For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Are you one of those people that says “I’ll rest when I’m dead?” We can relate. As busy people–partners, parents, career drivers, caretakers and a host of other hats we wear, rest seems like an elusive and sometimes impossible task–especially during the holidays. To kick off our new series, For the Love of Peace, we’re here to tell you–you need and deserve rest. And lest you think rest is just getting 8 hours of sleep at night (wouldn’t we all love that), it’s more. We need emotional, creative, physical and mental rest, just to name a few. The stats are real; when we don’t rest we have increased cortisol levels, which then add to inflammation, which then add to every type of metabolic disorder that’s out there–from high blood pressure to cancer, to stroke, diabetes and more. It’s obviously important to figure out how to fix this rest deficit–but how? There is already a shortage of time for our overloaded to-do lists, not to mention being there for family, friends, work and exercise (if we even have time to fit that in). Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith has spent her career as an internal medicine physician, looking at the ways different kinds of rest are the little levers we can pull that renew our bodies, brains and souls. And good news–some of them only take 5 minutes to fit into our lives. When we put these rest practices into our lives, we avoid burnout, health issues and depression. Before you get to the end of seeing your own value to take care of yourself, consider Dr. Saundra’s advice and begin to respect the place that rest has in your life. By allowing it to sustain you, you’ll experience other areas of life much more joyfully.You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When we put all of our buckets into sleep, we're in essence canceling out all of the other things I just mentioned because you can't get creative rest with your eyes closed in the bed, and you can't get emotional rest in the bed with your eyes closed. There are certain types of rest that you cannot hope to accomplish restoring with simply sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “If you're someone who has a tendency to do excessive multitasking–you have 15 to 20 tabs open on your computer, you're jumping from one thing to the next, or you're in and out of your inbox all day long–multitasking has a tendency to train the brain not to recall things because why should it have to recall something if it can just open up another tab?” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “High levels of sensory input can lead to sensory overload syndrome. A lot of us don't recognize our body's response. It's just a natural response to sensory overload. It's no different than if you have a two-year-old and you take them to a birthday party, they're good the first hour, but then like an hour and a half later they're screaming their head off or they're banging their feet on the ground– they’re experiencing sensory overload.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “When you're using creative energy, part of you can become depleted, and you’re filled back up through ways that inspire you. So it's important to identify which ways you get inspired and filled back up in creativity and innovation because failure to do that leads to a feeling of depletion that we can't fix simply by sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “Most of us have lost all respect for rest. We have great respect for work and we see it as the end all, but we don't really recognize that rest is actually what prepares us to be able to sustain ourselves within the work.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “There's a lot that goes along with the holidays. One of the things that we try to...

We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: "In suffering there's this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering--that you're alone in that people don't know. All that reassurance when we say, 'Got that, yep. I had a thing.' It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted, and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it." - Kelly Corrigan “The fact is that I am deeply attached to my people and their happiness. It matters to me above all else, and if the only way not to feel that is to detach, then I'm not signing up. This means that when I'm feeling worried, it means I'm crazy about you.” - Kelly Corrigan “I think the most common thing that happens, and I don't think it's ill intent, but someone says 'Oh, I know. You know what happened to me. I had something just like that.' And it's so sweet. They're trying to relate and they're trying to normalize what's going on, and that can be really helpful. But they're probably wrong. That's the thing. You tell me your thing in five sentences and then I relate to it right away without saying, 'Tell me more. What else? Go on.' I probably don't have your thing right yet.” - Kelly Corrigan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Tell Me More Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-More-Stories-Learning/dp/0399588396/ Glitter and Glue: A Memoir by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Glitter-Glue-Memoir-Kelly-Corrigan/dp/0345532856/ The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://bit.ly/49Gsxmt For the Love of Conversations - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-43/ Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan - https://www.pbs.org/show/tell-me-more-kelly-corrigan/ Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast American Utopia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Utopia_(film) Guest’s Links: Kelly’s Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/corrigankelly?lang=en Kelly’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s...

We’re back with some more therapeutic goodness as we approach the tail end of our therapy series with another fire episode! Awareness around mental health, trauma, dysfunctional family systems and more has been coming into the national awareness on a bigger level over the last 10 years. But back in 1986, the concept of codependency was really new. And unless you were deep into studying sociology or psychology or seeing a therapist yourself back then (also something that wasn’t as widely accepted), Melody Beattie’s book, Codependent No More, gave words to the masses who never had a way to describe these types of relationships in their lives. Codependency can worm its way into our lives—the definition being; those imbalanced relationships in our lives where one person enables another person’s self-destructive behavior (like addiction, immaturity, or even irresponsibility). It’s a bit insidious for those who don’t know what it looks like, and for so many, Melody’s book was a resource to help free themselves from something they may not have even recognized in their own lives. 35 years later, it’s still shining a light on those situations. Melody comes in with a scalpel to cut away to this very precise way of behaving and relating to another that is cloaked in good intentions and self-righteousness but is actually ruining our relationships. And fun fact, we were the very first podcast Melody has ever been on! Last year, she celebrated a new edition of her book honoring 35 years of its impact. Melody and Jen walk through how to recognize what codependency is and how it might be a part of your life and your relationships—which are the first important steps toward making an enormous change for the better. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Until I understood my codependency, I didn't really feel like I had a life. I was just responding to others wherever I went.” - Melody Beattie “Codependency is being so obsessed with other people that that's all we can see and so out of touch with ourselves that we don't even see that anymore.” - Melody Beattie “Seeing ourselves is probably the bravest yet most painful thing we're ever asked to do in this lifetime. Seeing ourselves every day for the rest of our lives, instead of focusing on the other person and figuring out what they need to do to be better, to make them happier, to live better lives, all the things that we really should be doing for ourselves, but nobody ever ever told us.”- Melody Beattie “The key to codependency is the victim story. Somewhere underneath everything, there is a victim story and we're just simply writing the next page or the next chapter of it every time we interact with someone.” - Melody Beattie “When we take care of a person in a way that we feel victimized by it, that is just keeping our victim story going. And that doesn't feel good. Although for many of us, it feels so comfortable.” - Melody Beattie “Is it important to me to enjoy my life–not your life, not his life, not her life–to enjoy my life today and to love myself, at least as much as I love others?” - Melody Beattie Melody’s Links: Website: https://melodybeattie.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/authormelodybeattie/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writermelodybeattie/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/melodybeattie Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love episode with Dr. Brene Brown: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/getting-vulnerable-with-dr-bren%C3%A9-brown/id1258388821?i=1000391341377 Earnie Larson Books: https://www.hazelden.org/store/author/626?Earnie-Larsen Sharon Stone’s biography: ...

