The Arise Podcast

"Woe to those who manipulate religion and the very name of God for their own military, economic and political gain, dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth," Leo said during his four-country tour of Africa. "It is a world turned upside down, an exploitation of God’s creation that must be denounced and rejected by every honest conscience." Link here Podcast Summary: Pope Fiction This episode is a sharp, passionate, and often humorous conversation about religion, power, and political corruption in the current American moment. Using recent controversies involving Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth, and Pope Leo as a starting point, the three of you explore how Christianity is being manipulated for political gain and how sacred language is used to justify cruelty, nationalism, and violence. A central thread of the episode is grief and disbelief: How did so many faith communities get here? Rebecca especially wrestles with the collapse of theological integrity inside modern evangelicalism, while Jenny situates these distortions within a much longer historical pattern—empire repeatedly co-opting religion for domination. Danielle brings in race, imagery, and whiteness, asking how white depictions of Jesus shape public consciousness and who gets recognized as holy in the first place. The conversation also moves toward accountability. You discuss public figures like Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and Marjorie Taylor Greene criticizing Trump, but question whether criticism without confession or repair means anything. What emerges is a larger theme: repentance is not words—it is dismantling harmful systems one helped build. Despite the outrage, the episode holds onto resistance and hope. Danielle names the endurance of oppressed people—“We’ve been doing this for hundreds of years and we’re still here.” Rebecca points to truth-telling traditions, especially from the Black church, as carrying moral clarity in moments when mainstream institutions fail. Jenny reminds listeners that these abuses are ancient, but so is the resistance to them. Overall, this is a podcast about spiritual discernment in a disorienting age: how to recognize counterfeit faith, refuse numbness, and keep one’s conscience alive. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Danielle “When it comes to defending my kids, my husband, my community, my family members—even if I don’t like you and I thought it was unjust—I could really step in and kick some ass. But when it comes to myself, the shutdown is so strong. I almost want to fall asleep.” Rebecca “There’s a reason why you can be so passionate about justice—because you know what unjust feels like and looks like and sounds like. Whatever we have to do to survive that stays with us. And we can simultaneously say, ‘I won’t ever stand by and watch somebody I love feel what I felt.’” Jenny “I think part of it is how I’ve been socialized as a white woman—you are supposed to be demure and look out for the betterment of other people. And even when women speak up about harm, they say, ‘I didn’t want this to happen to another woman.’ And that’s good—but why isn’t it enough to say, ‘This happened to me, and it’s not okay?’ It’s like we need a surrogate to make it permissible to tell the truth.” Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Episode Summary Trigger Warning: We should mention that parts of this story might be disturbing for some of our listeners. Dolores Huerta reminds us of the risk still carried in speaking: “I think that women when they do come forward with their stories, that they instead of getting the kind of support that they need, to get attacked, I mean, or they're not believed that we've seen this happen throughout history, and so I think we'll just have to deal with that if it does happen. Hopefully it won't, but if it does, we'll just have to deal with it… have you spoken to the two women who were girls when they were assaulted by Cesar Chavez?” From Latino USA Podcast In this episode, the hosts move from a light, relatable moment—caring for an anxious rescue cat—into a deeply layered conversation about power, harm, and the complexities of accountability in both personal and societal contexts. Prompted by emerging allegations surrounding civil rights leader Cesar Chavez, the conversation explores a painful and recurring question: how do we reconcile meaningful social contributions with personal harm, particularly when those in power abuse their position? The hosts reflect on the exhaustion of witnessing repeated patterns of powerful men causing harm, and consider how systems of power themselves may shape or even encourage these dynamics. Drawing on psychological frameworks like the Stanford Prison Experiment, the discussion examines how dominance, hierarchy, and culturally defined leadership traits may predispose individuals toward harmful behavior. Danielle introduces her theory of “white attachment” as a hierarchical rather than relational system—one that prioritizes proximity to power over mutual connection—resulting in cycles of exclusion, trauma, and disconnection from belonging. The conversation expands into a broader critique of Western constructs of identity and belonging, particularly the idea that access to power and resources defines inclusion. Rebecca frames “whiteness” not as an inherent trait, but as a system organized around who is granted access and who is denied it—often requiring individuals to sacrifice parts of themselves to belong. From there, the hosts explore the instability of belonging in American systems—where invitations (to citizenship, safety, or care) are often paired with betrayal. This tension is linked to intergenerational trauma, migration, and the lived reality that safety is never guaranteed, even when promised. A central theme emerges around accountability: what it is, who enforces it, and whether current systems are capable of holding harm in meaningful ways. The group critiques institutional failures—from government to churches—and wrestles with the limitations of both punitive and individualistic approaches. In contrast, they reflect on community-based models of accountability, including restorative practices observed in Ugandan communities, where harm is understood as collective and healing involves ritual, reintegration, and shared responsibility. This raises a core tension between individual justice and communal repair—especially in cases of sexual violence, where harm is both deeply personal and socially embedded. The episode also highlights: The cost of silence for survivors, particularly when speaking out threatens community stability The lack of accountability for perpetrators, even when evidence is public (e.g., Epstein cases) The need to shift cultural responsibility from protecting victims to shaping the behavior and accountability of men The failure of communities to address early warning signs of harm Throughout, the hosts resist easy answers. Instead, they hold the complexity of these issues—acknowledging the difficulty of balancing justice, safety, belonging, and repair in a world where harm is both systemic and deeply human. The episode closes with a recognition that while no clear solutions were reached, the conversation itself reflects an ongoing search for more...

Jenny (00:02): I think is actually thought provoking. I've seen some conversation around the idea that there was this intentional move to make white women the face of this administration and to do it in a way that is you're woefully unprepared. You maybe even are intentionally ill prepared to take the fall and that that is not a new dynamic for white men. Rebecca (01:03): She really can't talk. Jenny (01:06): Okay. I'm sorry. We had just talked, so I was not prepared for your voice to sound like that. It sounds great. It sounds great. Yeah. (01:28): I know. I know, but I still wasn't ready. I'm sorry, friend. That sucks. You sound really sorry. (01:53): Yeah. No, I like this, Rebecca. I feel like this is so much about what I've been researching and writing for my book is what I'm calling the anatomy of a missionary and looking at how white women were set up as soft power for imperialism and the gender social role that white women serve abroad. I think we're experiencing now what Emma says calls the boomerang of imperialism. And so the roles that white women have taken on in the global south for 50 years plus, we're now seeing those higher levels of power, but it's not actually ... It is levels of power, but it's mostly levels in proximity to male power that are still above those women. So they're always going to be on the sacrificial block whenever they need to be more than the white males in those positions would be, is what I think. (03:05): I would call it a position of power so long as the performance is enacted to suit power. And I just read this really great article from Carrie Twigg about how Christine Nome essentially got fired because she couldn't perform on TV well. And Trump is looking to continue to build his media empire and use propaganda to get people to continue to stand behind him, and she didn't perform well. And so it is power so long as you don't mess up, but the second that you don't align yourself with the way that power wants you to. So it's a really precarious power, I would say. Rebecca (03:56): See, I would even say, I don't think that's why she got fired. I would say that- And there was no move to find someone that's actually qualified, who had a snowball's chance of performing well on the world stage. So that's why I'm like, I don't think it is as simple as she didn't perform well. She was never going to perform well. And you knew that when you picked her. And so to me, I'm like, what's that choice actually about? It's the same thing now. I heard on the news recently that (05:09): Erica Kirk just got appointed to be the chair of the Air Force. I don't know. Some committee, some task force that has something to do with the running of something to do with the Air Force. And all of my apologies for not getting this particular thing specifically right. But my thing is, what do you know about armed forces? Nothing. It's not like you're a former retired Air Force, whatever. You're not. You know nothing about any of this. So again, you're picking someone from jump, blonde-haired, blue-eyed female who is ill-prepared from the very beginning for this very public face of a very armed forces in the middle of a war and your pick is Erica Kirk. Really? What's that set up about? (06:25): I'm just saying when it goes left and it will, just like what happened with ICE, it's going to take this turn for the worst that you won't actually recover from. Now you have a sacrificial lamb. You can say that somebody lost their job over this and it makes it look like you are doing something to address a grave wrong and you're not. (07:12): And the sad part is that I saw something recently where Stephen Smith, that sports news guy has made this comment about Kamala Harris, like if I hear her say one more time, she told you so. And the thing that I think is interesting is like, you do have these women, in this case, a black woman, who actually has the credentials to weigh in on something in proximity or...

“El mexicano frecuenta a la muerte, la burla, la acaricia, duerme con ella, la festeja, es uno de sus juguetes favoritos y su amor permanente.” ― Octavio Paz, El Laberinto de la Soledad Lindsay Graham: https://abcnews4.com/news/local/after-laying-out-a-similar-plan-11-years-ago-lindsey-graham-hails-trumps-iran-operation https://youtu.be/wjGgrU8g30c?si=Bly_wZswHLJr8gpw Danielle (00:04): I saw this thing from Lindsay Graham, this clip, and he was saying what we're doing in Iran now is going to ... And Lindsay Grand is a senator here in the United States. And he said he's going to ... What we're doing in Iran, quote, doing, because they're not calling it a war, they're calling it a special operation. He said is going to set the tone in the Middle East for the next 1000 years. And so you can go into your eschatology and your theology after this, Jenny, but he also then proceeded to say that this is a matter of which religion is going to be predominant in the planet. And they talked about Islam and they spoke about Christianity in those terms. And yeah, I wonder what comes up for you as I even just say those brief few sentences about theologically how we grew up or the frame you come from. Jenny (01:03): So much. I mean, so much. I think about how skewed and biased the interpretation of Revelation was in the world that I grew up in. And it was always like fear mongering, like barcodes were the mark of the beast. And then I know people in that same world that said that COVID vaccines were the mark of the beast and just like all of these things. And the mark of the beast was literally the numerical definition of Caesar Nero. It's nothing like we say it is. It was apocalyptic literature that was speaking to the time for a very specific purpose. And yet it has been co-opted. And I really appreciate this book from Bart Erman called Armageddon, and he breaks down the entire historical context for the Book of Revelation and then what has happened to it. And I was thinking about, I was nine, 10 years old when I watched the movie Left Behind with Kirk Cameron and I was terrified that the rapture was going to happen. (02:16): And it was only a year or so, maybe it was even in that same year that I watched the two planes hit the world Trade Center buildings on my family's television. And it was the same television I had just watched Left Behind on that year. And so in my little nine, 10, 11 year old brain, I was like, oh my God, those pilots got raptured and me and my mom are here in our living room and that's what happened.That's how quickly and how much that was associated with my consciousness and what I had been conditioned to. There's many more things that come to mind, but those are some of my first thoughts. Danielle (03:00): Well, even into my young adulthood, and maybe even now, it's been so ... We had to watch when I was little, we went to church and we watched these scenes of the United ... The rapture had happened. And then if you were left behind, then what would happen to you? And the only image I remember from these movies, and I should look them up, is people confessing Jesus because they wouldn't take the mark of the beast. And then they ... I wasn't even in kindergarten, so they put their heads through this guillotine and then they snapped down and people were beheaded. So I remember watching that at church and then at some point coming home and dreaming that the devil was in my room and then running outside and no one was in the garage. So I thought I'd been left behind. And oddly enough, even though I have moved away from that belief entirely about the rapture, if I wake up and everybody's gone or I'm not expecting it, even to this day, something flashes in my mind, "Oh, I wonder if that happened. (04:11): I wonder if I got left. I wonder if I didn't make it. " So those things have a lasting impact. Jenny (04:18): They do. They really do. I mean, I often think about ... So nine eleven happened and then that...

Jenny (02:14): I have been thinking about conversations that I've been having and things that I've been seeing lately about this new found anger and rage for MAGA friends and family members. And I think this facade of hope for a long time that I had been called Hyperbolic and I'd been saying I was overreacting or I was paranoid, and then when things continued to escalate, there was the sense of, okay, now they'll see. Now they'll see. And really feeling like there's pretty much not more that could happen that would lift the veil of where we are in this current moment. And so then to still have family members not rejecting Trump, not rejecting Christian nationalism, not rejecting white supremacy, it has been really challenging to think through what does relationship mean right now? What does it mean from a privileged body too? I'm really hesitant, and Danielle and I have talked a lot about this, that it's a very white thing to be like, ah, I'm just going to not talk to you and I don't feel like that's necessary. And if people are saying, you just need to not talk about politics with me, what does it look like to hold my own integrity and be in relationship with people in this moment? I am struggling to know what that looks like and how to do that. Rebecca (04:20): It makes me think I'm getting ready to do, you guys probably saw this, but I'm going to do starting Monday, a group with Jen Murphy, and the name of it is Rebuilding Hope. And I think Hope has something to do with what you just said, Jenny. I am not sure how it plugs in, but I do think there's, what I hear is what do I do? Do I just give into the, they're never going to get there, and what does that mean for our capacity to stay connected in any way? Or do I still hold something of this hope that might even feel foolish in this moment of someday? Maybe somebody's going to get there. (05:18): And it reminds me a little bit of, I probably said this before in here too, there's a podcast between a conversation between Tahi cos and Ezra Klein, and in some ways they end up talking about this question of hope, although I don't think they use the word necessarily, but one of the questions that Ezra Klein it keeps asking is like, why do you keep putting everything in this long historical arc? Every single thing that we're talking about in this moment is sort of this question to Tanya. She comes like, why do you keep putting it in this long arc of history? Because that feels too heavy. It's too much, right? That's too dark. And in part I think at least the way I interpret coats as an answer is because that's where you access this kind of hope that over the long arc of history, something will shift and bend towards something that feels like justice. And that's sort of bringing Martin Luther King into this conversation about the long arc of justice. But I think Coates's answer is something of that's where we gather the capacity and the strength from the past in order to actually stay in the present with the kind of insistence for something good to come out of all of this. So I don't know, there's something in that sort of narrative and that history that I want to borrow from to say, unfortunately, this is not a new conversation in this country. (07:13): It feels that way because it's new in my lifetime. It's new in our lifetime, it's new in our generation, but it's not actually new to the country. And when you look over time, there has always forever been this strain of Christian nationalism and white supremacy, and yet we are still here and we are still here with moments like Bad Bunny in the Super Bowl still happening. And so I think, at least for me, in part, the answer to your question is I have to borrow from that space in order to have the capacity to stay in this one. And it occurs to me that I was born in the seventies post civil rights legislation by the time I was in high school applying to college, affirmative action was the law of the land (08:21): I have...

Rebecca W. Walston: https://rebuildingmyfoundation.com At Solid Foundation Story Coaching, we believe that stories shape our lives. Our experiences—both joyful and painful—define how we see ourselves and interact with the world. Story Coaching offers a unique space to explore your personal journey, uncover patterns of hurt and resilience, and gain clarity on how your past shapes your present. Unlike therapy, Story Coaching is not about diagnosis or treatment. Instead, it’s about having someone truly listen—without judgment or advice—so you can process your story in a safe and supportive space. Whether you choose one-on-one coaching or small group sessions, you’ll have the opportunity to share, reflect, and grow at your own pace. Jenny McGrath: https://www.indwellcounseling.com I am Jenny! (She/Her) MACP, LMHC I am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Somatic Experiencing® Practitioner, Certified Yoga Teacher, and an Approved Supervisor in the state of Washington. have spent over a decade researching the ways in which the body can heal from trauma through movement and connection. I have come to see that our bodies know what they need. By approaching our body with curiosity we can begin to listen to the innate wisdom our body has to teach us. And that is where the magic happens! Danielle S. Rueb Castillejo: www.wayfindingtherapy.com Danielle (00:06): Welcome to the Arise Podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, spirituality. We're jumping here and talking about this current moment. We just can't get away from it. There's so much going on, protest kids, walking out of schools, navigating the moment of trauma. Is that really trauma? So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Danielle, Jenny and Rebecca, Rebecca (00:28): A sentence that probably I'm going to record us. Maybe it's fair, maybe it's not. But I feel like everyone is, is traumatized, and I'm only using the word traumatized because I don't have a better word to say. I think there's very little time and space to give this well reasoned, well thought out, grounded reaction to everything because there's the threat level is too high. So trying to ground yourself in this kind of environment and feel like you're surefooted about the choices that you're making feels really hard. It is just hard. And I don't say that to invalidate anybody's choice. I say that just to say everything feels like it's just difficult and most things feel like there are impossible choices. I don't know. It just, yeah, it's a crazy maker. Jenny (01:45): I agree with you. And I also feel like it's like we need a new word other than trauma, because Bessel Vander Kott kind of came up with this idea of trauma working with veterans who had gone through the war. We are actively in the war right now. And so what is the impact of our nervous system when we're not going, oh, that's a trauma that happened 10 years ago, 20 years ago, but every single day we're in a nervous system. Overwhelmed. Is there a word for that? What is that that we're experiencing? And maybe trauma works, but it's almost like it doesn't even capture what we're trying to survive right now. Rebecca (02:31): Yes. And even when you just said the idea of nervous system overwhelmed, I wanted to go, is that word even accurate? I have lots of questions for which I don't have any answers, like minute to minute, am I overwhelmed individually? Is my people group overwhelmed? I don't know. But I feel that same sense of, it's hard to put your finger on vocabulary that actually taps into what may or may not be happening minute by minute, hour by hour for someone. Right? There might be this circumstance where you feel, you don't feel overwhelmed. You feel like you could see with startling clarity exactly what is happening and exactly the move you want to make in that space. And 30 seconds later you might feel overwhelmed. Danielle (03:35): I agree. It's such a hot kettle for conflict too. It's like a hot, hot kettle. Anytime...

In this episode, we explore what it means to stay human in a time of collective trauma. We talk about messiness as a core part of being alive, how purity culture and rigid systems disconnect us from our bodies, and why agency, consent, and clear yeses and nos are essential forms of resistance. Together, we unpack how supremacy shapes therapy, relationships, and identity — especially through individualism, whiteness, and disembodiment — and imagine more liberating ways of practicing care, connection, and community. The conversation weaves personal reflection, cultural critique, and somatic wisdom, inviting listeners back into their bodies, their grief, and their shared humanity. Subverting Supremacy Culture in our Practice: Part 2 Friday, January 30, 2026 2:00 PM 4:00 PM VIRTUAL https://www.shelterwoodcollective.com/events/subverting-supremacy-culture-in-our-practice-part-2 Working with people means navigating power, race, and trauma. This workshop will help you notice supremacy culture in the room and resist it. Due to the way Christian nationalism works in the US we create space to engage Christian supremacy and its manifestations of racialized heteronormativity that affects all bodies — regardless of religious or non-religious status. You will learn embodied, relational tools to strengthen your practice and reduce harm. Danielle S. Rueb Castillejo (she/her), Psychotherapist, Activist, Community Organizer; Jenny McGrath (she/her), Psychotherapist Writer, Author, Body Movement Worker; Abby Wong-Heffter, (she/her), Psychotherapist Teacher, Attachment Specialist; Tamice Spencer-Helms, (she/they), Author, Theoactivist, Non-Profit Leader are collaborating to create a generative learning space for therapists, social workers, educators, organizers, spiritual leaders, healthcare providers, and community practitioners. Together we will work with the ways supremacy culture shows up somatically, relationally, and structurally in helping professions. We will examine how dissociation, fragmentation, and inherited oppression narratives shape our work, and develop practices to interrupt these patterns. This workshop addresses diversity and cultural competence by: Examining how supremacy culture impacts Black, Indigenous, and People of Color differently than white-bodied practitioners. Naming cultural, historical, and intergenerational forces that shape power dynamics in clinical and community settings. Offering embodied, relational, and trauma-informed tools to practitioners working across racial, ethnic, cultural, and linguistic differences. Developing the capacity to recognize and intervene in oppression harm while maintaining therapeutic integrity and accountability. Participants will engage in reflective dialogue, somatic exercises, case-based examples, and guided exploration of their own positionality. The intent is not perfection but deepening collective responsibility and expanding our capacity to resist supremacy culture inside our practice and in ourselves. The workshop is designed to meet the Washington Department of Health requirement for two hours of health equity continuing education (WAC 246-12-820). The Blackfoot Wisdom that Inspired Maslow’s Hierarchy By Teju Ravilochan, originally published by Esperanza Project https://www.resilience.org/stories/2021-06-18/the-blackfoot-wisdom-that-inspired-maslows-hierarchy/ Danielle (00:05): Be with you. Yeah. Well, it seems like from week to week, something drastically changes or some new trauma happens. It reminds me a lot of 2020. Jenny (00:15): Yeah. Yeah, it really does. I do feel like the positive in that is that similar to 2020, it seems like people are really looking for points of connection with one another, and I feel like there was this lull on Zoom calls or trainings or things like that for a while. People were just burned out and now people are like, okay, where in the world can I connect with people that are similar to me? And sometimes that means...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/21/ice-arrests-five-year-old-boy-minnesota US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) detained a five-year-old Minnesota boy on Tuesday as he returned home from school and transported him and his father to a Texas detention center, according to school officials. Liam Ramos, a preschooler, and his father were taken into custody while in their driveway, the superintendent of the school district in Columbia Heights, a Minneapolis suburb, said at a press conference on Wednesday. Liam, who had recently turned five, is one of four children in the school district who have been detained by federal immigration agents during the Trump administration’s enforcement surge in the region over the last two weeks, the district said. portrait of child wearing black polo Liam Ramos. Photograph: Courtesy of Columbia Heights Public Schools Liam and his father had just arrived home when they were detained, according to Zena Stenvik, the superintendent, who said she drove to the home when she learned of the detentions. When she arrived, Stenvik said the father’s car was still running and the father and son had already been apprehended. An agent had taken Liam out of the car, led the boy to his front door and directed him to knock on the door asking to be let in, “in order to see if anyone else was home – essentially using a five-year-old as bait”, the superintendent said in a statement. Danielle (00:02): Well, Hey, Jenny, how you doing? I'm hanging in there. How you doing? Same hanging in there a part. I think of it as trying to get in or out of a space and hanging by my fingernails on an edge. That's how I think of it sometimes. (00:27): One time I told a friend, Hey man, I can do a pull up off a door jam. And they were like, really? And I was just like, yeah. And then they tried to do it repeatedly. Their hands were so sore. I was like, I didn't really mean it. I was just joking, but maybe it's like that doing a pull up off a door jam or something. Yeah, Jenny (00:46): I can't even do a normal pull up. I'm working on it. I'm working on my strength. Yeah. I'm trying. Danielle (00:53): Good for you. That's our power. Jenny (00:55): That's right. I am currently in Florida, and so I'm a little worried about this ice storm that's coming through. I think I'm a little bit south of it, so we should hopefully be in the clear, but it's still, you can feel Winter's, the Bruin here. I know. It's a little scary. We're going to just thankfully be parked somewhere where we don't have to drive for at least a few days just in case. Danielle (01:33): Okay, cool. Cool. Will you stay in Florida or what's your trajectory right now? Jenny (01:38): Yeah, we're going to be here probably a couple months, and then we'll probably head over to New Orleans. There's a New Orleans book festival. It's a giant book event, so we're excited for that. And then we'll start probably heading back up to the northeast when it starts to warm up again in late spring, early summer. Yeah. Yeah. So my manuscript is complete and I have sent it to my ideal publisher and they like it and they're going to pitch it by the end of February. So I'm just crossing all my fingers and toes that they all feel like it's a really good fit, and hopefully in about a month from now I'll have a definitive answer, but I have a really good feeling about it. I really value this publisher and yeah, it feels really in alignment with what I'm trying to do with my book. I am trying to help folks understand that their individual body, specifically white cis women in the United States that has been positioned and conditioned within Christian nationalism is just that it is conditioned and positioned by Christian nationalism. And the more that we become aware of that and conscious of that, the more mobility and freedom we can find in our bodies and hopefully in our country and in our world, so that we can move and breathe and have our being in more...

Season 6 episode 18 rebecca j...and therapy - 1_8_26, 10.27 AM Thu, Jan 08, 2026 10:40AM • 57:28 SUMMARY KEYWORDS emotional metabolization, existential threat, destabilizing changes, social media, information overload, Venezuela crisis, racial identity, colonization, anti-blackness, white privilege, immigration policies, historical context, white supremacy, interdependence, narrative control SPEAKERS Speaker 3, Speaker 1, Speaker 2 Jenny 00:30 I think something I'm sitting with is the impossibility and the necessity of trying to metabolize what's going on in our bodies. Yeah, and it feels like this double bind where I feel like we need to do it. We need to feel rage and grief and fear and everything else that we feel, and I don't think our nervous systems have evolved to deal with this level of overwhelm and existential threat that we're experiencing, but I do believe our bodies, Yeah, need space to try to do that, yeah,yesterday, I was sitting at, I don't know what's gonna happen to people anyway, Rebecca 01:45 Pretty good. I'm okay. It like everyone. I think there's just a lot of crazy like and a lot of shifting to like, things that we could normally depend on as consistent and constant are not constant anymore. And that is like, it's very, 02:11 I don't even have a word I want to say, disconcerting, but that's too light. There's, it's very destabilizing to to watch things that were constants and norms just be ripped out from underneath. People on like, every day there's something new that used to be illegal and now it's legal, or vice versa. Every day there's like, this new thing, and then you're having to think, like, how is that going to impact me? Is it going to impact me? How is it going to impact the people that I care about and love? Yeah, Danielle 02:52 Jenny and I were just saying, like, maybe we could talk about just what's going on in the world right now, in this moment. And Jenny, I forgot how you were saying it like you were saying that we need to give our bodies space, but we also need to find a way to metabolize it so we can take action. I'm paraphrasing, but yeah, Rebecca 03:30 And I would agree, and something else that I was thinking about too is like, what do you metabolize? And how do you metabolize it? Right? Like, in terms of what's happening in Venezuela, I have people that I count very dear to me who feel like it was a very appropriate action, and and people who are very dear to me who feel like absolutely not. That's ridiculous, right? And so, and I'm aware on that particular conversation, I'm not Venezuelan. I'm not I'm very aware that I stand on the outside of that community and I'm looking in on it, going, what do I need to know in order to metabolize this? What do I not know or not understand about the people who are directly impacted by this. And so I, like, I have questions even you know about some of the stuff that I'm watching. Like, what do you metabolize and how do you come to understand it? And in a place where it's very difficult to trust your information sources and know if the source that you're you're have is reliable or accurate or or complete in it, in its detail, it feels those are reasons why, to me, it feels really hard to metabolize things i. Jenny 05:06 There's this like rule or like theory thing. I wish I could remember the name of it, but it's essentially like this, this graph that falls off, and it's like, the less you know about something, the more you think you know about it, and the more confident you are. And the more you know, the less confident you are. And it just explains so well our social media moment, and people that read like one headline and then put all these reels together and things talking about it. And on one hand, I'm grateful that we live in an age where we can get information about what's going on. And at the other end, like, you know, I know there, there's somewhere, some professor that's spent 15 years researching this and...

Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, the church, and what are we seeing in reality right now? So Jenny and I dive in a little bit about therapy. The holidays, I would don't say the words collective liberation, but it feels like that's what we're really touching on and what does that mean in this day and age? What are we finding with one another? How are we seeking help? What does it look like and what about healing? What does that mean to us? This isn't like a tell all or the answer to all the problems. We don't have any secret knowledge. Jenny and I are just talking out some of the thoughts and feeling and talking through what does it mean for us as we engage one another, engage healing spaces, what do we want for ourselves? And I think we're still figuring that out. You're just going to hear us going back and forth talking and thank you for joining. Danielle (00:10): Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, the church, and what are we seeing in reality right now? So Jenny and I dive in a little bit about therapy. The holidays, I would don't say the words collective liberation, but it feels like that's what we're really touching on and what does that mean in this day and age? What are we finding with one another? How are we seeking help? What does it look like and what about healing? What does that mean to us? This isn't like a tell all or the answer to all the problems. We don't have any secret knowledge. Jenny and I are just talking out some of the thoughts and feeling and talking through what does it mean for us as we engage one another, engage healing spaces, what do we want for ourselves? And I think we're still figuring that out. You're just going to hear us going back and forth talking and thank you for joining. Download, subscribe. So Jenny, we were just talking about therapy because we're therapists and all. And what were you saying about it? Jenny (01:17): I was saying that I'm actually pretty disillusioned with therapy and the therapy model as it stands currently and everything. I don't want to put it in the all bad bucket and say it's only bad because obviously I do it and I, I've done it myself. I am a therapist and I think there is a lot of benefit that can come from it, and I think it eventually meets this rub where it is so individualistic and it is one person usually talking to one person. And I don't think we are going to dismantle the collective systems that we need to dismantle if we are only doing individual therapy. I think we really need to reimagine what healing looks like in a collective space. Danielle (02:15): Yeah, I agree. And it's odd to talk about it both as therapists. You and I have done a lot of groups together. Has that been different? I know for me as I've reflected on groups. Yeah. I'll just say this before you answer that. As I've reflected on groups, when I first started and joined groups, it was really based on a model of there's an expert teacher, which I accepted willingly because I was used to a church or patriarchal format. There's expert teacher or teachers like plural. And then after that there's a group, and in your group there's an expert. And I viewed that person as a guru, a professional, of course, they were professional, they are professionals, but someone that might have insider knowledge about me or people in my group that would bring that to light and that knowledge alone would change me or being witnessed, which I think is important in a group setting would change me. But I think part of the linchpin was having that expert guide and now I don't know what I think about that. (03:36): I think I really appreciate the somatic experiencing model that would say my client's body is the wisest person in the room. (03:46): And so I have shifted over the years from a more directive model where I'm the wisest person in the room and I'm going to name these things and I'm going to call these things...

“It’s not enough to build a system and then exit stage left when you realize it’s broken. The ‘I’m sorry’ is not the work — it’s only the acknowledgment that work needs to be done. After the apology, you must actually do the repair. And what I see from her is the language of accountability without the actions that would demonstrate it. That’s insufficient for real change.” Danielle (01:03): Well, I mean, what's not going on? Just, I don't know. I think the government feels more and more extreme. So that's one thing I feel people are like, why is your practice so busy? I'm like, have you seen the government? It's traumatizing all my clients. Hey Jeremy. Hey Jenny. Jenny (01:33): I'm in Charlottesville, Virginia. So close to Rebecca. We're going to soon. Rebecca (01:48): Yeah, she is. Yeah, she is. And before you pull up in my driveway, I need you to doorbell dish everybody with the Trump flag and then you can come. I'm so ready That's a good question. That's a good question. I think that, I don't know that I know anybody that's ready to just say out loud. I am not a Trump supporter anymore, but I do know there's a lot of dissonance with individual policies or practices that impact somebody specifically. There's a lot of conversation about either he doesn't know what he's doing or somebody in his cabinet is incompetent in their job and their incompetency is making other people's lives harder and more difficult. Yeah, I think there's a lot of that. (03:08): Would she had my attention for about two minutes in the space where she was saying, okay, I need to rethink some of this. But then as soon as she says she was quitting Congress, I have a problem with that because you are part of the reason why we have the infrastructure that we have. You help build it and it isn't enough to me for you to build it and then say there's something wrong with it and then exit the building. You're not equally responsible for dismantling what you helped to put in place. So after that I was like, yeah, I don't know that there's any authenticity to your current set of objections, I'm not a fan of particularly when you are a person that in your public platform built something that is problematic and then you figure out that it's problematic and then you just leave. That's not sufficient for me, for you to just put on Twitter or Facebook. Oh yeah, sorry. That was a mistake. And then exit stage left Jenny (04:25): And I watched just a portion of an interview she was on recently and she was essentially called in to accountability and you are part of creating this. And she immediately lashed out at the interviewer and was like, you do this too. You're accusing me. And just went straight into defensive white lady mode and I'm just like, oh, you haven't actually learned anything from this. You're just trying to optically still look pure. That's what it seems like to me that she's wanting to do without actually admitting she has been. And she is complicit in the system that she was a really powerful force in building. Rebecca (05:12): Yeah, it reminds me of, remember that story, excuse me, a few years ago about that black guy that was birdwatching in Central Park and this white woman called the cops on him. And I watched a political analyst do some analysis of that whole engagement. And one of the things that he said, and I hate, I don't know the person name, whoever you are, if you said this and you hear this, I'm giving you credit for having said it, but one of the things that he was talking about is nobody wants you to actually give away your privilege. You actually couldn't if you tried. What I want you to do is learn how to leverage the privilege that you have for something that is good. And I think that example of that bird watching thing was like you could see, if you see the clip, you can see this woman, think about the fact that she has power in this moment and think about what she's going to do with that power. (06:20): And so she...

Danielle (00:02): Hey, Jenny, you and I usually hop on here and you're like, what's happening today? Is there a guest today? Isn't that what you told me at the beginning? And then I sent you this Instagram reel that was talking about, I feel like I've had this, my own therapeutic journey of landing with someone that was very unhelpful, going to someone that I thought was more helpful. And then coming out of that and doing some somatic work and different kind of therapeutic tools, but all in the effort for me at least, it's been like, I want to feel better. I want my body to have less pain. I want to have less PTSD. I want to have a richer life, stay present with my kids and my family. So those are the places pursuit of healing came from for me. What about you? Why did you enter therapy? Jenny (00:53): I entered therapy because of chronic state of dissociation and not feeling real, coupled with pretty incessant intrusive thoughts, kind of OCD tendencies and just fixating and paranoid about so many things that I knew even before I did therapy. I needed therapy. And I came from a world where therapy wasn't really considered very Christian. It was like, you should just pray and if you pray, God will take it away. So I actually remember I went to the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology, partly because I knew it was a requirement to get therapy. And so for the first three years I was like, yeah, yeah, my school requires me to go to therapy. And then even after I graduated, I was like, well, I'm just staying in therapy to talk about what's coming up for my clients. And then it was probably five years, six years into therapy when I was finally like, no, I've gone through some really tough things and I just actually need a space to talk about it and process it. And so trying to develop a healthier relationship with my own body and figuring out how I wanted to move with integrity through the world is a big part of my healing journey. Danielle (02:23): I remember when I went to therapy as a kid and well, it was a psychologist and him just kind of asking really direct questions and because they were so direct and pointed, just me just saying like, nah, never happened, never did that, never felt that way, et cetera, et cetera. So I feel like as I've progressed through life, I've had even a better understanding of what's healing for me, what is love life like my imagination for what things could be. But also I think I was very trusting and taught to trust authority figures, even though at the same time my own trauma kept me very distrusting, if that makes sense. So my first recommendations when I went, I was skeptical, but I was also very hopeful. This is going to help. Jenny (03:13): Yeah, totally. Yep. Yeah. And sometimes it's hard for me to know what is my homeschool brain and what is just my brain, because I always think everyone else knows more than me about pretty much everything. And so then I will do crazy amount of research about something and then Sean will be like, yeah, most people don't even know that much about that subject. And I'm like, dang it, I wasted so much effort again. But I think especially in the therapy world, when I first started therapy, and I've seen different therapists over the years, some better experiences than others, and I think I often had that same dissonance where I was like, I think more than me, but I don't want you to know more than me. And so I would feel like this wrestling of you don't know me actually. And so it created a lot of tension in my earlier days of therapy, I think. Danielle (04:16): Yeah, I didn't know too with my faith background how therapy and my faith or theological beliefs might impact therapy. So along the lines of stereotypes for race or stereotypes for gender or what do you do? I am a spiritual person, so what do I do with the thought of I do believe in angels and spiritual beings and evil and good in the world, and what do I do? How does that mix into therapy?...

Donations Resources (feminine hygiene products, and diapers, etc.) https://my.liberaforms.org/solidarity-kitchen-2 Cash Pledges (100 percent goes to families) https://my.liberaforms.org/solidarity-kitchen-3 Here is our plan: December 2, 2025 (Tuesday), 2:30 p.m. - 7 p.m., North Point Church Serve up to 400 to go meals for students, parents and/or family members in our school district who have experienced the government shut down, food insecurity, or just plain tight times, with inflation and the job market. We will cook and pack to-go containers of meals, and be ready to send those off with students and/or families and/or caregivers. We will also have cash donations to put into envelopes, gift card donations to give away to those families that need additional support recovering from the shutdown or SNAP break. If folks would like to give to this, we are in process of setting up a secure format for it, in collaboration. TRANSCRIPTS Danielle (00:00): Cut it off. I just is so swamped with trying to respond to people's texts and calls. We have the whole system going, but I can explain more when we talk. It's just Jenny (00:12): Okay. Oh my gosh. Yeah. We can do kind of a short one if that helps, or whatever feels supportive for you. I'm doing good. I'm thinking about the American Academy of Religions Conference this weekend. It kicks off tonight and I'll be presenting on my panel tomorrow, so I've been thinking about that. Yeah, I feel nervous, but I feel good. I feel really supported by the Purity Culture Research Collective and the colleagues and friends that I have there. So I mostly excited just to see folks coming in from all over, so I think it'll be a fun time. Danielle (01:02): Do you feel like you're going to be able to say what you want to say in the way you want to say it? Jenny (01:08): I think so. I keep reading over it again and again and tweaking it. It's hard to say what you want to say in five minutes, but, Oh goodness. I think there's eight of us. Eight or nine, I can't remember exactly. So we each get five minutes, but then it opens up into a q and a and sort of a discussion, so I'll have more time to expand on what I'm trying to say and it'll be fun to weave it together with other people. Danielle (01:42): It's interesting. I feel like we're all in these different places. We are physically sometimes, but even if we're in the same city and we're doing different things towards similar goals, that really strikes me. It's one reason I get excited about what you're doing. Oh, yeah, that's right. Well, I think I wrote in an email to friends to get it started. Basically what happened is we were at a band concert a month ago and it was the government shutdown, and my kids were talking about it and some of their classmates not having paychecks, their parents not having paychecks because we live in Kitsap County, and so there are two military, well, maybe there's three military bases in the area, so a lot of government funded work employees, the military obviously. And then also in our school district, I became aware that almost 30% of our students are either on SNAP or free and reduced lunch. So if you add that plus the level of the population of kids in our schools, either with parents in the military or in government position jobs, that's a lot of kids. And so I was like, oh, shit, what are we going to do? And I thought to myself, I was like, how can you not get on board with feeding kids? Really? They're innocent, they're young. I mean, we have plenty of riches in our county, in our country actually to do this should not be a thing. So that's kind of how it got started. Well, now it's called the Solidarity Kitchen. I'm like one member. There's many members of the Solidarity Kitchen, and we try to make decisions collaboratively. Some of us are better at some things like I'm not going to, I did take my food handlers permit test and passed it, by the way, today. Good job. I'm not going to be in...

Bio: Jenny - Co-Host Podcast (er): I am Jenny! (She/Her) MACP, LMHC I am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Somatic Experiencing® Practitioner, Certified Yoga Teacher, and an Approved Supervisor in the state of Washington. I have spent over a decade researching the ways in which the body can heal from trauma through movement and connection. I have come to see that our bodies know what they need. By approaching our body with curiosity we can begin to listen to the innate wisdom our body has to teach us. And that is where the magic happens! I was raised within fundamentalist Christianity. I have been, and am still on my own journey of healing from religious trauma and religious sexual shame (as well as consistently engaging my entanglement with white saviorism). I am a white, straight, able-bodied, cis woman. I recognize the power and privilege this affords me socially, and I am committed to understanding my bias’ and privilege in the work that I do. I am LGBTQIA+ affirming and actively engage critical race theory and consultation to see a better way forward that honors all bodies of various sizes, races, ability, religion, gender, and sexuality. I am immensely grateful for the teachers, healers, therapists, and friends (and of course my husband and dog!) for the healing I have been offered. I strive to pay it forward with my clients and students. Few things make me happier than seeing people live freely in their bodies from the inside out! Danielle (00:10): Welcome to the Arise Podcast with my colleague Jenny McGrath and I today Jenny's going to read a part of a presentation she's giving in a week, and I hope you really listen in The political times are heavy and the news about Epstein has been triggering for so many, including Jenny and myself. I hope as you listen, you find yourself somewhere in the conversation and if you don't, I hope that you can find yourself with someone else in your close sphere of influence. These conversations aren't perfect. We can't resolve it at the end. We don't often know what we need, so I hope as you listen along that you join us, you join us and you reach out for connection in your community with friends, people that you trust, people that you know can hold your story. And if you don't have any of those people that maybe you can find the energy and the time and the internal resources to reach out. You also may find yourself activated during this conversation. You may find yourself triggered and so this is a notice that if you feel that that is a possibility and you need to take a break and not listen to this episode, that's okay. Be gentle and kind with yourself and if you feel like you want to keep listening, have some self-care and some ways of connecting with others in place, go ahead and listen in. Hey Jenny, I'd love to hear a bit about your presentation if you don't even mind giving us what you got. Jenny (01:41): Yeah, absolutely. I am very honored. I am going to be on a panel entitled Beyond Abstinence Only Purity Culture in Today's Political Moment, and this is for the American Academy of Religion. And so I am talking about, well, yeah, I think I'll just read a very rough draft version of my remarks. I will give a disclaimer, I've only gone over it once so far, maybe twice, so it will shift before I present it, but I'm actually looking forward to talking about it with you because I think that will help me figure out how I want to change it. I think it'll probably just be a three to five minute read if that even Okay. Alright. I to look at the current political moment in the US and try to extract meaning and orientation from purity culture is essential, but if we only focus on purity culture in the us, we are naval gazing and missing a vital aspect of the project that is purity culture. It is no doubt an imperialist project. White women serving as missionaries have been foot soldiers for since Manifest Destiny and the creation of residential schools in North America and...

Mary Lovell is a queer grassroots organizer, visual artist, and activist who has been fighting oil and gas infrastructure and for social justice for their adult life - living up in the Kitsap Penninsula they are working on their first book and love working with people to build power in their communities Welcome to the Arise podcast. This is episode 12, conversations on Reality. And today we're touching on organizing and what does it mean to organize? How do we organize? And we talk to a seasoned organizer, Mary Lavelle. And so Mary is a queer, grassroots organizer, visual artist and activist who has been fighting oil and gas infrastructure and fighting for social justice in their adult life. Living in the Kitsap Peninsula. They're working on their first book and love working with people to build power in their communities. Join us. I hope you stay curious and we continue the dialogue. Danielle (00:02): Okay, Mary, it's so great to have you today. Just want to hear a little bit about who you are, where you come from, how did you land? I know I met you in Kitsap County. Are you originally from here? Yeah. Just take it Mary (00:15): Away. Yeah. So my name is Mary Lovel. I use she or they pronouns and I live in Washington State in Kitsap County. And then I have been organizing, I met Danielle through organizing, but I've spent most of my life organizing against oil and gas pipelines. I grew up in Washington state and then I moved up to Canada where there was a major oil pipeline crossing through where I was living. And so that got me engaged in social justice movements. That's the Transmountain pipeline, which it was eventually built, but we delayed it by a decade through a ton of different organizing, combination of lawsuits and direct action and all sorts of different tactics. And so I got to try and learn a lot of different things through that. And then now I'm living in Washington state and do a lot of different social justice bits and bobs of organizing, but mostly I'm focused on stopping. There's a major gas build out in Texas and Louisiana, and so I've been working with communities down there on pressuring financiers behind those oil and gas pipelines and major gas export. But all that to say, it's also like everyone is getting attacked on all sides. So I see it as a very intersectional fight of so many communities are being impacted by ice and the rise of the police state becoming even more prolific and surveillance becoming more prolific and all the things. So I see it as one little niche in a much larger fight. Yeah, Yeah, totally. I think when I moved up to Canada, I was just finished high school, was moving up for college, had been going to some of the anti-war marches that were happening at the time, but was very much along for the ride, was like, oh, I'll go to big stuff. But it was more like if there was a student walkout or someone else was organizing people. And then when I moved up to Canada, I just saw the history of the nation state there in a totally different way. I started learning about colonialism and understanding that the land that I had moved to was unseated Tu Squamish and Musqueam land, and started learning also about how resource extraction and indigenous rights went hand in hand. I think in general, in the Pacific Northwest and Coast Salish territories, the presence of indigenous communities is really a lot more visible than other parts of North America because of the timelines of colonization. (03:29): But basically when I moved and had a fresh set of eyes, I was seeing the major marginalization of indigenous communities in Canada and the way that racism was showing up against indigenous communities there and just the racial demographics are really different in Canada. And so then I was just seeing the impacts of that in just a new way, and it was just frankly really startling. It's the sheer number of people that are forced to be houseless and the disproportionate impacts on especially...

Guest Bio: Renee Kylestewa Begay is from the Pueblo of Zuni in Southwest New Mexico. She is a mother to three daughters and married to high school sweetheart Donnie Begay. During her undergrad, she founded the Nations movement—a national ministry... Good morning. It's October 30th, 2025. Can you believe it? So I'm releasing these videos. Today's videos on resilience. Four distinct cultures coming at you. Jenny McGrath. Me, Danielle, my friend Renee Begay from New Mexico and Rebecca Wheeler, Walston. Tune in, listen to the distinctly different places we're coming from and how we're each thinking about resilience. And then find a way that that impacts you and your own community and you can create more resilience, more generosity, more connection to one another. It's what we need in this moment. Oh, and this is The Arise Podcast, and it's online. If you want to download, listen to it. There you can as well. Renee Begay (00:14): Okay, cool. Okay, so for those watching my introduction, I'll do it in my language. So my name is Renee Bega. I just spoke in my language, which is I'm from the Pueblo of Zuni tribe in Southwest New Mexico, and I shared the way that we relate to one another. So you share the clan system that you're from. So being a matrilineal society, we belong to our, there's lineage and then we are a child of our father's side of the family. And so I belong to the Sandhill Crane clan as my mom is my grandma. And then my daughters are Sandhill Crane, and then I'm a child of the Eagle Clan, which is my dad's side. So if I do introduce myself in Zuni and I say these clans, then people know, oh, okay, you're from this family, or I'm, or if I meet others that are probably Child of Crane, then I know that I have responsibility toward them. We figure out responsibility toward each other in the community and stuff, who's related to all those things. Yeah. And here in New Mexico, there are 19 Pueblo tribes, two to three Apache tribes, and then one Navajo nation tribe. So there's a large population of indigenous tribes here in New Mexico. So grateful and glad to be here. (02:22): Yeah. I guess I can answer your question about what comes to mind with just the word resilience, but even you saying a d Los Muertos, for me that was like, oh, that's self-determination, something that you practice to keep it going, to remember all those things. And then when you mentioned the family, Jenny, I was like, I think I did watch it and I looked on my phone to go look for it, and I was like, oh yeah, I remember watching that. I have a really short-term memory with books or things that I watch. I don't remember exactly details, but I know how I felt. And I know when I was watching that show, I was just like, whoa, this is crazy. (03:12): So yes, I remember watching that docuseries. And then I think Rebecca, when you're talking about, I was thinking through resilience feels like this vacillation between different levels, levels of the individual in relation to the community, how much do we participate in self discovery, self-determination, all those things, but then also connect it to community. How do we continue to do that as a community to stay resilient or keep practicing what we've been taught? But then also generationally too, I think that every generation has to figure out based on their experience in this modern world, what to do with the information and the knowledge that is given to us, and then how to kind of encourage the next generation too. So I was just thinking of all those scenes when I was listening to you guys. Rebecca (04:25): Yeah, when you said the generational thing that each generation has to decide what to do with the information given to them. This past weekend in the last week or so was that second New Kings march, and there's some conversation about the fact that it was overwhelmingly white and in my community that conversation has been, we weren't there. And what does that mean, right? Or the noticing...

BIO: Sandra Van Opstal EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CO-FOUNDER OF CHASING JUSTICE Sandra Maria Van Opstal, a second-generation Latina, is Co-Founder and Executive Director of Chasing Justice, a movement led by people of color to mobilize a lifestyle of faith and justice . She is an international speaker, author, and activist, recognized for her courageous work in pursuing justice and disrupting oppressive systems within the church. As a global prophetic voice and an active community member on the west-side of Chicago, Sandra’s initiatives in holistic justice equip communities around the world to practice biblical solidarity and mutuality within various social and cultural locations. https://chasingjustice.com/sandra-van-opstal/ Danielle (00:09): good afternoon, y'all. I have a second video coming to you from my dear friend and colleague in Chicago, Humboldt Park area, a faith leader there that collaborates with the different faith communities in the area. And she's going to talk about some ways she's personally affected by what's happening by the invasion there and how you can think about things, how you might get involved. I hope you'll join me in this conversation and honor yourself. Stay curious, honor, humanity, get involved. Take collective action. Talk to your own neighbor. Let's start caring really well for one another. Oh wow. Sandra, you know me. This is Jenny McGrath. This is my colleague. She's a bible nut. She wrote out the Bible How many times? Like scripture nut and a researcher, a therapist and purity culture, kind of like Survivor, but did a lot of work with women around that. And we talk a lot about race and current events. And I restarted my podcast and I asked Jenny if she'd want to join me. She has a great love for justice and humans and making a difference. So that's kind of how Jenny joined up with me. Right. Anything else you want to say? Sandra, I saw your post on social media and I was like, I could do that. I could contribute to that. And so that's what I'm here to do. Want to hear about your experience. What does resilience look like for you all over there? What do you need from us? How can we be a part of what's happening in Chicago from wherever we are? And if there's practical needs or things you want to share here, we can also send those out. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, where you're located in Chicago, and just a little bit even about your family, if you're willing? Sandra (01:40): Yeah, sure. So it's great to be with you guys. I'm Sandra Van Opal and I'm here on the west side of Chicago in a neighborhood called Humble Park. It's if you see in the news with all that's happening, it's the humble Hermosa, Avondale kind of zone of the ice crackdown. Well, let's not call it a crackdown. The ice invasion (02:06): Here in Chicago. I am the daughter of immigrants, so my mom is from Columbia. My father was from Argentina. They came to live in Chicago when they were in their twenties and thirties. They met in English class, so they were taking TOEFL exams, which is an exam you take in order to enter into college and schooling here in the US to show your language proficiency. And so they met learning English and the rest is history. I grew up here. I've lived here my whole life. I'm raising my family here. I'm married. I have two kids that just turned 11, so they're in fifth grade and sixth grade. And the school that they go to is a primarily immigrant school immersion, Spanish immersion. So it's a school where you take classes basically 90% in Spanish when you start and you move every year a little bit more English until you graduate when you're 50 50. (03:03): And so the school context they've been in has been receiving a lot of new neighbors, a lot of new classmates. And for that reason, actually most of their classes are still almost fully in Spanish, so they should probably be 60 40 right now. But I think a lot of their curriculum is still in Spanish,...

Vanessa Ogaldez, LAMFT SPECIALTIES: Trauma Couples Communication Identity/Self Acceptance https://www.dcctherapy.com/vanessa-ogaldez-lamft From Her website: Maybe you have said something like, “What else can I do?” and it is possible you feel stuck or heartbroken because you can’t seem to connect with your partner as you want or used to. Whether or not you’re in a relationship and you have experienced trauma, hurtful arguments, or life changes that have brought on disconnection in your relationships, there is a sense of loss and heartache. You may find yourself in “robot mode” just going through your daily tasks, causing you to eventually disconnect from others, only to continue the cycle of miscommunication and loneliness. Perhaps you feel misunderstood, and you compensate by being helpful to everyone else while you yearn for true intimacy and friendships. Sometimes you feel there are so many experiences that have contributed to your pain and suffering that you don’t know where to start. There are Cultural norms you may feel that not everyone can understand and therapy is not one of those Cultural norms. I believe therapy can be a place of safety, healing, and self-discovery. As a therapist, my focus is to support you and your goals in life and relationships. I am committed to you building deep communications, connections and feeling secure in the ability to share your emotions. Danielle (00:06): Good morning. I just had the privilege and honor of interviewing my colleague, another therapist and mental health counselor in Chicago, Vanessa Les, and she is located right in the midst of Chicago with an eye and a view out of her office towards what's happening with ICE and immigration raids. I want to encourage you to listen into this episode of the Arise Podcast, firsthand witness accounts and what is it actually like to try to engage in a healing process when the trauma may be committed right before someone comes in the office. We know that's a possibility and right after they leave the office, not suggesting that it's right outside the door, but essentially that the world in which we are living is not as hopeful and as Mary as we would like to think, I am sad and deeply disturbed and also very hopeful that we share this power inside of ourselves. (01:10): It's based on nonviolence and care and love for neighbor, and that is why Vanessa and I connected. It's not because we're neighbors in the sense of I live next door to her in Chicago and she lives next door to me in Washington. We're neighbors because as Latinas in this world, we have a sense of great solidarity in this fight for ourselves, for our families, for our clients, to live in a world where there's freedom, expression, liberation, and a movement towards justice and away from systems and oppression that want to literally drag us into the pit of hell. We're here to say no. We're here to stand beside one another in solidarity and do that together. I hope you join us in this conversation and I hope you find your way to jump in and offer your actual physical resources, whether it's money, whether it's walking, whether it's calling a friend, whether it's paying for someone's mental health therapy, whether it's sharing a meal with someone, sharing a coffee with someone. All these things, they're just different kinds of things that we can do, and that's not an exhaustive list. (02:28): I love my neighbor. I even want to talk to the people that don't agree with me, and I believe Vanessa feels the same way. And so this episode means a lot to me. It's very important that we pay attention to what's happening and we ground ourselves in the reality and the experiences of black and brown bodies, and we don't attempt to make them prove over and over and over what we can actually see and investigate with our own eyes. Join in. Hey, welcome Vanessa. I've only met you once in person and we follow each other online, but part of the instigation for the conversation is a...

BIO: The Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a poet, practical theologian, and itinerant prophet for a coming undivided “kin-dom.” She is the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, named for her work and witness and an associate editor at Good Faith Media. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church. Her writings have been featured in Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Free Black Thought, Word & Way, Plough, Baptist News Global and Nurturing Faith Journal among others. She is a frequent guest on podcasts and has her own. The Raceless Gospel podcast takes her listeners to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion, and politics. Starlette is also an activist who bears witness against police brutality and most recently the cultural erasure of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C. It was erected in memory of the 2020 protests that brought the world together through this shared declaration of somebodiness after the gruesome murder of George Perry Floyd, Jr. Her act of resistance caught the attention of the Associated Press. An image of her reclaiming the rubble went viral and in May, she was featured in a CNN article. Starlette has spoken before the World Council of Churches North America and the United Methodist Church’s Council of Bishops on the color- coded caste system of race and its abolition. She has also authored and presented papers to the members of the Baptist World Alliance in Zurich, Switzerland and Nassau, Bahamas to this end. She has cast a vision for the future of religion at the National Museum of African American History and Culture’s “Forward Conference: Religions Envisioning Change.” Her paper was titled “Press Forward: A Raceless Gospel for Ex- Colored People Who Have Lost Faith in White Supremacy.” She has lectured at The Queen’s Foundation in Birmingham, U.K. on a baptismal pedagogy for antiracist theological education, leadership and ministries. Starlette’s research interests have been supported by the Louisville Institute and the Lilly Foundation. Examining the work of the Reverend Dr. Clarence Jordan, whose farm turned “demonstration plot” in Americus, Georgia refused to agree to the social arrangements of segregation because of his Christian convictions, Starlette now takes this dirt to the church. Her thesis is titled, “Afraid of Koinonia: How life on this farm reveals the fear of Christian community.” A full circle moment, she was recently invited to write the introduction to Jordan’s newest collection of writings, The Inconvenient Gospel: A Southern Prophet Tackles War, Wealth, Race and Religion. Starlette is a member of the Christian Community Development Association, the Peace & Justice Studies Association, and the Koinonia Advisory Council. A womanist in ministry, she has served as a pastor as well as a denominational leader. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette holds degrees from Buffalo State College, Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School and Wesley Theological Seminary. Last year, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Sacred Theology for her work and witness as a public theologian from Wayland Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of "Take Me to the Water": The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church and a contributing author of the book Faith Forward: A Dialogue on Children, Youth & a New Kind of Christianity. Jenny I was just saying that I've been thinking a lot about the distinction between Christianity and Christian supremacy and Christian nationalism, and I have been researching Christian nationalism for probably about five or six years now. And one of my introductions to the concept of it was a book that's based on a documentary that's based on a book called Constantine Sword. And it talked about how prior to Constantine, Christians had the image of fish and life and...