stacks of print outs, and nap strategy she uses to get her writing doneFollow Debbie on Instagram and/or Substack @debbieurbanskiFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the final installment of my interview with Beth Macy, award-winning and New York Times bestselling author of “Factory Man,” “Dopesick,” and her newest book, “Paper Girl,” which uses a blend of memoir and reporting to examine the rural-urban divide through the lens of her hometown of Urbana, Ohio.Beth was the first in her family to go to college, an event that drastically changed and maybe even saved her life. She's gone on to become a Guggenheim fellow and a Nieman fellow for journalism at Harvard.In today’s episode we find out what Beth knows at this moment about where her personal throughline is leading her next. And I ask her my fast final five questions about what she's reading, watching, listening to, and fantasizing about eating.We cover:- Why she’s feeling called to activism- How she patched things up with her brother, who’s on the other end of the political divide- Robert Guy, the Kentucky writer whom Beth considers her “Appalachian sensei”- The Netflix show “about England before it was England” her hairdresser told her about that she loved- Palmyra, her younger son’s band that’s touring–keep an eye out!Connect with Beth on Bluesky and/or Instagram @bethmacy.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the second part of my interview with award-winning journalist Beth Macy, author of the brand new book “Paper Girl: A Memoir of Home and Family in a Fractured America” about how politics has divided her hometown of Urbana, Ohio and even her own family. It’s a hard, heart-stirring read for anyone who wonders, “How did we get here? And how can we come back together.”Beth is also the author of “Dopesick” about the about the opioid crisis–which was also turned into an Emmy-award winning Hulu series–and “Factory Man” about how the effects of globalization have taken a toll on small rural communities.In this episode, we get into some of the thornier questions about writing, especially writing about polarizing topics–including family.We cover:- Why she makes it a point to include humor even in the darkest stories she tells (like babies being born addicted to opiates)- Keeping her mom’s spirit alive by writing about her in “Paper Girl”- How interviewing her ex-boyfriend for “Paper Girl” flew right past awkward and into threatening–and how she dealt with it- What she does to get through those “what do I do now??” moments- How her husband helped her find the opening scene to “Dopesick”- Her recently acquired skill of consulting “future Beth” when anxiety starts creeping in- Her best interviewing question that she got from Denzel Washingon- The one rule of newspaper reporting she thinks is total B.S.--and how she got around it without breaking it, directly, when she was on staff at the Roanoke TimesConnect with Beth on Bluesky and/or Instagram @bethmacy.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is Beth Macy, the award-winning author of three New York Times bestselling books that examine rural communities left behind by corporate greed and political indifference.Beth's first book, “Factory Man”, explored the aftermath of globalization on rural communities and won a J. Anthony Lucas Prize. “Dopesick,” her investigation of the opioid crisis, won an LA Times Book Prize and was described as “a masterwork of narrative nonfiction” by the New York Times. (It was also made into a Peabody- and Emmy-award winning Hulu series starring Michael Keaton.)Her newest book, “Paper Girl,” has just been released and is a combination of memoir and reported analysis of the rural-urban divide told through the lenses of backward mobility, political polarization, and the decimation of local news. Beth lives in Roanoke, Virginia.We covered:- How politics divided her family, and the skills she used to write a book about it- How a Pell grant helped Beth out of poverty, into college, and ultimately into a career in journalism- Publishing her first book at age fifty- Why writing books is easier than writing for a newspaper- Her telltale signs for when she’s stumbled on a good story- Getting through the big-city gatekeepers to tell stories of small towns- Why the collapse of local news and public education are playing such a huge role in making us so polarized- How policy changes shape our everyday reality- Using personal deadlines as an “anxiety-management tool”- How clustering tasks–such as reporting, interviewing, writing, and editing helps give structure to a long-term deadlineConnect with Beth on Bluesky and/or Instagram @bethmacy.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Aqua Tru. Visit aquatru.com and use code KATE to save 20% off a great countertop reverse osmosis water filter that I have been using and loving for years now. Comes with a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the final part of my interview with maritime history author Eric Jay Dolin, we get a tantalizing look at his next book, which he's working on now, about a shipwreck in the Pacific that involves a clash of East and West.We also covered:- Why his kids hate going to museums with him- Using a desire to travel as motivation for selling more books- The PBS show Eric considers comfort viewing- Why Friday is the perfect day- The bachelor meal he makes whenever his wife is out of townVisit Eric at ⁠ericjaydolin.com⁠.