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The Interop

Technology Podcasts

Technical deep dives with the entrepreneurs and developers building the decentralized economics networks which make up the Interchain. The Interop is hosted by crypto investor and podcaster @seb3point0.


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Technical deep dives with the entrepreneurs and developers building the decentralized economics networks which make up the Interchain. The Interop is hosted by crypto investor and podcaster @seb3point0.



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Bitcoin is Making a Comeback with Matt Ye of Lorenzo

Lorenzo is a Cosmos chain that leverages BTC shared security and enables liquid staking. In this conversation, Seb and Matt discuss the resurgence of interest in Bitcoin, particularly in the context of DeFi. They also explore the concept of liquid staking for Bitcoin and how it differs from liquid staking in proof-of-stake chains. Matt explains the architecture of Lorenzo, a Bitcoin liquid staking protocol built on the Cosmos chain, and how it leverages Babylon. They also touch on the different approaches to Bitcoin L2s and the importance of liquid staking to the success of the Bitcoin L2 ecosystem. Consider staking with Interop Ventures 🥩 TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:01 The Bitcoin Renaissance 00:05:13 Technical Improvements Enabling Bitcoin L2s & OP_CAT 00:12:51 Different Approaches to Bitcoin L2s 00:17:58 Could Bitcoin Become a POS Chain? 00:23:00 What is Lorenzo 00:28:29 The Dual Token Model & Yield Sources 00:30:36 Lorenzo Architecture 00:49:14 BTC-Fi 00:57:17 Current Status of Lorenzo LINKS Lorenzo Protocol Website GUESTS Matt on Twitter Matt on LinkedIn SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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Rebooting the Metaverse with Lex Avellino of Passage

Passage improves virtual experiences and collaboration, making them more organic and immersive and better reflecting the way we interact in real life. For creators, Passage is a platform that enables nearly unlimited creative freedom thanks to its use of the Unreal Engine. This allows creators to build unique experiences for their communities. How does this relate to crypto? The $PASG token is the economic foundation for a new creator economy where community members own their identity and digital assets. Consider staking with Interop Ventures 🥩 TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:17:09 Is the Metaverse Dead? 00:22:06 What is Passage 00:31:10 How to Use Passage 00:35:39 Crypto-Enabled Communities 00:41:29 Cosmos SDK Architecture 00:44:21 Akash Partnership 00:53:59 Passage Elite 00:57:38 Roadmap LINKS Passage's Website GUESTS Lex on Twitter Lex on LinkedIn SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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The Interchain Application Layer with Adair Kelley of Abstract

Abstract is an Interchain app platform enabling developers to build across CosmWasm-supported chains. Apps built with Abstract get automatic integrations with Interchain DEXes, lending markets, oracles, and liquid staking protocols. The core infrastructure is the Abstract Account, a smart contract wallet extendable with Abstract modules. One exciting use case is mesh applications, where chains form an Interchain DAO to vote on and fund public goods at a supra-chain level. Consider staking with Interop Ventures TOPICS 00:00 Introduction 02:33 CosmWasm Berlin Hackathon 10:14 Evolution of CosmWasm 15:20 What is Abstract 24:21 Security 32:06 Abstract-JS 34:36 Integrations 36:11 Modulars 37:48 IBC Email 40:50 Abstract & EVM apps GUESTS Adair on X Abstract on X SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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Interwoven Rollups with Stan Liu & Ezaan “Zon” Mangalji of Initia

Join us in this episode where we discover how Initia's vertically integrated tech stack seamlessly connects their L1s with application-specific L2 chains, enabling efficient inter-chain communication and solving the traditional fragmentation of multichain systems. We also explore the variety of development tools available (EVM, MoveVM & WasmVM), which simplify app deployment and significantly reduce the complexity for developers. Consider staking with Interop Ventures TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:08:36 Appchains Debate 00:14:35 Tackling Fragmentation 00:17:31 Building on Initia 00:25:05 Inside L2s 00:27:13 Role of Sequencers 00:29:26 Scaling Limits 00:30:33 L1s Services 00:36:13 IBC Implementation 00:37:57 Custom Modules 00:40:06 OPinit Stack 00:41:59 VMs Integration 00:48:03 RaaS Market Competition 00:52:59 Testnet Opportunities LINKS Initia's Website GUESTS Stan on Twitter Zon on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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MONOLITHIC VS APPCHAINS with Eric Zhang & Brian Breslow of DoraHacks

Join us in this episode as we explore how DoraHacks advances the hacker movement. Learn about Dora Factory's innovative public good staking and decentralized funding infrastructures. We also discuss Dora Vota's role in enabling fair and private community governance through Anonymous Minimal Anti-Collusion Infrastructure (aMACI). Additionally, we deep dive into the appchain thesis and how projects benefit from running their own sovereign chains over building on monolithic L1s. Consider staking with Interop Ventures TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:22 DoraHacks Overview 00:10:51 Appchain Thesis 00:20:11 L2s Thesis 00:30:00 Cosmos SDK Evolution 00:37:34 Solana Appchain Thesis 00:45:58 Dora Factory & Dora Vota 00:52:08 MACI & aMACI Voting 01:03:21 DoraHacks Roadmap LINKS DoraHacks Minimal Anti-Collusion Infrastructure Vota: Special Purpose Blockchain for Voting What Will aMACI Unlock? Inevitability of UNIchain GUESTS Eric Zhang on Twitter Brian Breslow on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture on Twitter The Interop on Twitter


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The AI portfolio manager with Daniel Machlup of FortyTwo

Join us as we explore the innovative integration of AI in DeFi with Daniel Machlup from FortyTwo. FortyTwo is building the interface layer for cross-chain DeFi, tackling a critical challenge in the rapidly growing multi-chain ecosystem. The goal is simple, make cross-chain user experience easy for both users and protocols. Tune in to see how AI is reshaping crypto asset management, making it as simple as expressing your intention. Consider staking with Interop Ventures TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:03:25 Building on Cosmos 00:05:45 Cosmos SDK Advantages 00:08:33 Exploring FortyTwo 00:16:03 Infrastructure Providers 00:17:38 Solver Marketplace 00:38:31 Architecture 00:39:53 Wallet UX Enhancements 00:42:04 Osmosis Smart Accounts 00:44:14 Beta Launch Overview LINKS FortyTwo GUESTS Daniel Machlup on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture on Twitter The Interop on Twitter


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DeFi Risk Modelling & Management with Marijo Radman and Benedikt Eikmanns of Alterscope

Join us as we delve into the complexities of risk management in decentralized finance (DeFi), where Alterscope pioneers with its risk ZK coprocessor and zero-knowledge proof technology to tackle unique challenges such as liquidity and protocol risks. Uncover how Alterscope's advanced tools not only quantify new kinds of risks but also offer a dynamic platform for effectively modeling and managing them, including a detailed look at the crucial data sets used for assessing oracle risks to ensure DeFi's data reliability. Consider staking with Interop Ventures 🥩 TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:04:16 Crypto Risk Management 00:10:13 Pricing Web3 Risk 00:13:22 TradiFi vs DeFi Risk Management 00:15:16 Understanding Alterscope 00:21:42 Oracle Risks 00:27:26 Risk Marketplace Participants 00:37:41 Enhancing DeFi Yield Strategies 00:40:53 Restaking 00:46:08 Staking Providers Risks 00:51:06 Impact on Future of DeFi 00:55:30 Product Roadmap LINKS Alterscope GUESTS Marijo on Twitter Benedikt on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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Decentralized Storage for IBC Chains with Patrick Dunlop & Marston Connell of Jackal

Discover Jackal Protocol in this episode as we delve into its decentralized storage solution, enhancing blockchain interoperability and real-time data access through its Cosmos Layer 1 platform. Learn how Jackal ensures data reliability with advanced redundancy and frequent verification, supporting a wide array of Web3 applications. Consider staking with Interop Ventures TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:06:58 Decentralised storage 00:13:45 DePIN is a hot topic 00:16:06 Jackal - how it works 00:25:47 Role of the Cosmos SDK module 00:27:09 EVM Contracts 00:28:37 Jackal Proof-of-Persistence (JPOP) 00:41:13 Most exciting use cases 00:46:44 Tokenomics & Economics of Perpetual Storage 00:57:51 Interoperability & IBC LINKS Jackal Protocol Jackal Labs Jackal Proof-of-Persistence (JPOP)​ GUESTS Patrick on Twitter Marston on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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ZK Proof Aggregation with Garvit Goel of Electron Labs

Electron Labs aggregates zero-knowledge proofs across protocols into a single superproof, which is then verified on Ethereum. Thanks to the use of recursive ZK proofs, this collective approach lowers verification costs to less than 1% of current rates. This is a huge unlock for applications leveraging ZK: Privacy, micro rollups, DA bridges, IBC, and more. TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:56 Cost of ZK proof verification 00:07:10 ZK proofs & Rollups 00:14:36 ZK light client 00:16:52 Superproofs 00:22:28 Electron trust assumptions 00:24:14 Electron's Architecture 00:31:27 Challenges 00:34:38 Electron SDK 00:44:00 Interoperability and IBC 00:48:43 Union & Polymer approach 00:52:55 ZK Proof endgame LINKS Electron Labs Electron Labs on Twitter GUESTS Garvit on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture on Twitter The Interop on Twitter


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Securing Cosmos Chains with Celestia DA - Jack Zampolin of Rollchains & Strangelove

Rollchains introduce new ways to build, maintain and scale Cosmos chains. New and existing Cosmos SDK chains can enable the Rollchains module to post block data to Celestia. Built with POA chains in mind, Rollchains promises to reduce the cost of securing chains while maintaining a high Nakamoto coefficient, potentially transforming the tokenomics of chains that struggle to cover the inflationary cost of maintaining a validator set. TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:46 Blockchain gaming 00:05:41 Cosmos design philosophy 00:12:15 Cosmos Alignment 00:17:58 Why build a rollchain 00:25:37 IBC & interoperability 00:30:34 Rollchain Cosmos SDK module 00:37:27 Rollchain DA support 00:39:12 Roll Apps Vs. Rollchains 00:41:41 Working with Ethos 00:47:06 Long-term future of Ethereum 00:48:58 Thoughts on Movement 00:53:18 Polymer and Union 00:54:16 Skip: Unsung Heroes of Cosmos GUESTS Jack on Twitter LINKS Rollchains Strangelove SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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The Future of DAO Governance with Nicolas Biagosch of Q Protocol

Q protocol is a decentralized governance layer for Web3 that allows developers to build organizational constitutions that are enforced by smart contracts and include off-chain avenues for resolving disputes the code can't deal with. Built as a fully EVM-compatible Layer 1 for maximum security, the protocol is live with a full set of infra and applications supporting the ecosystem. It prevents governance exploits and reduces legal and regulatory risks associated with centralized decision making. TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:06:52 Governance by code 00:10:44 Practical cases where DAO governance has failed 00:19:30 What is Q and how does it make a difference 00:22:58 Beyond Code is law 00:27:15 The Q Consititution 00:34:41 Stakeholders in the Q blockchain 00:37:21 The role of the token holders 00:40:57 Difference between validators and root nodes 00:45:29 Expert panels and their roles 00:47:58 Q Token holders' competence to vote 00:49:52 The practical steps in this mechanism 00:55:25 Do you need to build your DAO on Q 00:57:16 Integration with Q 00:59:53 Network stakes 01:02:38 The worrying US tax system 01:05:20 Discussion on decentralised AI 01:08:02 DeFi is going nowhere 01:12:47 Learn more about Q GUESTS Nicolas on Twitter LINKS Q Whitepaper SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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Cosmos Hub ICS Security Marketplace with Jehan Tremback of Informal Systems

Informal Systems is a Cosmos contributor that works on the Cosmos Hub, which is the first blockchain in the Interchain. The Cosmos Hub is one of thousands of blockchains that will eventually make up the Cosmos Network. The Hub's primary token is ATOM, but it will support many other tokens in the future. Interchain Security is one of the main services the Cosmos Hub provides. It enables other blockchains to be secured through Proof-of-Stake (PoS) by the ATOM token, which holds one of the largest market capitalizations in the interchain ecosystem. TOPICS 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:02:20 - 5th anniversary of the hub 00:04:13 - Shift in the vision of Cosmos SDK 00:07:59 - The role of a Cosmos Hub Lead 00:12:44 - Business development and its role under Informal Systems 00:19:32 - Shared security on the hub - Interchain Security 00:26:19 - The shift in vision 00:31:20 - The subset problem 00:38:41 - The old way vs the new 00:42:15 - The babylon partnership - additional security 00:48:20 - How the hub competes in the landscape 00:50:21 - Ethos and what they're building 00:53:24 - Cosmos Alignment and how it's perceived 00:55:46 - The end game LINKS Babylon Bitcoin Security Interchain Security: Partial Set Security Comos-Ethereum Converging Atomic composability - IBC Atom Wars SOCIAL MEDIA (Twitter) Sebastien Couture The Interop


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FAIR TOKEN LAUNCHES with Simon Chadwick of Eclipse

Eclipse Fi is a revolutionary hub for interchain token launches, bringing the value back into the hands of early communities. Eclipse Mainnet, launching in Q1 2024, is the fastest Ethereum L2, powered by the SVM. With an architecture that combines the best pieces of the modular stack, developers get all the benefits of dedicated throughput with none of the downsides. Eclipse makes it possible to build applications that can coordinate masses of people and scale with any developer’s needs. TOPICS 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:06:46 - Terra's Collapse 00:10:27 - the next cycle of token launches 00:20:23 - Centralised vs Decentralised platforms 00:22:49 - Implementing KYC & compliance for projects 00:27:15 - The vision for eclipse 00:31:32 - Benefits of launching projects on Eclipse 00:35:16 - Supported launch mechanisms 00:37:47 - Reputation on the user side 00:41:07 - CIBIL 00:43:11 - How zkKYC works 00:47:17 - Liquidity hub 00:54:20 - Why Eclipse was built on Neutron 00:57:29 - Roadmap for Eclipse Fi GUESTS Simon on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA (Twitter) Sebastien Couture The Interop


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SLINKY ORACLE with Maghnus Mareneck of Skip

Skip Protocol helps sovereign blockchain protocols supercharge their blockspace to improve user experience, enhance interoperability, and enrich network stakeholders. The protocol has recently unveiled Slinky, an “Oracle” aggregator designed for perpetual markets and DeFi as a whole. TOPICS 00:02:10 - Major Developments at Skip 00:04:40 - The slinky announcement 00:14:15 - Use cases for Slinky 00:21:10 - The architecture and how validators are coordinating 00:25:11 - Levana Attack in relation to the architecture 00:27:14 - Pricing and Slashing 00:35:18 - Is there a compromise? 00:38:16 - What vulnerabilities and attacks can Slinky prevent 00:45:15 - The opportunity cost of using Skip 00:48:36 - How it fits in the modular stack 00:53:51 - Slinky:The Rolls Royce of Oracles 00:59:18 - Slinky's origin and potential customers 01:03:02 - Conclusion LINKS GitHub - Skip-mev How Slinky can prevent Oracle Manipulation Attacks Slinky: Twitter Announcement GUESTS Maghnus on Twitter Skip's Website SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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CELESTIA LIQUID STAKING with Fabo & Jay B of Milky Way

MilkyWay is a liquid staking solution for the Celestia ecosystem, initially starting its deployment and operation on Osmosis. When individuals liquid stake their TIA coins through MilkyWay, they obtain an on-chain representation of their TIA staking position, termed as milkTIA. This allows Celestia token holders to access liquidity for their staked assets, facilitating trading or their utilization as collateral in different DeFi products. TOPICS 00:06:27 - When did the protocol launch? 00:07:43 - Growth and support from the community 00:08:25 - Liquid staking 00:10:09 - What is liquid staking evolving into 00:12:25 - What is Milky Way? 00:14:38 - Where can people use their MilkTIA 00:17:23 - The design 00:26:13 - The agent and how it interacts with the multisig 00:31:59 - Fudding the multisig 00:34:22 - Purpose of the contract 00:38:23 - How the validators are chosen 00:47:56 - Milky Way's position in the liquid staking space 00:51:54 - Endgame for Milky Way in the Celestia ecosystem 00:55:38 - The roadmap LINKS Milky Way AuthZ Delegated Multisig GUESTS JayB on LinkedIn Fabo on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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BUILD WHATEVER WHEREVER with Omer Mishael of Lava Network

Lava is a modular data network for scaling access to any blockchain. The network can flexibly support any RPC and API. Lava works with rollups and blockchains to consolidate and improve their node infrastructure. Providers are rewarded for their quality of service, so your users can fetch data and send transactions with speed, data integrity and uptime. Lava helps developers build web3-native apps on any chain. TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:05:48 Lava's USP 00:10:22 Uber for blockchain data 00:13:39 RPC and Relayers 00:23:26 Lava's paradigm and how it works 00:31:47 How does the matching happen? 00:39:48 Clustering mechanism 00:42:29 Participants in Lava functionality 00:51:55 Modular Stack - Lava's contribution 00:56:10 Light Clients 01:01:04 Road to mainnet LINKS Lava on Twitter GUESTS Omer Mishael on Linkedin ------------------------------------ SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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MODULAR MOVE ROLLUPS with Rushi Manche of Movement Labs

Movement Labs is a modular framework to build and deploy Move-based infrastructure, applications, and blockchains in any distributed environment. They offer an open network for creators to build and grow. The team is building a suite of products and services that empower non-Move protocols to leverage the power of the Move Programming Language without writing a single lineof Move code. TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:04:58 EVM is going to zero 00:12:33 Overview of Movement 00:16:25 M2: Roll up framework 00:18:27 Decision tree for a developer 00:20:51 Noble and Union Partnership 00:25:41 Fractal module: Backwards Compatibility 00:28:50 Risky Opcodes in Ethereum 00:31:50 Native USDC 00:33:36 How move benefits IBC 00:35:12 Future of Cosmos 00:40:08 Long term compatibility between VMs 00:42:55 Movement Labs: Parthenon Roadmap 00:44:35 Decentralised Share Sequencer 00:47:24 Validators for M1 00:48:30 Token and Air Drop? 00:48:59 Community program 00:51:33 ETF Approval LINKS M2 Announcement Movement + Noble + Union Partnership Movement Roadmap Ethereum Opcodes GUESTS Rushi Manche on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture on Twitter The Interop on Twitter


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LEVANA RELAUNCH with Jonathan Caras of Levana

Levana is a decentralized exchange protocol designed to enable leveraged positions for any asset. Levana enables permission-less, censorship-resistant Capital efficient markets. Levana is the only platform with zero insolvency risk, so your PnL is always safe. Currently market launches and configuration is permissioned, but Levana's goal is to create a permissionless protocol which enables anyone to be able to launch a leveraged market for any asset. TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:55 The ETF Approval 00:06:28 Ben Franklin with laser eyes 00:12:30 The token launch 00:24:23 Attack timeline 00:28:30 Details of the attack 00:29:04 Targeted pools 00:34:09 Oracle Exploitation & how it works 00:42:16 Other oracle solutions 00:46:55 Learnings from the attack 00:49:50 Mitigation and relaunch 00:57:42 Thoughts on adding LVN tokens & Staking 01:00:22 Positive outlook for Levana LINKS Initial Security Alert Levana exploit postmortem Delta price attack explained Jacob Gabikian post on p2p storm GUESTS Jonathan on Twitter Levana on Twitter SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture The Interop


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Cosmos in 2024 LIVESTREAM with Cryptocito, Sam Hart, Farmer and Stephen TCG

Consider staking with Interop Ventures ------------------------------------ TOPICS GUESTS ------------------------------------ SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture: The Interop:


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Consider staking with Interop Ventures XION is the first L1 purpose built for mass consumer adoption through its Generalized Abstraction layer. It is a paradigm shift, paving the way for mainstream adoption of Web3 by enabling seamless user experiences for everyday users through protocol-level implementations. It focuses on accounts, signatures, payments, interoperability, devices, and pricing. TOPICS 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:09 Burnt Banksy 00:05:12 Early NFT Projects 00:07:34 Nobody gives a shit about crypto 00:12:06 What is XION 00:13:30 XION in comparison to other protocols 00:15:51 Generalized Abstraction 00:18:37 Integration with other chains 00:21:19 Advantage of integrating with XION 00:23:28 Meta accounts and how it works 00:27:50 Abstraction 2.0 do we need a wallet anymore? 00:30:59 Onboarding legacy accounts 00:38:15 Too much power to Apple and Google 00:40:20 Parameterised Fee Layer 00:47:13 The Mint module 00:54:53 Why XION chose Cosmos LINKS XION Whitepaper: GUESTS Burnt Banksy: ------------------------------------ SOCIAL MEDIA Sebastien Couture: The Interop: