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Cloud Security Podcast by Google

Technology Podcasts

Cloud Security Podcast by Google focuses on security in the cloud, delivering security from the cloud, and all things at the intersection of security and cloud. Of course, we will also cover what we are doing in Google Cloud to help keep our users' data safe and workloads secure. We’re going to do our best to avoid security theater, and cut to the heart of real security questions and issues. Expect us to question threat models and ask if something is done for the data subject’s benefit or just for organizational benefit. We hope you’ll join us if you’re interested in where technology overlaps with process and bumps up against organizational design. We’re hoping to attract listeners who are happy to hear conventional wisdom questioned, and who are curious about what lessons we can and can’t keep as the world moves from on-premises computing to cloud computing.


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Cloud Security Podcast by Google focuses on security in the cloud, delivering security from the cloud, and all things at the intersection of security and cloud. Of course, we will also cover what we are doing in Google Cloud to help keep our users' data safe and workloads secure. We’re going to do our best to avoid security theater, and cut to the heart of real security questions and issues. Expect us to question threat models and ask if something is done for the data subject’s benefit or just for organizational benefit. We hope you’ll join us if you’re interested in where technology overlaps with process and bumps up against organizational design. We’re hoping to attract listeners who are happy to hear conventional wisdom questioned, and who are curious about what lessons we can and can’t keep as the world moves from on-premises computing to cloud computing.




EP139 What is Chronicle? Beyond XDR and into the Next Generation of Security Operations

Guest: Chris Corde, Sr Director of Product Management - Security Operations, Google Cloud Topics: You cover many products, but let’s focus on Chronicle today. An easy question: Chronicle isn’t an XDR, so what is it? Since you’ve joined the team, what’re you most proud of shipping to clients? Could you share more about the Mandiant acquisition, what’s been a happy surprise and what are you looking forward to making available to customers? Some believe that good security operations success is mostly about process, yet we are also building these amazing products. What is your view of how much security ops success hinges on products vs practices? When it comes to building out Chronicle’s position in the market, how are we leveraging the depth of expertise that people have with other SIEM tools compared to ours? What advice do you have for security professionals who want to transition into product management? Resources: EP44 Evolving a SIEM for the Future While Learning from the Past EP82 Mega-confused by XDR? You Are Not Alone! This XDR Skeptic Clarifies!


EP138 Terraform for Security Teams: How to Use IaC to Secure the Cloud

Guest: Rosemary Wang, Developer Advocate at HashiCorp Topics: Could you give us a 2 minute picture on what Terraform is, what stages of the cloud lifecycle it is relevant for, and how it intersects with security teams? How can Terraform be used for security automation? How should security teams work with DevOps teams to use it? What are some of the obvious and not so obvious security challenges of using Terraform? How can security best practices be applied to infrastructure instantiated via Terraform? What is the relationship between Terraform and policy as code (PaC)? How do you get started with all this? What do you tell the security teams who want to do cloud security the “old way” and not the cloud-native way? Resources: Video (LinkedIn, YouTube) “EP126 What is Policy as Code and How Can It Help You Secure Your Cloud Environment?” Policy as Code with HashiCorp Sentinel or Open Policy Agent (OPA) for Terraform “Terraform Cloud adds Vault-backed dynamic credentials” blog Google Cloud Provider for Terraform Security & Authentication Providers for Terraform “Sloth’s Guide to Mindfulness” book


EP137 Next 2023 Special: Conference Recap - AI, Cloud, Security, Magical Hallway Conversations

Guests: no guests, all banter, all very fun :-) Topics: How is Google Next this year? What is new in cloud security? Is Google finally a security vendor? What are some of the fun security presentations we've seen, including our own? Any impactful launches in security? What was the most interesting overall? Resources: “Next 2023 Special: Building AI-powered Security Tools - How Do We Do It?” (ep136) “RSA 2023 - What We Saw, What We Learned, and What We're Excited About” (ep119) “Cyber Defense Matrix and Does Cloud Security Have to DIE to Win?” (ep67) “Detecting, investigating, and responding to threats in your Google Cloud environment” at Cloud Next 2023 by Anton “Prevent cloud compromises: Learn how Uber discovers cyber risks and remediates threats” at Cloud Next 2023 by Tim “Generative AI for defenders with Sec-PaLM 2 and Duet AI” at Cloud Next 2023 by Eric Doerr (his episode) “A blueprint for modern security operations” at Cloud Next 2023 by our future guest, Chris… Kevin Mandia at Next keynote (start at 1:15:00) “New AI capabilities that can help address your security challenges” blog


EP136 Next 2023 Special: Building AI-powered Security Tools - How We Do It?

Guest: Eric Doerr, VP of Engineering, Google Cloud Security Topics: You have a Next presentation on AI, what is the most exciting part for you? We care both about securing AI and using AI for security. How do you organize your thinking about it? Executive surveys imply that trusting an AI (for business) is still an issue. How can we trust AI for security? What does it mean to “trust AI” in this context? How should defenders think about threat modeling AI systems? Back to using AI for security, what are the absolute worst security use cases for GenAI? Think “generate code and run it on prod” or something like that? What does it mean to “teach AI security” like we did with Sec-PALM2? What is actually involved in this? What were some surprising challenges we ran into here? Resources: “Generative AI for defenders with Sec-PaLM 2 and Duet AI” presentation at Google Cloud Next 2023 “The Prompt: What to think about when you’re thinking about securing AI” and a new paper on securing AI “AI and Security: The Good, the Bad, and the Magical” (ep135) Monitor and secure Vertex AI “Introducing Google’s Secure AI Framework” blog “Project Hail Mary” book


EP135 AI and Security: The Good, the Bad, and the Magical

Guest: Phil Venables (@philvenables), Vice President, Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) @ Google Cloud Topics: Why is AI a game-changer for security? Can we even have game-changers in cyber security? Is it more detection or is it more reducing toil and making humans more productuve? What are you favorite AI for security use cases? What “AI + security” issue makes you - a classic CISO question here - lose sleep at night? Does AI help defenders or attackers more? Won’t attackers adopt faster because they don’t have as many rules (but yes, they have bosses and budgets too)? Aren’t there cases where defenders benefit a lot more and gain a superpower with AI while attackers are faced with defeat? Is securing AI more similar or more different from securing other enterprise systems? Does shared fate apply to AI? Resources: “Securing AI: Similar or Different?” paper by Office of the CISO at Google Cloud “Secure AI Framework Approach" Supercharge security with AI Board of Directors Insights Hub “Lessons from the future: Why shared fate shows us a better cloud roadmap” blog “Megatrends, Macro-changes, Microservices, Oh My! Changes in 2022 and Beyond in Cloud Security” (ep47) “Securing Multi-Cloud from a CISO Perspective, Part 3” (ep22) “Google Cybersecurity Action Team: What's the Story?” (ep37) “Google Cybersecurity Action Team: One Year Later!” (ep90)


EP134 How to Prioritize UX and Security in the Cloud: UX as a Security Capability

Guest: Steph Hay , Director of UX, Google Cloud Security Topics: The importance of User Experience (UX) in security is so obvious – though it isn’t to a lot of people! Could we talk about the importance of UX in security? UX and security in general have an uneasy relationship, and security is harmed by bad UX, it also feels like bad UX can be a security issue. What is your take on this? How do you think about prioritizing your team’s time between day zero vs day n experiences for users of security tools? Some say that cloud security should be invisible, but does this mean no UX at all? What are the intersections between UX for security and invisible security? Can you think of what single UX change in Cloud Security’s portfolio made the biggest impact to actual security outcomes? We have this new tool/approach for planning called Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) - give us the value, and the history? In the world of JTBD planning, what gets better? Resources: JTBD Framework GCP IAM Recommender Recaptha Enterprise


EP133 The Shared Problem of Alerting: More SRE Lessons for Security

Guest: Steve McGhee, Reliability Advocate at Google Cloud Aron Eidelman, Developer Relations Engineer at Google Cloud Topics: What is the shared problem for SRE and security when it comes to alerting? Why is there reluctance to reduce noise? How do SREs, security practitioners, and other stakeholders define “incident” and “risk”? How does involving an “adversary” change the way people think about an incident, even if the impact is identical? Which SRE alerting lessons do NOT apply at all for security? Resources: Video (LinkedIn, YouTube) “Deploy Security Capabilities at Scale: SRE Explains How” (ep85) Steve talk about probability and SLO math at SLOconf Why Focus on Symptoms, Not Causes? Learning from incidents (LFI) science How to measure anything in cyber security risk book Security chaos engineering book The SRS Book Ch 1 The SRE book Ch 4


EP132 Chaos Engineering for Security: How to Improve Software Resilience with Kelly Shortridge

Guest: Kelly Shortridge, Senior Principal Engineer in the Office of the CTO at Fastly Topics: So what is Security Chaos Engineering? “Chapter 5. Operating and Observing” is Anton’s favorite. One thing that mystifies me, however, is that you outline how to fail with alerts (send too many), but it is not entirely clear how to practically succeed with them? How does chaos engineering help security alerting / detection? How chaos engineering (or is it really about software resilience?) intersects with Cloud security - is this peanut butter and chocolate or more like peanut butter and pickles? How can organizations get started with chaos engineering for software resilience and security? What is your favorite chaos engineering experiment that you have ever done? We often talk about using the SRE lessons for security, and yet many organizations do security the 1990s way. Are there ways to use chaos engineering as a forcing function to break people out of their 1990s thinking and time warp them to 2023? Resources: Video (LinkedIn, YouTube) “Security Chaos Engineering: Sustaining Resilience in Software and Systems” by Kelly Shortridge, Aaron Rinehart “Cybersecurity Myths and Misconceptions” book “Designing Data-Intensive Applications: The Big Ideas Behind Reliable, Scalable, and Maintainable Systems“ book “Normal Accidents: Living with High-Risk Technologies” book “Deploy Security Capabilities at Scale: SRE Explains How” (ep85) “The Good, the Bad, and the Epic of Threat Detection at Scale with Panther” (ep123) “Can a Small Team Adopt an Engineering-Centric Approach to Cybersecurity?” (ep117) IKEA Effect “Modernizing SOC ... Introducing Autonomic Security Operations”


EP131 A Deep Dive into Google's Assured OSS: How Google Secures the Software You Use

Guests: Himanshu Khurana, Engineering Manager, Google Cloud Rahul Gupta, Product Manager for Assured OSS, Google Cloud Topics: For the software you’re supporting in Assured Open Source your team discovered 50% of the CVEs reported in them this year. How did that happen? So what is Assured Open Source? Do we really guarantee its security? What does “guarantee” here mean? What’re users actually paying for here? What’s the Google magic here and why are we doing this? Do we really audit all code and fuzz for security issues? What’s a supply chain attack and then we’ll talk about how this is plugging into those gaps? Resources: Assured Open Source Software page “SBOMs: A Step Towards a More Secure Software Supply Chain” (ep116) “Linking Up The Pieces: Software Supply Chain Security at Google and Beyond” (ep24) blog Open Source Security Podcast Mandiant M-Trends 2023


EP130 Cloud is Secure: Are you Using It Securely - True or False?

Guest: Steve Rileyex-Gartner Research VP Topics: Resources: LinkedInYouTubeBruce Schneier booksNetskope blog “Deploy Security Capabilities at Scale: SRE Explains How” “Zero Trust: Fast Forward from 2010 to 2021” “Powering Secure SaaS … But Not with CASB? Cloud Detection and Response?”“How to Approach Cloud in a Cloudy Way, not As Somebody Else’s Computer?” "Use Cloud Securely? What Does This Even Mean?!" "How to Solve the Mystery of Cloud Defense in Depth?"


EP129 How CISO Cloud Dreams and Realities Collide

Guest: Rick Doten, VP, Information Security at Centene Corporation, CISO Carolina Complete Health Topics: What are the realistic cloud risks today for an organization using public cloud? Is the vendor lock-in on that list? What other risks everybody thinks are real, but they are not? What do you tell people who in 2023 still think “they can host Exchange better themselves” and have silly cloud fears? Cloud providers have greater opportunity not only to see issues, but to learn how to react well. Do you think this argument holds water? What are the most challenging security issues for multi-cloud and hybrid cloud security? How does security chasm (between security haves and have-notes) affect cloud security? Your best cloud security advice for an organization with a security team of 0 FTEs and no CISO? Resources: Video (LinkedIn, YouTube) Rick Doten on YouTube Defining Cloud Security by Rick Doten Cloud Security Alliance materials Mandiant M-Trends 2023


EP128 Building Enterprise Threat Intelligence: The Who, What, Where, and Why

Guest: John Doyle, Principle Intelligence Enablement Consultant at Mandiant / Google Cloud Topics: You have created a new intelligence class focused on building enterprise threat intelligence capability, so what is the profile of an organization and profile for a person that benefits the most from the class? There are many places to learn threat intel (TI), what is special about your new class? You talk about country cyber operations in the class, so what is the defender - relevant difference between, say, DPRK and Iran cyber doctrines? More generally, how do defenders benefit from such per country intel? Can you really predict what the state-affiliated attackers would do to your organization based on the country doctrine? In many minds, TI is connected to attribution. What is your best advice on attribution to CISOs of well-resourced organizations? What about mainstream organizations? Overall we see a lot of organizations still failing to operationalize TI, especially strategic TI, how does this help them? Resources: The new class “Inside the Mind of APT” “Navigating Tradeoffs of Attribution” paper Sands Casino hack 2014 "Threat Horizons - How Google Does Threat Intelligence"


EP127 Is IAM Really Fun and How to Stay Ahead of the Curve in Cloud IAM?

Guest: Ian Glazer, founder at Weave Identity, ex-Gartner, ex-SVP of Products at Salesforce, co-founder of IDPro Topics: OK, tell us why Identity and Access Management (IAM) is exciting (is it exciting?) Could you also explain why IAM is even more exciting in the cloud? Are you really “one IAM mistake away from a breach” in the cloud? What advice would you give to someone new to IAM? How to not just “learn IAM in the cloud” but to keep learning IAM? Is what I know about IAM in AWS the same as knowing IAM for GCP? What advice do you have for teams operating in a multi-cloud world? What are the top cloud IAM mistakes? How to avoid them? Resources: Video (LinkedIn, YouTube) IDPro association and BoK SCIM v2 standard EP60 Impersonating Service Accounts in GCP and Beyond: Cloud Security Is About IAM? EP76 Powering Secure SaaS … But Not with CASB? Cloud Detection and Response? EP94 Meet Cloud Security Acronyms with Anna Belak


EP126 What is Policy as Code and How Can It Help You Secure Your Cloud Environment?

Guests: Dominik Richter, the founder and head of product at Mondoo Cooked questions: What is a policy, is that the same as a control, or is there a difference? And what’s the gap between a policy and a guardrail? We have IaC, so what is this Policy as Code? Is this about security policy or all policies for cloud? Who do I hire to write and update my policy as code? Do I need to be a coder to create policy now? Who should own the implementation of Policy as Code? Is Policy as Code something that security needs to be driving? Is it the DevOps or Platform Engineering teams? How do organizations grow into safely rolling out new policy as code code? You [Mondoo] say that "cnspec assesses your entire infrastructure's security and compliance" and this problem has been unsolved for as long as the cloud existed. Will your toolset change this? There are other frameworks that exist for security testing like HashiCorp’s sentinel, Open Policy Agent, etc and you are proposing a new one with MQL. Why do we need another security framework? What are some of the success metrics when adopting Policy as Code? Resources: LinkedInYouTube “Why Infrastructure as Code Is Setting You up to Make Bad Things Faster”


EP125 Will SIEM Ever Die: SIEM Lessons from the Past for the Future

Guest: David Swift, Security Strategist at Netenrich Topics: Which old Security Information and Event Management (SIEM) lessons apply today? Which old SIEM lessons absolutely do not apply today and will harm you? What are the benefits and costs of SIEM in 2023? What are the top cloud security use cases for SIEM in 2023? What are your favorite challenges with SIEM in 2023 special in the cloud? Are they different from, say, 2013 or perhaps 2003? Do you think SIEM can ever die? Resources: Live video (LinkedIn, YouTube) “Debating SIEM in 2023, Part 1” and “Debating SIEM in 2023, Part 2” blogs “Detection as Code? No, Detection as COOKING!” blog “A Process for Continuous Security Improvement Using Log Analysis” (old but good) “UEBA, It's Just a Use Case” blog “Situational Awareness Is Key to Faster, Better Threat Detection” blog and other SIEM reading MITRE 15 detection techniques paper


EP124 Safe Browsing: Lessons from How Google Secures Five Billion Devices at Low False Positive Rates

Guest: Panos Mavrommatis, Senior Engineering Director at Google Cloud Topics: Could you give us the 30 second overview of our favorite “billion user security product” - SafeBrowsing - and, since you were there, how did it get started? SafeBrowsing is a consumer and business product – are you mitigating the same threats and threat models on each side? Making this work at scale can’t be easy, anytime we’re talking about billion device protection, there are massive scale questions. How did we make it work at such a scale? Talk to us about the engineering and scaling magic behind the low false positive rate for blocking? Resources: “Foundryside”


EP123 The Good, the Bad, and the Epic of Threat Detection at Scale with Panther

Guest: Jack Naglieri, Founder and CEO at Panther Topics: What is good detection, defined at micro-level for a rule or a piece of detection content? What is good detection, defined at macro-level for a program at a company? How to reliably produce good detection content at scale? What is a detection content lifecycle that reliably produces good detections at scale? What is the purpose of a SIEM today? Where do you stand on a classic debate on vendor-written vs customer-created detection content? Resources: “Essentialism” book “The 5 AM Club” book “Good to Great” book “Why Is Threat Detection Hard” blog “Think Like a Detection Engineer, Pt. 2: Rule Writing” blog “Detection as Code? No, Detection as COOKING!” blog Open Cybersecurity Schema Framework (OCSF)


EP122 Firewalls in the Cloud: How to Implement Trust Boundaries for Access Control

Guest: Michele Chubirka, Senior Cloud Security Advocate, Google Cloud Topics: So, if somebody wakes you up at 3AM (“Anton’s 3AM test”) and asks “Do we need firewalls in the cloud?” what would you say? Firewalls (=virtual appliances in the cloud or routing cloud traffic through physical firewalls) vs firewalling (=controlling network access) in the cloud, do they match the cloud-native realities? How do you implement trust boundaries for access control with cloud-native options? Can you imagine a modern cloud native security architecture that includes a firewall? Can you imagine a modern cloud native security architecture that excludes any firewalling? Firewall, NIDS, NIPS, NGFW …. How do these other concepts map to the cloud? How do you build a "traditional-like" network visibility layer in the cloud (and do we need to)? Resources: Video version of this episode: LinkedIn or YouTube “Security Architect View: Cloud Migration Successes, Failures and Lessons” (ep105) “Love it or Hate it, Network Security is Coming to the Cloud” with Martin Roesch (ep113) Gartner Bimodal IT definition Ross Anderson “Security Engineering” book The New Stack blog Trireme toolCNCF site security landscape Google Cloud Firewall


EP121 What Happens Here Stays Here: Confidential City (and Space)

Guests: Nelly Porter, Group Product Manager, Google Cloud Rene Kolga, Senior Product Manager, Google Cloud Topics: Could you remind our listeners what confidential computing is? What threats does this stop? Are these common at our clients? Are there other use cases for this technology like compliance or sovereignty? We have a new addition to our Confidential Computing family - Confidential Space. Could you tell us how it came about? What new use cases does this bring for clients? Resources: “Confidentially Speaking” (ep1) “Confidentially Speaking 2: Cloudful of Secrets” (ep48) “Introducing Confidential Space to help unlock the value of secure data collaboration” Confidential Space security overview “The Is How They Tell Me The World Ends” by Nicole Perlroth NIST 800-233 “High-Performance Computing (HPC) Security: Architecture, Threat Analysis, and Security Posture”


EP120 Building Secure Cloud and Building Security Products: Finding the Balance

Guest: Topics: You’ve had a long career in software and security, what brought you to Google Cloud Security for this role? How do you balance the needs of huge global financials that often ask for esoteric controls (say EKM with KAJ) vs the needs of SMBs that want easy yet effective, invisibility security? We’ve got an interesting split within our security business: some of our focus is on making Google Cloud more secure, while some of our focus is on selling security products. How are you thinking about the strategy and allocation between these functions for business growth? What aspects of Cloud security have you seen cloud customers struggle with the most? What’s been the most surprising or unexpected security challenge you’ve seen with our users? “Google named a Leader in Forrester Wave™ IaaS Platform Native Security” - can you share a little bit about how this came to be and what was involved in this? Is cloud migration a risk reduction move? Resources: “Google named a Leader in Forrester Wave™ IaaS Platform Native Security” “Sunil Potti on Building Cloud Security at Google” (ep102) Books by Haruki Murakami We are hiring product managers!