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Aqua Tru. Visit aquatru.com and use code KATE to save 20% off a great countertop reverse osmosis water filter that I have been using and loving for years now. Comes with a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the second part of my conversation with Eric Jay Dolin, (author of "Left for Dead," a true story about a captain of a sealing ship who was marooned on the Falkland Islands for 18 months in the early 1800s), we talk about the squishier side of writing, including dealing with your inner critic, getting through the parts of sharing your work that you'd really rather avoid, and managing your own expectations for how many copies your book will sell while also doing what you can to sell as many as possible.We talked about:- Getting geared up for giving talks as an introvert who grew up painfully shy (and the speaking tip that helps)- The appeal of writing a book that will still be relevant in 30, 40, or more years- How being in his 60s has affected his writing schedule, and his stress levels- How being a writer can put you out of step with your friends once they start to hit retirement age, and you are still plugging along- Taking aim at the belief that if you work hard, everything will work out- The mystery and serendipity that impact how well your book sells- The difference between wanting your book to sell well and expecting it toVisit Eric at ⁠ericjaydolin.com⁠.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Aqua Tru. Visit aquatru.com and use code KATE to save 20% off a great countertop reverse osmosis water filter that I have been using and loving for years now. Comes with a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Calling all lovers of true tales about the sea! This week I'm talking with Eric J. Dolin, bestselling author of numerous books that explore some aspect of American history, generally as it relates to the sea. His latest book is "Left for Dead: Shipwreck, Treachery, and Survival at the Edge of the World." Eric has a really interesting through line that started with him studying to be a marine biologist, then morphed into studying environmental policy, and includes a big list of cool, interesting jobs, including curatorial assistant in the mollusk department at Harvard's Museum of Comparative Zoology.We covered:- Eric's winding path to writing, which started with wanting to be Jacques Costeau as a kid, wended through getting three degrees in marine biology, and ended with him working in government jobs (managing a fishery, for example) while saving up to make the leap to writing full-time- How winning awards can keep you going, even when you're not selling as many books as you'd like- HOT TIP: Eric's new book, "Left for Dead," would make a great gift for anyone in your life who lives a good maritime yarn (like, say, my Dad)- How "people are overly impressed with writers", and that recognition can also keep you going- The skills he developed as a student that help him write books- How researching his current book generally leads to the idea for his next book- The secret cove in Marblehead, Mass. where Eric gets his reading done during the summer- How reading books from the 1800s and early 1900s (as part of his research) changes his languageFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Aqua Tru. Visit aquatru.com and use code KATE to save 20% off a great countertop reverse osmosis water filter that I have been using and loving for years now. Comes with a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the final installment of my interview with Alma Katsu, award winning author of nine novels, including the historical horror novels,"The Hunger," "The Deep," and "The Fervor," and two spy novels that draw on her long career in intelligence, "Red Widow" and "Red London." Alma's newest book is the contemporary horror novel "Fiend," which tells the story of an ultra rich family who summoned dark forces to protect and grow their wealth.We covered:- How she harvests book ideas from the headlines- The writer’s newsletter she recommends every writer subscribe to- Why she celebrates every little success as if it’s her last- Why she’s switching publishers for her next spy novel- The career goal that would scare her as much as it would delight her- An inside look at the story of hers that’s been optioned by AMC–fingers crossed it actually gets made it sounds AMAZING- The streaming show that surprised her, it was so good- The meal she craves that she can no longer get since she moved out of DCConnect with Alma on Substack: https://substack.com/@almakatsuFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to part two of my interview with Alma Katsu, award-winning and New York Times bestselling author of nine novels, including the historical horror novels, "The Hunger," "The Deep," and "The Fervor," and the spy novels, "Red Widow" and "Red London." Alma's newest book is "Fiend," which examines our fascination with the ultra rich in a setting that mixes dark fantasy with horror.In this episode, we get into the nitty gritty of the ideas, thought processes, and beliefs that fuel her work, including:- How she makes the world of her novels richly detailed and her characters multi-faceted- How writing for the POTUS helped her deal with the novel editing process- The part of the publishing process that always makes her “depressed for a day”- The fascinating reason why she’s squeamish about being on social media- Thoughts on how being in her mid-60s impacts her career- How’s she’s encountered–and handled–sexism- Why Hollywood is interested in so many of her novels–and the differences between the movie business and the book businessConnect with Alma on Substack: https://substack.com/@almakatsuFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is Alma Katsu, the award-winning, critically acclaimed, New York Times bestselling author of nine novels. Alma has written two spy novels, "Red Widow" and "Red London," inspired by her 35-year career working in intelligence. She also writes novels that combine historical fiction with supernatural and horror elements."The Hunger" was a re-imagining of the story of the Donner Party and named one of NPR's 100 favorite horror stories. Her first book, "The Taker," was named one of the top 10 debut novels of 2011 by Booklist. And her latest novel, brand new, hot off the presses, is "Fiend," which examines our fascination with the ultra wealthy through a lens that