It’s that time of year again, and we’re back with another *fire* gift guide for all your giving needs this season. And not only are we showcasing amazing and thoughtful gift finds, every gift we feature gives back as well! This year, we’re partnering with Ten Thousand Villages to present a beautiful array of artisan products. Ten Thousand Villages is a global maker to market movement that addresses economic injustice. We love to shop with intention, and Ten Thousand Villages gives us that window into ethically-sourced, handcrafted wares so that our dollars empower makers all around the world. Join Jen and her daughter Sydney as they walk us through their hand picked favorites from Ten Thousand Villages, and also offer an exclusive discount to you–our beloved podcast audience. Happy Holidays from Team Jen! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ten Thousand Villages Use this link to shop with code JENHATMAKER to save 15% throughout the whole store! - https://jenhatmaker.com/giftguide/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

In this latest installment of our For The Love of Therapy series, we delve into a timely discussion on mental wellness with a focus on genuine self-care. Our guest, Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, a renowned psychiatrist and advocate for women, offers fresh insights that urge listeners to break free from the superficial beauty and wellness industry's narrative that is steadily being pushed at us through all kinds of media, but in a dizzying fashion on social media, in particular. Steering the talk away from quick-fix solutions, Dr. Lakshmin illuminates the essence of true self-care, which, in her research, links to four major chambers rarely associated with this concept. From the importance of saying 'No' when overwhelmed, to understanding that self-care is more than just a beauty regimen, she reminds us that wellness comes from within. Dr. Lakshmin, an accomplished writer for the New York Times and founder of the Gemma community, also shares insights from her book, 'Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included)'. Join us for this enlightening conversation and let's start redefining what wellness truly means. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We have to talk about the systems, the social structures that have gotten us to this place where the expectation for a woman, a mom to feel better is this very condescending, ‘well just go to a yoga class, just pour your bubble bath and a glass of wine and there… you'll feel better.’ I find that to be condescending at best, manipulative at worst.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Real self-care is an internal process. It brings you closer to yourself. It's a verb. It's not a noun.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Guilt is just there all the time when it comes to boundaries and when it comes to compassion too; how we talk to ourselves.“ - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Therapy is this cozy little corner where you can be with yourself and be curious.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included) by Dr. Pooja Lakshmin Audre Lorde Bell Hooks Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself - by Melody Beattie For the Love Podcast episode featuring Brené Brown For the Love Premium Bonus Podcast episode featuring Melodie Beatty Gemma Guest’s Links: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Website Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Twitter Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Instagram Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

It’s time for this week’s podcast therapy session and we’ve got another great therapist in our “office” as part of our For the Love of Therapy series. Dr. Sara Kuburic is an existential psychotherapist, author and the force behind The @Millennial.Therapist account on Instagram. Dr. Kuburic believes that each of us is a free and responsible agent who determines our own development through acts of our will. Though this isn’t always a popular view to take, as we often look to outside forces to blame for our unhappiness, Dr. Kuburic wants us to understand that we have this amazing opportunity to engage in life and we can take ownership and responsibility over our choices. In that vein, she asks a very important question: how much of what we deal with in life happens to us, and how much of it did we inflict on ourselves? (that’s a fun thing to spend a few hours pondering). But as a therapist, she helps people find tools to address whatever stage of life they’re–maybe it is a bad situation and you just can’t change it–but as she likes to ask: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” In addition to thinking about our lives existentially, Jen and Dr. Kuburic also discuss the concept of self-loss and how we can deceive ourselves into thinking we’re living the life we want, when our bodies are telling us otherwise by devolving into depression, anxiety and panic. Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about: What it’s like when you love the “idea” of who you are more than who you actually are–and how to stop lying to yourself What happens when not making a change in your life actually becomes more painful than changing Realizing that our bodies do have limits–no matter how strong you think you are or how strong you’ve been—your body is sending up red flags with feelings of anxiousness, fear or panic for seemingly no reason How sometimes our dedication to make something work can be so all consuming–even if that thing isn’t the right thing for our lives and hat commitment, which is normally a good quality, can lead us to our weakest moments if we don’t face up to the truth * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think I got into psychology to try to understand what makes humans tick and try to understand my own human experience.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that's really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think if you're stagnant, that's where the loss happens. That's when we overcommit to one version of ourselves. When you’re not being stagnant, you are always being fluid–I think you’re understanding the assignment, which is constant creation and adaptation of yourself to fit your experiences, your context, and what life is asking of you in that moment.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Stop assuming you know someone well enough to stop paying attention.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think having someone that I've known for eight years sit me down and just be like, ‘Hey, are you happy,” was the first time anyone, including myself, asked that question.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Someone else made the mess and now you have to clean it up when it wasn't your mess. But, the reason you're cleaning it up is because you deserve not to live in a mess, not because they deserve for you to clean it up. It's for you.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Until we understand what the consequences of our actions or inactions are, it's going to be really hard to take the next steps.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic Resources Mentioned in This Episode: It's On Me: Accept Hard Truths, Discover Yourself and Change Your Life by Dr. Sara Kuburic Dr. Sara Kuburic’s USA Today Column Guest’s Links: Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Website Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Instagram Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Facebook Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Twitter Dr. Sara...

We’re in the thick of our “For the Love of Therapy” series, and this week we’re getting a full helping of candor and insight from the multifaceted actress and author, Jada Pinkett Smith. Jada candidly reveals another side to her journey that many might not know from her highly public persona, a story where she takes charge of her narrative in the face of what people have decided for themselves who they think she is. Jada recounts the formative and often traumatic events of her past, and talks in stark terms about her present day pain points. Without sparing the hard parts, Jada leans into what it’s like for her, as it is for so many of us to be a woman today, what it’s like to reckon with our trauma, and marriage is really like behind the curtain, in hopes that what she’s learned will resonate with other women, no matter what their story is. Jen and Jada compare notes from their own lives about: Jada’s encounters with complex trauma, PTSD, panic attacks, and suicidal ideation How mental health issues can visit anyone at any time, regardless of privilege or upbringing The slow acceptance to admitting they’ve faced trauma, thinking “others have had it worse” - and the continued work toward reckoning with that truth The reality that all of us, especially those in the public sector, will be judged by others, and a new understanding that judgment is most often about people’s own pain and how they’ve been hurt by others’ judgment, rather than it is about the person being judged Through sharing her life journey, which she covers in much greater detail in her newly released book “Worthy,” it’s Jada’s hope to encourage others navigating similar struggles towards wellness and understanding. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I just wanted to offer other women breadcrumbs that are on this journey called life. Our journeys aren't going to look exactly the same, but there are just some universal challenges that we have just being human and specifically being women. I just wanted to go, ‘Listen, I don't care what's going on. Instagram and Facebook, life is messy. Life is difficult. It's challenging. We're all trying to figure this out, and I'm just going to show you little things along the way that I figured out.’” - Jada Pinkett Smith “When you really start to understand the human condition, and when you really start to see people's fears, you really start to see people's pain. That's why people want to strike at you. That's why people want to spew whatever they can your way because of how they've been hurt, how they've hurt themselves, how they've been hurt from others' judgment.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I am so lucky--yes, my mother was deep in her addiction, but I'm going to tell you--she showed up [for me] at some of the most pivotal times.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It would take me years to really detach myself from chaos because chaos became normal for me.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It's not other people's judgment that's the problem. It's how you judge yourself. When you know who you are and you are in the process of healing your self-judgment, you realize that any judgment that anybody's got on you is really a reflection of where they are sitting within themselves.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I know what kind of oxygen that would've given me if I had been able to hear someone talk about [mental health] in an honest way. I wouldn't think that I was crazy or I wouldn't have to feel so ashamed. I felt so much shame for feeling the way that I did, having the things that I had, because it's like, "well, what are you upset about?" And mental health doesn't have anything to do with that.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I wanted to share that here is a person who seemingly had it all, who was looking for cliffs to drive off of, and it...

Have you ever been told you are “too emotional,” or if you display sadness or anger that you’re “overreacting,” or (gasp) - even “hysterical?” Women have long had their emotions weaponized against them. And as part of our For the Love of Therapy series, we have a trauma therapist and mental health expert Dr. Anita Phillips at the mic to share her thoughts and findings on why embracing our emotions can be the key to living our most powerful life. Dr. Phillips extensively explores the societal pressures that often lead women to suppress their emotions. She argues that emotions are not a sign of weakness, but a source of strength, and should be embraced rather than hidden. Women's emotions are a reflection of their experiences and individuality, and they deserve to be expressed freely and without apology. She believes that if we can shift our perspective around emotions, we can achieve a healthier mental state and improved relationships, fostering a culture that values emotional authenticity and rejects unnecessary emotional censorship. Jen and Dr. Anita discuss: The agency we have over our emotions and we won’t flourish unless we stop and listen to what our bodies and our feelings are telling us That our emotions are not “red flags” they are clues that guide us to the best and healthiest way forward We shouldn’t see emotions as our enemy, and that internal war over them is not our destiny–we are created to flourish Principles from Dr. Anita’s book, The Garden Within * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when you visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Not having an explanation for what's happening is its own form of trauma. The trauma overwhelms not only our body's capacity to cope with what's happening, but it breaks our frame of reference when we cannot explain this in any way. That is also traumatizing because the world becomes chronically unsafe.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I was having these experiences with my emotions and my body that did not line up with this idea that our thoughts reigned supreme. That's one of the things that opened the door to me looking at trauma more deeply.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “My emotional pain does not squelch my spiritual power.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “We've been taught as Christians that if we believe and have faith, it's going to turn out good. Then we wouldn't be crying. We wouldn't be sad or we wouldn't be scared. That's insane because we have bodies and we're humans.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Emotion brings flexibility to our decision-making that is important. We don't want robotic decision-makers. We want people who have heart, and who recognize humanity. Emotion has always been a part of human decision making.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Because we have stigmatized emotions in order to not feel the painful ones, we have disconnected from our bodies. That's another problem; seeing the body as a problem as well.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Women are taught not to trust their gut, not to trust their intuition, but we have so much power in that space.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I'm emotional. I'm emotional all the time, and I'm so proud of that because I'm living the most powerful life I've ever lived because of that.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I want to challenge people to stop every time they have a ‘glimmer’ moment, a joy moment, and just sit in it for 30 seconds and memorize how it feels in your body. Memorize the joy because you can revisit it later when you need to bring yourself back into a hopeful space as necessary.” - Dr. Anita Phillips Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What is the Vagus Nerve? For the Love Podcast Episode Featuring Dr. Hillary McBride Guest’s Links: Dr. Anita’s...

It’s so fun when we get to have guests back on the show that we love, but it’s especially fun when we get to catch up after we haven’t talked to them for awhile! This guest joined us in the very first year of our show in the For the Love of Laughter series, and she was fire then, and she’s fire now, 5 years later. We’re talking about the amazingly talented and hilarious Anjelah Johnson-Reyes, one of our favorite comedians in the whole wide world! You know her from her awesome Nail Salon comedy sketch, which launched her career, or as her character from MadTV, Bon Qui Qui, and from her amazing comedy specials. When Anjelah was with us last time, she shared that she and her husband had chosen to pursue their careers to the fullest and had made the very personal decision to not have kids. But it’s funny what can change in five years, and Anjelah is now the proud mom of 3 month old Rosie Harlow Reyes. She shares what led to the decision to have a baby, what she’s learned in this season - which she also candidly shares on her YouTube channel via a series of videos called Postpartum Confessions. Whether she’s on stage doing comedy, acting on TV and in movies, or hosting podcasts with her husband Manny, Anjelah gives a great perspective on how life can take us where we least expect to go, and how we can laugh about it a little along the way. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Hon’s Honey | Visit honshoney.com to see how you can benefit from their fun honey-based products! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Anjelah’s Comedy Specials Anjelah’s Latest Special at the Ryman in Nashville Anjelah’s Nail Salon Bit Who Do I Think I Am: Stories of Chola Wishes and Caviar Dreams by Anjelah Johnson Anjelah’s Podcasts Including Manjelah Guest’s Links: Anjelah’s Website Anjelah’s Instagram Anjelah’s Facebook Anjelah’s Twitter Anjelah’s YouTube Anjelah’s TikTok Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

We’re keeping the laughs going as we continue our For the Love of Funny series–and this week we’ve got Kevin James Thornton, a comedian and entertainer, who, after spending his youth in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, found a lot to laugh about. After moving to LA to make his way on stages at the Comedy Store and as an actor, Kevin wasn’t sure he was happy with how his life was going. After a move to Nashville and some serious contemplation about where to go next, the pandemic hit. Bored at home, Kevin discovered a little thing called TikTok and decided it might be fun to share some of the stories of what it was like to grow up gay in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, and much to his surprise his videos were wildly successful. At 50 years old, Kevin had found his niche, and now he brings his unique brand of comedy (often sung as a story through an auto-tune device—because it was the 90’s, after all) ) with audiences across the U.S. and Europe and with over 2 million followers on social media. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Comedy Bit on Kevin’s YouTube Channel A Comedy Bit on Kevin’s YouTube Channel The Comedy Store in West Hollywood For the Love Episode with Nate Bargatze Kevin James Thornton's Upcoming Shows Guest’s Links: Kevin’s Website Kevin’s Instagram Kevin’s Twitter Kevin’s Facebook Kevin’s TikTok Kevin’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

We’re knee-deep in our “For the Love of Funny” series, celebrating all things hilarious and witty. Jen’s been a long-time fan and amateur participant in the world of comedy, and our guest today explores one of her tip-top favorite genres of comedy. He's a master of observational humor, turning even the most mundane moments of life into pure comedy gold. Our guest, Tom Papa, is not just a comedian—he's a whirlwind of talent with a remarkable career spanning two decades. From his uproarious Netflix specials "What A Day" and "You're Doing Great," to his writing and stand-up projects in comedy clubs and for shows like NPR’s "Live From Here," to his acting roles, Tom has done it all. He and Jen discuss the common theme of mining gold from your family to create some of your best comedy material (but avoiding presenting that said material to them, because family can be brutal critics). They also discuss Tom’s new passion–baking, and how between writing, doing comedy and various shows, he’s in the kitchen tending to all the processes involved with producing amazing bread and other baked goods. To that end, Tom also hosts his own podcast called "Breaking Bread with Tom Papa," where he invites guests for lively discussions over meals. Like a lot of comedians, Tom is more than just funny—he's a thoughtful, insightful individual who gives you something to think about between all the laughs. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “My uncle Tony was really funny. He would sit at the table and hold court. Then some cousins were funny, and so I definitely gravitated toward those people; that always kind of informed me. And I started doing that around my friends very, very early.” - Tom Papa “[In my comedy] I relate through family and the small stuff. It's like it is observational, but it's not. It's very personal observational, in a way." - Tom Papa "When you’re around people that are doing what you want to do, in time, you just want someone to say, 'it'll work. Just tell me. It'll work out.' It's like sometimes you go to the doctor, 'just tell me everything's all right.'" - Tom Papa “[My favorite thing] is standup, but that almost goes without saying. That's just me. So to even call that one of the things is kind of not fair. It's so good. It's so great. You get the response, you get the physical, the mental, the applause, the scariness, all of it is so raw and potent out of the other stuff that I do." - Tom Papa "One of the biggest hurdles that writers have is, is your own head saying, 'is this good enough?' And you start tearing it down and stop yourself from working with your critical mind." - Tom Papa "There's a quiet joy I have knowing as you're baking over an hour and you're opening the oven and taking the lid off of the dutch oven and then just knowing when you hit that point where the house is now filled with that smell, there's a quiet, I know I'm doing good; I may not be giving you great advice, or maybe, I've been a little short, who knows? But at least I added this." - Tom Papa “There's a perspective that you get at a certain stage in life. Right now there's lots of change and there's lots of external forces and internal stuff. There's a lot going on, but I feel like I've played this game and have a calmness and a perspective that is really, really valuable.” - Tom Papa Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Class Clown (Comedy Album by George Carlin) Let's Get Small (Comedy Album by Steve Martin) The Comedy Store Comedy Cellar Gary Gulman Ryan Hamilton Maria Bamford Colin Quinn Mateo Lane Ali Wong Live From Here A Prairie Home Companion with Garrison Keillor Come to Papa Chris Thile The Fitzgerald Theater Daily...

We’re back with more funny, and this week doesn’t disappoint. For those of you who grew up in the Bible Belt and maybe went to a conservative church (or even if you didn’t), perhaps you were a bit sheltered like our guests this week. Before racking up over 12 million combined followers on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and elsewhere, and hosting the hit podcast Correct Opinions, comedian Trey Kennedy came to fame on the short-form videosharing app Vine. His hilarious and pointed videos ranged from imitating a church youth pastor who is cornily trying to be cool and up on pop culture, to an overly sunny Dad who tries to drag his teenage son out of bed to go to church. Now, Trey has teamed up with his friend Jake Triplett, who he met at a Christian camp, and the two co host the podcast, along with Trey’s wife Katie (who keeps the pair on track and from going down too many rabbit holes). In this episode, the trio and Jen share the commonalities of their Baptist church upbringings, their naivete about dating customs (hearing Jake’s assessment of what he thought french kissing was will make you howl), and how Trey’s Bible wielding grandmother had a serious talk with him about rumours of him being gay (He’s not. Not that there’s anything wrong with that). They've managed to turn being 'sheltered' into comedy gold, and they’ve been taking their brand of comedy all around the country with their recent “Grow Up” tour and their clean comedy is resonating everywhere. Their funny spin on their past doesn't just give us a good laugh; it also makes anyone who had a similar childhood feel like part of a big, quirky family. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Vine Correct Opinions (Podcast hosted by Trey, Katie, and Jake) Trey Kennedy’s Grow Up Comedy Tour Jake Triplett’s Sheltered Kid Special Shiny Happy People Docuseries For the Love Episode ft. John Crist Make Me Care About Podcast Interview with Melinda Gates Guest’s Links: Trey’s Website Trey’s Instagram Trey’s Facebook Trey’s Twitter Jake’s Instagram Jake’s Facebook Jake’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

We’re back with more of our For the Love of Funny series, and this week we’re asking the question; is it possible to find humor not only in our lighter moments, but also in our vulnerable and difficult times? Our guest this week specializes in wit through the written word–and he has found that it is possible to find joy, while being heartfelt and hilarious at the same time. We’re welcoming R. Eric Thomas, back to the show! Whether he’s writing about politics, pop culture, or celebrity craziness–Eric has a refreshing and hilarious perspective–which really helps when regular reporting on politics and news might send us spiraling into the darkness. Eric is also a television writer (Dickinson on AppleTV+, Better Things on FX), a playwright, and a bestselling author of several books, including Here For It: Or How To Save Your Soul in America and his newest work, a collection of hilarious essays called Congratulations The Best Is Over. Eric brings that laugh we need when the world seems bonkers, and helps remind us that we can find something to laugh at in almost every situation–we just have to be open to it. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL - Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Be grateful that you got to this place because this is where you wanted to be. Don't spend so much time thinking, ‘What if it all goes away?’” - R. Eric Thomas “I think to myself, ‘If you were better, then you'd be busier and that would make you happier.’ I don't know that busier equals happier. I don't know if that's true.” - R. Eric Thomas “I remember the first time somebody came up to me in the street and said, ‘Hey, this is weird, but I follow your Facebook, a friend of mine told me to, and you're funny.’ And I'm like, ‘Who are you? What's happening? Where are the cameras?’” - R. Eric Thomas “I know from my own experience as a reader and as a writer, you can have a good time with something that is both funny and heartfelt.” - R. Eric Thomas “I posted an Instagram story that was essentially like, ‘I got rejected from this thing, but my Beyonce´ hat came. So there are pluses and minuses.’ People really responded. They were like, ‘Thank you for sharing not only your wins but your losses. It seems like you're always winning.’ I'm like, ‘baby, I am always losing, but I'm not going to share that.’” - R. Eric Thomas Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Finding Truth ft. Eric Thomas Eric Reads the News Dickinson Better Things Here for It by R. Eric Thomas Congratulations, The Best is Over by R. Eric Thomas Reclaiming Her Time: The Power of Maxine Waters by R. Eric Thomas and Helena Andrews-Dyer Kings of B’more by R. Eric Thomas Lynn Nottage’s Website The Getaway Car: A Practical Memoir About Writing and Life by Ann Patchett The Enneagram Institute Broken (in the best possible way) by Jenny Lawson My Point…And I Do Have One by Ellen Degeneres There’s Nothing in This Book That I Meant to Say by Paula Poundstone The Moth For the Love Podcast episode with Anne Bogel Guest’s Links: R. Eric Thomas’s Website R. Eric Thomas’s Instagram R. Eric Thomas’s Twitter R. Eric Thomas’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

We’re looking for laughs and we found them in all the right places, and we’re sharing the hilarity with a brand new series called For the Love Of Funny. If you’ve hung out with us for any amount of time, you know that Jen is an avid devotee of all things funny. So we’ve rounded up some of her favorite funny people to not only bring us laughs, but to unpack the art and science of making people laugh. And for our very first episode, we couldn’t be more delighted to welcome “The Tennessee Kid” himself–Nate Bargatze! Nate’s known for his down-to-earth humor and deadpan comedy delivery, his highly viewed Netflix specials, and his favored status as a frequent guest on “The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon: (10+ times!). Surprise guest interviewer Tyler Merritt joins Jen as they pull back the curtain on Nate’s comedy journey. Often referred to as the “nicest man in standup,” Nate talks about growing up in a performance forward home (his dad was a Christian magician), the origins of some of his funniest jokes (Yelled at By a Clown, anyone?) and the side of fame that isn’t so pretty–like his sister’s incredulity that anyone would want to take a selfie with him. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love Episode ft. Kevin Nealon Nate Bargatze: The Tennessee Kid Nate Bargatze: The Greatest Average American The Nateland Podcast The Be Funny Tour The Second City Comedy Club Hannibal Buress’s Website Kumail Nanjiani T.J. Miller’s Website Pete Holmes Website Amy Schumer’s Website Aziz Ansari’s Website Dusty Slay’s Website Sinbad: Afros & Bellbottoms Brian Regan’s Website Kurt Metzger’s Website Big J Oakerson’s Website Bill Burr’s Website Dave Attell’s Website Eddie Murphy: Raw Eddie Murphy: Delirious The Comic Strip Steve Martin Justin Smith’s Website Guest’s Links: Nate’s Website Nate’s Instagram Nate’s TikTok Nate’s YouTube Channel Nate’s Twitter Nate’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

As we close in on the end of our Community and Friendships series, we’re reflecting on the great conversations we’ve had toward building relationships in our lives. And this week’s convo puts the cherry on top as we discuss our friends as “chosen family” and the shape that our friendship and communities take when we are in a place where we need extra support. Our guest this week, Emma Nadler, is a therapist, author and speaker who is doing valuable work in helping people build deeper relationships. Emma knows firsthand what it means to rely on her circle in ways she never thought she would, when her daughter was diagnosed with a DNA disorder, shifting the life she knew, and navigating the special care, multiple hospital stays, and more than full-time parenting her daughter needs. By leaning on her community and being brave enough to ask for help (when sometimes the tendency is to act like we’ve got it all under control). Emma’s goal is to show us how we can look beyond preconceived notions about what it means to be valued and to belong, and leads us toward building a world where thriving in community is possible for every single person. Emma and Jen touch on: What it looks like when our “family” looks different than expected in the context of friendships and our communities How to understand and learn to tolerate our emotions when it comes to interacting with friends and community and how to find meaning in everything—good and bad Practical steps on fostering really authentic connections, asking for help, and creating inclusive spaces The power of being direct when reaching out to connect with new people, or friends you’ve drifted from, to foster a deeper relationship There’s so much value in learning how to meaningfully connect with others and create communities and friendships that celebrate our joyful times and anchor us at difficult times. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We're born into something and we get certain things from that family; we might get a lot of things. We might get a lot of love. Some people do, some people don't get what they need. I think we can take that and build on it in the relationships that we create in our lives.” - Emma Nadler “There are 53 million caregivers in the United States right now and we can really feel alone, even though we're not. Often our work [leaves us] tucked away. We're at home. We have so much that we're grappling with that isn't seen. And so it can really feel [lonely].” - Emma Nadler “What would it be like to be open with people about what we are looking for in our relationships, what we want, and really let that in? ” - Emma Nadler “To me, in relationships, the question I'm most interested in is, do we want the same things out of this relationship?” - Emma Nadler “We're full of possibilities. We just never know when we're gonna meet someone who will change our life.” - Emma Nadler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Unlikely Village of Eden by Emma Nadler Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker Dr. Robert Waldinger’s Harvard Second Generation Study Guest’s Links: Emma’s Website Emma’s Instagram Emma’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube PLEASE NOTE: Listening to this podcast in no way creates a client/therapist relationship with Emma Nadler. This is educational in nature. No legal, counseling, or other professional services are being rendered and nothing is intended to provide such services or advice of any kind. If you are having a mental health emergency, please contact 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. You can also text or call 988 for the Suicide and Crisis...

We’re back with our “For the Love of Community and Friendship Series, and this week, we delve into an area of friendship that all of us may face, but inevitably dread. It’s that moment when you know a friendship has run its course, or perhaps has become toxic, or you’ve just drifted apart–and you don’t know how to go forward. When life changes, when we change, and a friendship no longer serves us, how do we gracefully (and honestly) communicate about it? Our guest this week, who is here to walk us through this touchy topic, is writer, former standup comedian and political consultant Erin Falconer. Erin's written a book called How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. Lest you think this is just a conversation on how to wipe your friend slate clean, stick around–you’ll hear Jen and Erin talk about how to create and maintain the healthiest friendships through all the seasons of our lives in order to avoid the painful friend breakup. They also discuss: Erin’s “Six Pillars of Friendship” that help us take stock of who is in our life and how we’re serving each other What to do when we see a friendship has run its course or needs to shift or change in some way It’s tough to grapple with the complexities of friendship breakups, but it all starts with building healthy relationships from the start. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL - Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There's no collectively agreed upon language out there in the zeitgeist about how to navigate conflict in [friend] relationships. There’s no blueprint for what a good one looks like, what a bad one looks like, and how to get out of good bad ones and into good ones." - Erin Falconer “The default setting on any one relationship should be one of positivity. It's so easy to slip into negative thinking and negative conversations because they feel so good. They feel like you're seen and you're heard and done. But you have to be really careful to not lean too heavily into those things.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships take work. To show up, you need to commit to the other person and you have to find your rhythm of what that looks like. It doesn't mean you have to be getting dinner every week, but there has to be some kind of agreed-upon level of commitment in this.” - Erin Falconer “It is true that individuals themselves can be toxic people. That is such a small percentage of people. It is, in this case, the relationship that is toxic, and even if somebody else is behaving badly, you've allowed them to continue to show up in this way in your life. We teach people how to treat us and there's a certain degree of responsibility we need to own within these relationships because with responsibility comes freedom and power.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships are very much a mirror to you. The more you explore these types of relationships, the more you explore yourself. To that end, understanding who is in your world is really important to understanding who you are.” - Erin Falconer Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Reconnecting ft. Nedra Tawwab How to Break Up with Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection, and Boundaries in Modern Friendships by Erin Falconer Marie Kondo Guest’s Links: Erin’s Instagram Erin’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

When was the last time you reached out to one of your neighbors? Not just the people you feel comfortable with, but the ones who live near that you might not know beyond a “How are you?” in passing. As we continue our Community and Friendship series, we’re taking a look at why it enriches our lives (and the lives of our neighbors) to invest in the people around us. It doesn’t have to mean they all become our best friends, but a little curiosity, a little paying attention, and a little effort to listen will go a long way in developing the kinds of relationships that make life sweeter. To help guide this conversation, we’re delighted to welcome author and speaker Shannan Martin back to the show! Through her writing, Shannan has revolutionized the way we think about relationships with her refreshing perspectives. She articulates the need for genuine, deep-seated friendships that stretch beyond conventional norms. She also unravels the complexities of forging meaningful connections in our modern world, and her last book “Start with Hello” beckons us toward extending hospitality in ways that might feel awkward at first, but will net us that sense of community and belonging we all long for. Shannan and Jen discuss: How Shannan, a self proclaimed introvert, faced her loneliness after she and her family moved from the country to the city by getting outside her comfort zone and making herself available to meet her neighbors What it means to be deeply embedded in a neighborhood where you are both a good neighbor, and your neighbors are good neighbors to you How making new friends, no matter how big or small, always starts with a simple “hello” and the small steps towards getting to know someone by making eye contact, paying attention and helping when we can Shannan and Jen agree that when we reach out beyond our fears, beyond our comfort level, and beyond our borders with radical hospitality, good things start to happen in our neighborhoods which then trickle out to our communities and begin to affect society as a whole. And, be sure to stay with us ‘til the very end–you won’t want to miss a little bonus chat among friends about whether ice cream is healthy for you or not, and what flavors Jen and Shannan swear by. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Every relationship that we have, whether it's the smallest acquaintance or our truest loves, began with a hello.” - Shannan Martin “There's this unfair idea that if somebody is unhoused, they're gonna be inherently a danger to us and it's just simply not true.” - Shannan Martin “What if we just decided to eat together? What if we decided that nobody is exempt from being in our home? Everybody's invited. That makes life really interesting.” - Shannan Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Books Series The Window (a nonprofit organization out of Goshen, IN) Shannan’s Books For the Love Episode ft. Osheta Moore An article on the health benefits of Ice Cream by The Atlantic Toad the Wet Sprocket Tour Crack the Case by Dawes Guest’s Links: Shannan’s Website Shannan’s Twitter Shannan’s Instagram Shannan’s Facebook Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

Hey friends, we are back with another episode in our For the Love of Community & Friendships, and we happen to have a true friend of the show returning to lay down some expertise about what it means to make and keep friends. We’re delighted to have Dr. Marisa Franco, (who also partnered with Jen to create a MeCourse on Friendship) who delves into the fascinating world of friendship attachment styles. Dr. Franco shares her extensive knowledge and insights on how our attachment styles, often formed during our early years, can significantly influence the type of friendships we form as adults. She discusses the three main types of attachment styles—secure, avoidant, and anxious—and explains how understanding our own style can help us navigate our friendships more effectively. Jen and Marisa touch on: How the three main types of attachment styles can change over time as we typically become more secure as we mature How, when we’re younger, we tend to have more friends (and friends who are very similar to us) as we look to expand our identity, and when we become more solid in our identity, we’re more open to be friends with people who are different from us Why friendship doesn’t just typically “happen,”--it takes effort, and some ways you can put yourself out there to make new friends, and how to do the work to keep the friends you already have How to approach conflict in friendship where we kindly share our needs with a spirit of reconciliation over an attitude of defensiveness * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If you don't understand your attachment style, you think that the world is just mean and cruel and people are gonna reject you or people are going to betray you. If you're more avoidant and you don't have any power, you don't have any agency because all the issues are out in the world.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “I think if we can understand our attachment styles, we have more agency, we have more control, we can shift our behaviors and we can find the relationships that we really want.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “People are a lot more likely to be friends with people that are similar to them. It's called homophily. The value of these similar relationships is they do make us feel very safe.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “We see in the research that people who see friendship as happening without effort are more likely to be lonely five years later. People that see it as requiring effort are less likely to be lonely five years later.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “What we see in the research is that when people try to reconnect with someone, that person is happier to receive that reconnection than we predict.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “In a healthy conflict, I think of; what does this conflict look like without blame? What if I go into here not trying to blame this person, not trying to even assume that they were trying to intentionally hurt me. So then, how do I navigate it with that being what's going on in my head?” - Dr. Marisa Franco Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Platonic How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends a book by Dr. Marisa Franco Guest’s Links: Dr. Franco’s Website Dr. Franco’s Instagram Dr. Franco’s Facebook Dr. Franco’s Twitter Dr. Franco’s Psychology Today Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

Genuine heart friendships have an incredible impact on our lives, including our health. Many recent studies tout the connection between health and the quality of your relationships, and that loneliness (not to be confused with being alone) can have a negative effect on our health–possibly even bigger than smoking or drinking or poor eating. So is it possible that our friends can actually help save us? Our guest today thinks so; writer and poet extraordinaire Maggie Smith recently went through a divorce and she credits her close knit friend group for being “her parachute” in that process (much like Jen’s friends have been for her as well). Jen and Maggie discuss these topics around friendship: The way friends can invest in you in a way that family isn’t able to when you’re going through disruptive life moments The friends that intuitively know what you need during a rough patch and show up proactively with solutions so you don’t feel so lost How we can nurture those “life saving” friendships by being a good friend ourselves Thank God for the friends who remind us of who we are–of our core goodness and worth– when a disruptive time shakes up our identity. They help bring us back to ourselves. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was in a ‘not seeing the forest for the trees' mode. I was painting an inch from the canvas. I had no idea what the shape of anything was and I was just panicked and trying to spackle everything back together as quickly as I could. And so having people who could remind me of my goodness, my core worth, which I think is so easy to forget in these moments." - Maggie Smith "When friends come in, they're not necessarily invested in the relationship. They're invested in your happiness. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't actually impact your friend a block away. If your marriage doesn't work the same way it impacts your family, who's thinking, 'Oh, what are we gonna do for Christmas now?'" - Maggie Smith “I think there's something that we do that hurts our adult friendships in particular, which is why we prioritize them sometimes way below our romantic relationships. It happens even when we're dating. We all knew or we were the girl who was 15 and as soon as she got a boyfriend stopped hanging out with her friends on the weekends because she was like, ‘I just wanna be with my boyfriend and if he's busy then I can come hang out.’” - Maggie Smith "Maybe someone hurt you five years ago now seems pretty small and not unmanageable or unforgivable. So what would it take to just reach out, call your friends, and have them help you craft a text to someone that you haven't talked to in a while, or leave a voicemail—if you're phone brave, I am not phone brave, so I would text or probably email. If you know where they live, send a little postcard that has some little private joke or something that reminds you of them." - Maggie Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith My Thoughts Have Wings by Maggie Smith (A picture book releasing in winter 2024 by Maggie Smith) Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith (FTL Episode featuring Maggie Smith) Guest’s Links: Maggie’s Website Maggie’s Instagram Maggie’s Twitter Maggie’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube

We’re in a brand new series; For the Love of Friends and Community. Friendship and community often serve as the cornerstone for many women's lives, providing a vital support system that nurtures connection, empathy, and mutual growth. In a recent survey from Psych Central, nearly half of most women report having fewer than 3 close friends, one third report having between 4-9 close friends, and 12% say they have no close friends at all. We know that friendship contributes to more satisfaction in life and is good for our overall health. So what’s the key to finding and keeping friends? How many friends do we need to get those good friend vibes? Our guest this week, author and podcaster Laura Tremaine, has written extensively about friendship, drawing from her own experiences and the experiences of other women she has talked to. Laura wants us to identify, create and nurture these deep connections that we long for. She also teaches us that friendship takes work, and vulnerably shares her friendship fails (yes, even a friendship expert has a few friend misses now and again). Jen and Laura discuss: The key qualities that make a friendship meaningful and enduring, and how those things are defined by what you value A rundown of the things we all may think are important about friendship and looking at the things that aren’t as important as we’ve been made to believe they are How to navigate friendship breakups and friendships ending, allowing grief over that loss, and leaving room for that vacant “chair” to be filled by someone new Finding the “fellow obsessive” friend - the one you can geek out about with things that you both love Creating meaningful friendships is not just about having a social circle. It's about experiencing true companionship and vulnerability and support. And it's these soul connections that can bring so much joy and fulfillment to our lives. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “You can have all the data about why we connect or don't connect or how many people we can reasonably connect with. There's data and then there's actually real life.” - Laura Tremaine “It's great to have the friends who knew you when. It's also great to have friends who are like, ‘I had no idea you used to be that way and I'm glad we're meeting at this stage.’” - Laura Tremaine “My friendship with one of my best friends ended not by my choice, and it was as devastating as any romantic breakup I have ever been through.” - Laura Tremaine “Sharing your stuff, even when it's messy, brings you closer to who you are.” - Laura Tremaine “When you make a new friend and someone likes this newest version of you that you have fought so hard to be, how validating is that?” - Laura Tremaine “Friendship is a to-do and I have to put it on my to-do list like I put work tasks on my to-do list.” - Laura Tremaine Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Share Your Stuff I’ll Go First (a book by Laura Tremaine) Friends song by Michael W. Smith Brené Brown’s Websites Jamie B. Golden Steven King Summer (A book club with Laura Tremaine) On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King The Stand by Stephen King Guest’s Links: Laura’s Instagram Laura’s Facebook Laura’s Podcast Laura’s Amazon Laura’s Website Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube