Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, Holly Chen—routesetter, journalist, and contributing writer at CBJ—hosts Kasia Pietras, a legendary, OG routesetter. Kasia has been climbing since 1996 and setting since 2003. She has set for almost 100 competitions—91 to be exact—at the time of recording. Kasia is a USAC Level 4 routesetter, SPI and CWI certified, teaches USAC Setting Clinics on occasion, and is currently working at Kilter Grips in Frederick, Colorado. She’s also among the first cohorts of setters who saw a routesetting transition from unpaid volunteer work to a fully-fledged profession. Holly and Kasia’s conversation begins with a walk down memory lane, then covers conflicts that can arise between routesetting teams and gym management, insider knowledge, setter burnout, and more. Thank you Trango and Rock Gym Pro for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Javier Díaz co-founded a gym, Sierra Elevation, in Mexico with business partner Adrian Hovelman in 2021. Two years later, Sierra Elevation merged with Adamanta, the leading climbing gym chain in Mexico. Packed into that multi-year period was an on-the-ground education for Díaz, as he learned what it took to operate a gym in Mexico, realized the advantages of partnering with a larger entity, and borrowed ideas and concepts from gyms that he had visited in the United States. In this episode of the CBJ podcast, Díaz discusses that backstory, while providing a brief history of Mexico’s gym scene and giving some valuable assessments of Mexico’s climbing gym culture. He also explains why he thinks Mexico’s climbing gym industry is on the cusp of a veritable boom period and about to “go big.” Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Joining Holly Chen on the Impact Driver podcast this week is Claire Kawainui Miller, a crew leader at Touchstone Climbing, USAC Level 2 Routesetter, climbing movement enthusiast and loving mother of two cats. Claire and Holly’s simultaneously fun and serious conversation meanders from gender inequities to ladder fiascos and covers Claire’s most controversial setting opinion, the pervasiveness of imposter syndrome, offering inspiration and energy to coworkers, keeping comp climbers “sketched out,” the value of wide representation and different perspectives in all things, and at least one setting exercise you won’t forget. Thank you Vertical Solutions and TRUBLUE for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Jen Piperno is the Executive Director at Teton Rock Gym in Driggs, Idaho. Teton Rock Gym is unique because it is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, and that designation frames the gym’s operation, outlook and funding. In this episode, Piperno explains more about what it means for a climbing gym to be a nonprofit business and how such designation can allow a facility to uniquely connect with the local community. Piperno also discusses how her various academic and professional pursuits—including earning a master’s degree in nonprofit management with a concentration in social business—ultimately led to her current distinctive role in the climbing gym industry. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Routesetting as a shorter setter doesn’t come with a shortage of challenges and frustrations. But that’s far from the full story for Abby Tran, Assistant Headsetter at The Circuit Bouldering Gyms in Portland, Oregon. On this episode of the Impact Driver podcast, unabashedly short setters Abby and Holly Chen discuss some of the benefits that shorter people bring to the setting world; the importance of empathy, trust and respect on setting teams; training for setting as a shorter setter and a setter in general; enjoying both aesthetic climbs and a “wrestle” on the wall; avoiding “featherbagging” as well as sandbagging; and at one point, Abby’s cat sneaks onto the show. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Essential and Strati.

Today I talk to Mathieu Ackermann, who is one of the shapers at Flathold, the other creative mastermind there being Manuel Hassler, whose name you will hear mentioned in this episode as well. But back to Mathieu. He is a fascinating subject because his shaping at Flathold combines a love for outdoor climbing with some formal art training and education, and all with an open embrace of what Mathieu calls the new school style of climbing and shaping. And speaking of that new school style, if you watched the Bern World Championships, you saw the unveiling of some clear, no-texture holds from Flathold. They made huge waves in the comp climbing world. So Mathieu and I talk all about the creation of those clear, no tex-holds, and we talk about how Flathold wasn't even sure if the IFSC would allow those holds to be used at the World Championships. There's a cool little story there. So let's jump into my conversation with Mathieu Ackermann at Flathold. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Approach and TRUBLUE.

Today’s guest is John McGowan. I don't even know the single best way to describe John. Entrepreneur, business developer, old school climber but new school visionary, adventurer, all of the above. I will say this: If someone were putting together a list of the most important figures of the climbing gym industry of the past 35 or 40 years, basically as long as there has been some semblance of an American climbing gym industry, John McGowan would absolutely be one of the names on it. He has started businesses that have contributed immensely to key evolutions of the climbing industry, as you will hear about. In terms of his resume, he founded Boulder Rock Club in 1990. He and a business partner, Steve Holmes, then founded Eldorado Climbing Walls a few years after that. Later, he and Steve Holmes also started TRUBLUE auto belays. And more recently he was involved in founding Riversmith, which is a company that he will explain more about in the conversation. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and TRUBLUE.

Today's guests are Foxman McCarthy-James and Justin Wright. Foxman is the Head Setter at Alta Climbing & Fitness and Alta Boulders in Arizona, while Justin is the Director of Routesetting at Edgeworks Climbing & Fitness in Washington. Between the two, they have over 25 years of setting experience and even more climbing experience. Together, they cofounded Vortex Routesetting, a company that provides setter development and training, competition management, and consultations. In this wide-ranging conversation, Fox, Justin and I talk about the rise in demand for setting consultations, the bottlenecks of setting education, and the numbers behind the scenes of the setting trade, from pay and workload to setter professional development. Justin and Fox offer their expertise and insights, demonstrating how all of those trends are more interlinked than perhaps previously thought. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Strati Climbing and Trango.

We are talking industry trade shows today. Specifically, today's guest is Travis Williams, who founded sToKed Climbing with his wife, Kimberly, and more recently founded the Indoor Climbing Expo. More than a trade show, the Expo is a new industry gathering, or festival, that combines routesetting clinics, educational sessions, roundtables, competitions, local crag tours, and of course plenty of networking opportunities. The Expo will be held in Tennessee at the Chattanooga Convention Center from December 13-16, and CBJ is actually the official media partner for the event. So, we wanted to circle up with Travis on a podcast episode to talk a little more about the Expo, the idea behind the event, who will be there and who should be there—which means you! The Expo was made for all professionals and climbers in the industry. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Essential Climbing and Vertical Solutions.

Today’s guest is Dean Privett. He's the founder of Iron City Boulders in Pittsburgh and Blue Swan Boulders in Orlando; he's also the president of Moments Climbing, a European gym chain operating three facilities in Finland. Privett gives his take on some of the ways the U.S. climbing gym industry and the European climbing gym industry are similar and different, based on his experience and conversations he’s had in his line of work. He dives into climbing gym construction and operating costs, location preferences, where U.S. gyms may be behind or ahead of the game, and other characteristics of climbing gyms across the pond versus gyms stateside. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Butora and TRUEBLUE.

In this episode of the CBJ Podcast, we’re chatting with Jean-Marc de la Plante, who is a business leader in the Canadian climbing gym scene. He owns or co-owns several gyms in Canada under the UPLIFY development banner: three Allez Up gyms (Montreal), two Seven Bays Bouldering gyms (Halifax), two BoulderHouse gyms (Victoria), Up The Bloc (Mississauga), The Rock Oasis and Joe Rockhead’s (Toronto). A developer of facilities spread all throughout the country, de la Plante shares some insights in this interview on what he looks for when considering a new market or region for a gym, the evolution of the climbing gym industry in Canada, and what he appreciates most about climbing and gyms. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Vertical Solutions.

Today's guest is Stephanie Myr, a climber of almost a decade and a routesetter for just as long. Myr is currently the head setter at Climb Tacoma in Tacoma, Washington. She began her setting career volunteering at the local YMCA before joining the Climb Tacoma staff. In addition to routesetting, Myr also manages the gym and coaches the youth team. If you're wondering why she sounds so familiar, it's probably because you've come across an Instagram account she founded and co-manages, called Expensive Boulders. In today's wide-ranging conversation, Myr talks about social media's impact on routesetting, aesthetics versus function, her philosophy and approach, and, of course, rock climbing. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Trango.

Retail plays a key role in most gyms’ day-to-day operations, while also being a visual component of the facility, so today's conversation is all about gym retail: what sales strategies work well, what doesn’t work so well; what sells, what doesn't sell. We speak with Brad Werntz, President of the two Boulders climbing gyms in Madison, Wisconsin, both of which have retail components. As a longtime gym operator and former sales representative for various climbing brands, Werntz has seen the business value of a well-managed retail area, as well as some potential pitfalls to avoid. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Strati and Essential.

Today we sit down with Sam Van Boxtel, who runs the popular Climbers Crag channels on Instagram and YouTube and has teamed up with Tom Randall to manage social media profiles for top climbing brands through their Climbers Crag agency. Van Boxtel has been around the block in the climbing gym industry, having worked on the ground in front desk, routesetting and marketing roles. The intersection of marketing and climbing is his specialty, and he’s got a number of tips and tricks up his sleeve for industry professionals. We talk about how Instagram, in particular, can be a valuable tool in any marketing mix—whether you're a gym operator, freelance setter, coach or national brand—why having more followers may not always be a good thing for your account, and which low-hanging fruit in social media marketing to pick first. Our host is Scott Rennak with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Butora.

Jackson Scott told his parents that he wanted to open a climbing gym, and although there was a lot of hard work along the way, the end result was Crux Climbing, which is operated and co-owned by Scott and his parents. It was a family dream that became a family reality. Scott talks about that process of starting a family-owned gym in this episode. He also reflects on some of the lessons learned within the gym’s first year of operations, offering advice to anyone else who might be dreaming of opening a “mom-and-pop”-style climbing facility. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Vertical Solutions and TRUBLUE.

A couple weeks ago, Dr. Eugen Burtscher and Dr. Volker Schöffl (@volkerschoeffl) made headlines when they resigned from their volunteer positions on the IFSC’s Medical Commission. Dr. Burtscher served as the Chair of the Commission, and Dr. Schöffl was a Commission member for more than a decade. Following their resignations, a lengthy post on Dr. Schöffl’s Instagram page cited repeated “non-action” on the part of the IFSC to “detect, evaluate and help” athletes with disordered eating. “The current politics with regards to RED-S cannot be accepted,” the Instagram post stated, specifically referencing the broad condition of Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (RED-S). In this episode of the CBJ Podcast, Dr. Schöffl provides further background on his resignation, explains more about RED-S and its potential dire consequences, and offers some ideas and directions for possible solutions to the complex topic of disordered eating in climbing. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney.

Siege Climbing is a competition series set for and by women, non-binary and gender minorities in the community. With us today is Hannah Barker (pronouns she/her), founder of Siege Climbing. Hannah is deep in the competition setting scene, and she works to mentor and uplift other underrepresented people in the industry. We also have Jiarra Chiang here (pronouns she/he/they), head routesetter and maintenance man at Vertical Ventures. Jiarra has set throughout the Southeast and is currently finishing up internships toward her L3 this USA climbing season. Last but not least, Hayley Moran (pronouns she/her). Hayley is an L3 routesetter and advocator of the professionalization of the routesetting industry. The trio finished up their first season of Siege Climbing comps last year and are now in the middle of the second one. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Trango and Vertical Solutions.

Wade Desai is the Director of Climbing at ASCEND in the Pittsburgh area. As you'll hear, he certainly loves climbing, but he's also passionate about slacklining and accomplished at it too. Since starting at ASCEND in 2017, he's seen slacklining take off as a programming offering and has been helping lead the charge. Could more climbing gyms offer slacklining? And if so, what are some of the steps that a gym should take to get a slacklining program started? Those questions guide today’s conversation, and we’ll also hear more about Desai's fascinating transition from a doctor in the medical field to a director in the climbing gym industry. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Strati and EP Climbing.

Jackie Pettitt has been coaching for the past 12 years and specializes in climbing movement, technique, and mental toughness training. Over the years, she has helped athletes reach Nationals, Youth Worlds and other championship events. She also mentors head coaches, helping them become great leaders and establish well-rounded programs. In this episode, Pettitt brought her knowledge of the industry to the table, covering her career as a climbing coach, her thoughts on coaching education, tips on hiring a coaching team, and much more. Our host is Zoe Leibovitch with music by Devin Dabney and sponsors Vertical Solutions and Butora.

Today’s episode features a conversation with attorney Jason Pill. Jason is a longtime climber, and he currently works with the Phelps Dunbar law firm in Tampa, Florida. His main areas of focus tend to be labor and employment law, but he's written articles for CBJ on a wide range of legal topics, including an entire Ask a Lawyer series. In this episode, Jason shares some insights about waivers and how protective they really are against lawsuits, some landmark cases and rulings that gym owners should know about, and legal challenges that gym owners might be facing in the years to come. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Strati.