combines dark fantasy and horror. Think Succession meets Angel Heart, if you're old enough to remember that movie.Alma's books have been translated into over a dozen languages and several are in various stages of film and television development. She's also a contributor to the Washington Post book world where she reviews thrillers.We covered:- How she came to work in US intelligence for 35 years, despite having early ambitions of being a writer- Why she writes so many different genres (spy thrillers, horror, speculative fiction)- An inside peek at just an absolutely fascinating government career- The illness that got her writing again- The challenges of building a readership- Why she thinks writing a novel that’s inspired by the news is more persuasive than writing an article- How her background in intelligence helps her come up with ideas for her novels- Unlearning old habits of driving herself too hard- Recommitting to exercise so she has stamina for book toursConnect with Alma on Substack: https://substack.com/@almakatsuFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Aqua Tru. Visit aquatru.com and use code KATE to save 20% off a great countertop reverse osmosis water filter that I have been using and loving for years now. Comes with a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this final installment of my interview with Dolan Perkins Valdez, the New York Times bestselling author of “Wench,” “Bomb,” “Take My Hand,” and most recently, Happyland, we get a peek at where her personal throughline is leading her next and hear her answers to my fast final five questions about what she’s currently reading, listening to, and dreaming of eating.We covered:The visual artists who are currently inspiring her, some living, some deadHer favorite historical fiction authorsThe AMAZING sounding historical fiction writers conference that cemented her path as a historical fiction authorHow she’s re-thinking how she spends her time now that her older daughter is going off to collegeThe romance novel she stayed up too late reading and the Netflix series about high school girls she watched with her daughterThe music she listens to when her energy flagsConnect with Dolen on Instagram @dolenperkinsvaldezFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dolan Perkins Valdez, multiple award-winning author of “Wench,” “Bomb,” and “Take My Hand.” Her newest book, “Happyland,” is inspired by the true story of a secret community of formerly enslaved people in Appalachia.In this episode, we get into the nitty gritty of the ideas, thought processes, and beliefs that fuel her work, including:The part of writing a novel that can make her feel like “the book is taking years off my life”The surprising number of drafts it takes to get to a publishable manuscriptHow to elicit feedback that is actually helpful from early readersIdentifying your “good readers”The research habit that can bite her in the buttThe part of the writing process where her writerly demons tend to pop up the mostBuilding your day around when your brain is at its bestWhy she writes every book as if it’s her lastWhy she views all writing as politicalWriting what’s in your heart, not what you think will sellThe question she asks herself when she’s writing things that scare herConnect with Dolen on Instagram @dolenperkinsvaldezFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is Dolan Perkins-Valdez, the New York Times bestselling author of the novels “Wench,” “Bomb,” “Take My Hand,” and most recently, “Happyland.” Her books are all inspired by fascinating facets of American history that are in danger of being forgotten. They have earned awards from the NAACP, the Black Caucus of the American Library Association and the American Bar Association. And they've been named best books of the year by Goodreads users and Amazon editors. Dolan is a three-time nominee for a United States Artists Fellowship and an associate professor in the literature department at American University.We covered:Why she goes to the special archives in the library in any town she visitsWhy emails from readers are the best giftHow she recovers from book tourWhat teaching offers her (beyond benefits and a 401K)Her specific writing processThe handicraft that makes her “most at peace”Her pre-writing morning routineHow she measures her writing process (hint: it’s not word count)Connect with Dolen on Instagram @dolenperkinsvaldezFor full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Aqua Tru. Visit aquatru.com and use code KATE to save 20% off a great countertop reverse osmosis water filter that I have been using and loving for years now. Comes with a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the final installment of my interview with Ann Tashi Slater, author of the new book, “Traveling in Bardo, the Art of Living in an Impermanent World.”- How staying attuned to the seasons inspires her (and the Japanese word for an aspect of summer I had never heard before but reminds me of my favorite place to spend a summer morning, AKA my porch)- The two books (and their authors) that have shaped her writing aspirations- An amazing metaphor for creativity that will comfort anyone who worries that at some point they’ll run out of ideas- Moving into a different relationship with change and impermanence- Thinking about how to fulfill a desire to spend more time off the grid- The songs that help her stop worrying and just be happy for a little whileConnect with Ann @AnnTashiSlater on Instagram, Facebook, Blue Sky, and LinkedIn, or at anntoshislater.com.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to part two of my interview with Ann Tashi Slater, author of the new book, “Traveling in Bardo: The Art of Living in an Impermanent World.” Bardo is a Buddhist concept that describes a transitional state, such as between death and rebirth, but also about being alive and in between being born and dying. In Traveling in Bardo, Anne shares how we can apply Buddhist teachings on acceptance, interdependence, and impermanence to our ever-changing lives.In today's episode, I'm asking Anne about the inner stuff that goes into writing, including:- The Spanish movie she’s been obsessed with since she was a kid and that inspired a recent essay for Narrative Magazine- How writing and reading are so different from talking and listening, even though they’re both conversations between two people- How she, an extremely private person, gradually acclimated to sharing and promoting her work, and how this process reminds her of her dog- How she quiets the inner critic- Why she never meets anyone for lunch- The ways her work practices have–and mostly, have not–changed since her kids have left the nest and her schedule is her own- The things that motivated her to build the habit of writing everydayConnect with Ann @AnnTashiSlater on Instagram, Facebook, Blue Sky, and LinkedIn, or at anntoshislater.com.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is Ann Tashi Slater, who for decades has written about her Tibetan American heritage and about Buddhism in Western society for the New Yorker, the Paris Review, the New York Times, and the Washington Post, among other outlets. Her brand new book, “Traveling in Bardo:The Art of Living in an Impermanent World,” helps us find meaning, happiness, and hope in an impermanent world. Ann is also a contributing editor at Tricycle, the Buddhist review, and her work has been included in the best American essays. She is joining us today from her home in Tokyo.We covered:- Reconnecting with her Tibetan and Buddhist heritage after growing up in the States- Using the things you’re obsessed with as fodder for writing- Why there are so many empty houses in Tokyo- How having kids helped become more productive, much to her surprise- How her writing practice is like “Top Chef”- The simple practice that helps her get ready to writeConnect with Ann @AnnTashiSlater on Instagram, Facebook, Blue Sky, and LinkedIn, or at anntoshislater.com.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the final installment of my interview with Nancy Johnson, author of “People of Means,” which was one of People magazine's most anticipated books of 2025, and “The Kindest Lie”, which was a book of the month club and Target book club selection.In today’s episode, I felt like we were getting a tour through Nancy’s vision board–as well as the things she’s doing to help make those visions a reality.- Why she’s started planning a trip to Martha’s Vineyard next summer- The first annual Black Book Bash in Jacksonville, Florida, happening in October (mark your calendars)- Considering a pivot from fiction to nonfiction, and how she’s preparing for that shift- The writing goal that’s still on her vision board- The HBO show she recently stayed up too late watching because it was so good- Her go-to café order- The two songs that get her energized- The meal her Aunt Mary used to make that she can still taste todayConnect with Nancy on Instagram @nancyjauthor or Facebook at Nancy Johnson Author.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to part two of my interview with Nancy Johnson, author of “People of Means,” a story of class, culture, mothers and daughters, and the fight for racial equality in the not so distant American past. Nancy's first book, The Kindest Lie, was a Book of the Month Club selection and a Target book club pick.This episode gets into some real emotional terrain, including:- Her love-hate relationship with the actual writing process- Her very least favorite part of the publishing process, and how she deals with that discomfort- The responsibility she feels as a Black author to represent Black people in a “honest, caring way”, and how that responsibility can turbo charge her inner critic- The advice author Britt Bennett gave her about how to avoid writing stereotypes- Why she stopped reading her Goodreads and Amazon reviews–and why she makes it a point to ask the readers she speaks to in person what didn’t work for them- The ninja trick she developed to help her not take negative customer reviews too much to heart- How her past struggles have shaped her faith that her journey is unfolding in the exact right way at the exact right time- Why right now is the best time to be telling your storiesConnect with Nancy on Instagram @nancyjauthor or Facebook at Nancy Johnson Author.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is Nancy Johnson, whose newest novel, “People of Means,” is a propulsive story of race, class, and resistance in 1960s Nashville and 1992 Chicago. It was also one of People Magazine's most anticipated books of 2025. Nancy's debut novel, “The Kindest Lie,” was a Target book club pick and a New York Times editor's choice.A native of Chicago's South Side, Nancy has worked for more than a decade as an award-winning television journalist at CBS and ABC affiliates nationwide. Nancy lives in downtown Chicago where she's a director of brand journalism and storytelling for a large healthcare nonprofit.We covered:- Why she always makes it clear how her characters make their money- How she manages a full-time “real” job and a full-time writing career- The writing advice acclaimed mystery writer Dennis Lehane gave her that she chose not to follow- The tools she uses to get geared up to do her creative writing- How it took her six years to write her first book, two years to find an agent, and only two weeks to get a publishing deal- The things that kept her up at night and that inspired the subject matter of her novels- How her friendships keep her goingConnect with Nancy on Instagram @nancyjauthor or Facebook at Nancy Johnson Author.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week’s sponsor, Air Doctor Pro. Visit airdoctorpro.com and use code KATE to save 30% off an amazing indoor air filter *and* receive a free three-year warranty (an $84 value). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices