The Michael Shermer Show

Why does religion still dominate American politics when so many other wealthy democracies secularized long ago? In this episode, Michael Shermer talks with historian Matthew Avery Sutton about the long relationship between Christianity and American power. From the Puritans to Lincoln, from the Scopes trial to the Religious Right, from slavery to same-sex marriage, this conversation tracks how religious belief has shaped the country, and how politics keeps reshaping religion in return. Matthew Avery Sutton is the Claudius O. and Mary Johnson Distinguished Professor and chair of the Department of History at Washington State University. His new book is Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity.

How does something living emerge from something that isn’t? In this episode, Lee Cronin pushes the question back even further: before cells, before DNA, before biology as we usually think of it, what kind of process could make matter start organizing itself into something alive? He and Michael Shermer get into assembly theory, RNA, autocatalysis, and the deeper puzzle of whether causation and selection may already be at work long before the first organism appears. The conversation also branches into consciousness, free will, and the possibility that life may be widespread in the universe, even if it looks nothing like life on Earth. Lee Cronin is Regius Professor of Chemistry at the University of Glasgow, Scotland, where he leads one of the world’s largest multidisciplinary chemistry research groups. He has raised more than $35 million in grant funding, with current research income of $15 million, and has authored more than 350 peer-reviewed papers, including recent work published in Nature, Science, and PNAS. He and his team are trying to make artificial life forms, find alien life, explore the digitization of chemistry, understand how information can be encoded into chemicals and construct chemical computers.

On Easter Sunday, Michael asks whether the resurrection should be understood as history, myth, or something deeper.

Fewer people are having sex, fewer are forming lasting relationships, and many feel more isolated than ever. Why? Michael Shermer sits down with neuroscientist and author Debra Soh to discuss her new book Sextinction: The Decline of Sex and the Future of Intimacy. They talk about the so-called sex recession, why modern dating feels so broken, and how social media, pornography, AI companions, and changing expectations between men and women are reshaping intimacy. The discussion also touches on Gen Z mental health, dating apps, the manosphere, marriage, and the broader social consequences of a culture that increasingly substitutes screens for real human connection. Debra Soh is a neuroscientist who specializes in human sexuality and biological explanations for behavior. She received her PhD from York University in Toronto and worked as a scientific researcher for eleven years. As a journalist, Soh writes about technology, health, and the politicization of science.

What do gaslighting, bullying, cults, and coercion have in common? In this episode, Michael Shermer speaks with Jennifer Fraser about the psychology and neuroscience of manipulation, the recurring structure of abuse cultures, and the way authority can distort perception. Their discussion looks at fear, humiliation, retaliation, favoritism, empathy deficits, and the warning signs that distinguish legitimate leadership from coercive control across schools, workplaces, sports, relationships, and institutions. Jennifer Fraser is the author of four books and an international expert on bullying and abuse. Her latest book is The Gaslit Brain: Protect Your Brain from the Lies of Bullying, Gaslighting, and Institutional Complicity.

How much of what we call “basic morality” is actually inherited from Christianity? Bart Ehrman joins Michael Shermer for a wide-ranging conversation about one of the biggest moral questions in history: why do we feel obligated to care for strangers at all? Drawing from his new book Love Thy Stranger, Ehrman argues that the idea of helping people outside your tribe, family, or nation was not a moral given in the ancient world. Greek and Roman ethics made room for loyalty, friendship, and civic duty, but not for radical concern for the outsider. He makes the case that Jesus changed that moral equation—and that his teachings still shape the modern West, including many people who no longer consider themselves religious. The conversation also covers Ehrman’s own path from evangelical Christianity to agnostic atheism, the problem of suffering, whether pure altruism really exists, and the difference between forgiveness and atonement. Bart Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and The New York Times bestselling author of Misquoting Jesus and How Jesus Became God. His new book is Love Thy Stranger: How Jesus Transformed Our Moral Conscience.

Michael Shermer sits down with novelist and essayist Lionel Shriver for a wide-ranging conversation about what happens when old political labels stop making sense. Shriver reflects on the strange moral and political confusions that now shape debates over immigration, identity, religion, and the meaning of tolerance. They discuss why immigration has become, in Shriver’s view, the central political issue of this century; why support for illiberal ideas is often framed as compassion; why the culture of fiction and publishing has grown more timid; and how writers can still engage seriously with divisive subjects without surrendering either honesty or nuance. The conversation also turns personal: Shriver’s religious upbringing, her own personal experiences with immigration, and reflections on the diminishing cultural authority of the novelist. Lionel Shriver is an author and journalist, a graduate of Columbia University, and a columnist for The Spectator. Her fiction confronts some of the defining issues of modern life: school shootings in We Need to Talk About Kevin, the cost of healthcare in So Much for That, economic instability in The Mandibles, aging and suicide in Should We Stay or Should We Go, and low intelligence and DEI in Mania. Her latest novel, A Better Life, takes up immigration from the perspective of the host.

Zion Lights used to be deep inside the environmental movement: protests, arrests, road blockades, the whole thing. Then she started looking closely at the evidence around nuclear power and found that much of what she’d been told about energy, risk, and climate solutions didn’t hold up. In this conversation with Michael Shermer, she explains why anti-nuclear politics has done real damage, and why reliable energy matters far beyond moral posturing. She speaks from experience about Extinction Rebellion, energy policy in Germany and France, fear around Fukushima and Chernobyl, energy poverty, overpopulation, and why modern environmentalism so often attacks the very technologies that could help both people and the planet. Zion Lights is a British science communicator, writer, author, and former environmental activist known for her pivot to advocacy of evidence-based environmental policy, particularly her support for nuclear energy as a tool for decarbonisation. She is a prominent voice in debates about climate change, energy policy, humanism, and the role of scientific reasoning in public discourse. Her new book is Energy is Life: Why Environmentalism Went Nuclear.

Jeremy Jones joins Michael Shermer to talk about DOGE AI, government fraud, and the strange reality that some of the biggest problems in public life are both widely known and somehow never fixed. Jones explains how his team uses AI to sort through enormous government datasets, isolate suspicious billing patterns, and surface waste at a scale that would be almost impossible to catch by hand. They also get into Jones’s own background—growing up in Luxembourg, landing in Chicago, and seeing firsthand how different systems shape people’s lives—before moving into a broader argument about immigration, education, bureaucracy, media, and why trust in institutions is falling. It’s a blunt conversation, and at times a confrontational one, about fraud, incentives, and what happens when everybody knows something is broken but nobody seems able, or willing, to stop it. Jeremy Jones is the co-founder of Rhetor, an AI-powered intelligence and strategy company for campaigns, advocacy orgs, and government departments. Rhetor began with DOGEai, the viral autonomous AI-powered government watchdog on X that has drawn engagement from The White House, Elon Musk, and members of Congress, which was created as a public good and out of Rhetor’s commitment to restore accountability in the ruling class.

Why do some world-changing ideas get ignored, attacked, or buried for years before anyone takes them seriously? Michael Shermer sits down with The Economist science correspondent Matt Kaplan to discuss the scientists who got there first and paid the price. They talk about why institutions resist new ideas, why careers can depend on defending the status quo, and why being right is often not enough. They discuss figures like Katalin Karikó, whose work on mRNA was dismissed long before it helped transform modern medicine, and Oliver Wendell Holmes, who faced fierce backlash for arguing that doctors themselves were spreading deadly infections. This is a fascinating look at what happens when evidence collides with ego, reputation, and scientific orthodoxy. It’s also a conversation about truth, status, intellectual courage, and the deeply human side of science. Matt Kaplan is a science correspondent at The Economist. He has written about everything from paleontology and parasites to virology and viticulture over the course of two decades. His new book is I Told You So! Scientists Who Were Ridiculed, Exiled, and Imprisoned for Being Right.

Michael Shermer responds to a remarkable letter from a group of eighth graders at a Christian school in Texas who say they’ve been praying for him and want to talk about Christianity, Jesus, and the Bible.

For decades, developmental psychologist Jay Belsky has focused on one of the biggest questions in human development: how do early experiences shape the lives we go on to live? In this conversation with Michael Shermer, he explains why childhood adversity can leave deep marks, why some children are far more affected by experience than others, and why averages often hide the most important part of the story. Belsky revisits the old nature-versus-nurture debate, but pushes past the usual framing. His argument is not that childhood determines everything in some simple, uniform way. It’s that children differ in how developmentally “plastic” they are. The same divorce, the same stress, the same family conflict, or the same support can have very different effects depending on the child. The discussion moves through attachment theory, father absence, family conflict, puberty, epigenetics, and the evolutionary logic of development. Belsky also returns to one of his central ideas: the children who are most vulnerable under harsh conditions may also be the ones most likely to flourish when conditions improve. That insight has major implications for how we think about parenting, intervention, and social policy. Jay Belsky is a developmental psychologist and one of the field’s most influential and highly cited researchers. Over a four-decade career at Penn State, the University of London, and UC Davis, he studied how early-life experience shapes attachment, family relationships, and child development. His new book is The Nature of Nurture: Rethinking How Childhood Adversity Shapes Development.

Publishing likes to imagine itself as a marketplace of ideas with a strong immune system: good arguments win, bad ones fade, and editors act as principled gatekeepers. In practice, it’s also an industry with thin margins, status anxiety, and a constant fear of reputational damage. Adam Szetela argues that a lot of what gets called “cancel culture” in books is better understood as risk management under social media conditions. Outrage compresses timelines, collapses context, and turns interpretation into a moral referendum. A handful of motivated actors can create the impression of a mass consensus—and once that perception takes hold, institutions often move first and ask questions later. We talk about how “sensitivity reading” functions in this environment: sometimes as thoughtful critique, sometimes as a liability shield, and sometimes as a tool that quietly shifts a book’s meaning toward whatever ideology currently feels safest. The result is a distributed system of incentives that nudges publishers toward caution, self-censorship, and blandness … while occasionally rewarding controversy because conflict drives attention. This conversation doesn’t treat every public criticism as illegitimate, or every publisher decision as cowardice. The point is to map the machinery: how reputations get threatened, how moral language expands, why apologies can backfire, and why the incentives often select for the loudest framing over the most accurate one. Adam Szetela earned his PhD in English from the Department of Literatures at Cornell University. Before Cornell, he was a visiting fellow in the Program on the Study of Capitalism at Harvard University. He writes for The Washington Post, The Guardian, Newsweek, and other publications. Among other places, his writing has been honored by the Society for Features Journalism. His new book is That Book Is Dangerous! How Moral Panic, Social Media, and the Culture Wars Are Remaking Publishing.

Documentary filmmaker Marcie Hume (BBC alum; Magicians: Life in the Impossible) joins Michael Shermer to talk about her new verité film Corey Feldman vs. the World—shot over a decade, starting in the “Corey’s Angels” era and following a tour that unravels in real time. It goes to some uncomfortable places: how celebrity can create cult-ish dynamics (not just with fans, but with the people working around them as well), how “truth” becomes a slogan—used to frame criticism as persecution and to keep tight control of the story, and how living on camera can turn real life into performance where every moment becomes part of the persona. Then the story folds back on itself—the release of Marcie’s film becomes its own drama, with last-minute legal threats and a cease-and-desist landing right before the premiere. Marcie Hume is a documentary filmmaker, television executive, and immersive experience creator focused on how people manufacture meaning under pressure, while the story is still being written. A BBC alumna, she has originated and executive produced unscripted series for the BBC, Channel 4, Discovery, National Geographic, and A&E. Her feature documentaries Hood to Coast, Magicians: Life in the Impossible, and Corey Feldman vs. the World trace endurance, obsession, and the narratives people construct to live with extraordinary choices. Corey Feldman vs. the World is currently available to rent or buy on YouTube, Google, or Apple, even though Corey is still trying to have it removed. Watch the trailer Rent the film

Christopher Beha grew up Catholic in Manhattan, walked away during the New Atheist era, and spent years trying to build a secular worldview sturdy enough to live inside. It didn’t hold. So he kept reading—Hume, Kant, Russell, the existentialists—and kept chasing the questions that don’t let you sleep: what counts as evidence, what belief even is, and what you do when reason can’t answer the things you still have to decide. In this conversation with Michael Shermer, Beha makes a case that skepticism and belief aren’t enemies—and that some debates go nowhere because people are arguing about the “branches” while standing on totally different foundations. Christopher Beha is the former editor of Harper’s Magazine and the author of four previous books, including The Index of Self-Destructive Acts, which was nominated for the 2020 National Book Award. His new book is Why I Am Not an Atheist: The Confessions of a Skeptical Believer.

Michael Shermer recounts the moment he discovered his name in the Jeffrey Epstein files and uses it as a jumping-off point to tell a few unforgettable stories about con men he’s encountered over the years, and how their tactics work.

Why do people risk everything for love but treat sex like it’s no big deal? Why is intimacy the most expensive thing in a brothel? And why do jealousy, infidelity, and heartbreak push otherwise rational people into behavior they later can’t explain? Evolutionary biologist and sex researcher Justin Garcia, executive director of the Kinsey Institute and author of The Intimate Animal, joins Michael Shermer for a candid conversation about the biology of sex, the evolutionary logic of pair bonding, and why love—not lust—is what often pushes people past the point of reason. Justin R. Garcia is an evolutionary biologist and sex researcher. He is Executive Director & Senior Scientist at the Kinsey Institute. He is also the Scientific Advisor to Match Group and Match.com, where he provides expertise to the company’s annual Singles in America study. His research has been featured in outlets like The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, TIME, Cosmopolitan, and Vanity Fair. His new book is The Intimate Animal.

In this episode, Michael Shermer walks through the core ideas behind his new book Truth: What It Is, How to Find It, and Why It Still Matters, breaking down how humans confuse meaning with reality, stories with facts, and confidence with correctness. He also explains why changing your mind is a strength, not a flaw; why extraordinary claims really do require extraordinary evidence; and why “just asking questions” isn’t as innocent as it sounds. BUY THE BOOK Amazon Shop Skeptic (autographed) “Michael Shermer reminds us that the search for truth is not a luxury, but a necessity. This book is a powerful argument for why reality matters and a practical toolkit for how to find it.” ―Sabine Hossenfelder “Michael Shermer has a fine record as a long-time crusader for evidenced rationality. This fascinating and wide-ranging book should further enhance his impact on current controversies.” ―Lord Martin Rees “Michael Shermer is one of our most influential intellectuals. Truth lances the myth of truth’s subjectivity, arguing (provocatively) that truth can generate moral absolutes. This stimulating, excellent book inspires you to spread the word that the Earth is not flat and that truth matters.” ―Robert Sapolsky “Michael Shermer has spent his career grappling with the slipperiest word in our language: truth. As someone who knows firsthand what happens when truth gets lost in noise and narrative, I’m grateful for Shermer’s clear-eyed insistence that truth is not only real, but necessary.” ―Amanda Knox “Michael Shermer pulls no punches: in a world where opinion too often masquerades as fact, he dismantles delusion and arms us with the tools to meet reality head-on.” ―Brian Greene

In this solo episode of The Michael Shermer Show, Michael Shermer responds to the shooting of Alex Pretti, a 37-year-old healthcare worker who was killed by federal immigration agents in Minneapolis during protests over enforcement of immigration law. As political debate intensifies, Shermer asks a tough question that most discussions are avoiding: What role does personal responsibility play in emotionally charged, high-risk situations? He separates the facts we can reasonably assert from what remains uncertain and explains why scrutinizing frame-by-frame video misses something essential about how humans behave under stress and fear.

Michael Shermer sits down with attorney and bestselling author Kent Heckenlively for a tense, thoughtful, and surprisingly cordial conversation about UFOs, government secrecy, and the idea of “catastrophic disclosure.” Heckenlively argues that something real is being hidden. Not necessarily aliens, but information powerful enough to disrupt energy markets, military spending, and political authority. But beyond stories and secondhand testimony, where is the kind of evidence that would settle the question once and for all? The episode takes up congressional hearings, whistleblowers, classified briefings, Cold War secrecy, optical illusions, advanced military technology, and why, after nearly 80 years, the UFO story continues to produce more questions than answers. Kent Heckenlively is an attorney, science teacher, and New York Times bestselling author. His books have covered such topics as scientific fraud, bias at Google, Facebook, and CNN, promising medical therapies, as well as behind-the-scenes looks into the COVID-19 Task Force. His books have sold more than half a million copies. His new book is CATASTROPHIC DISCLOSURE: The Deep State, Aliens, and the Truth.