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The New Stack Podcast is all about the developers, software engineers and operations people who build at-scale architectures that change the way we develop and deploy software. For more content from The New Stack, subscribe on YouTube at:


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The New Stack Podcast is all about the developers, software engineers and operations people who build at-scale architectures that change the way we develop and deploy software. For more content from The New Stack, subscribe on YouTube at:






Don't Force Containers and Disrupt Workflows

In this episode of The New Stack Makers from KubeCon EU 2023, Rob Barnes, a senior developer advocate at HashiCorp, discusses how their networking service, Consul, allows users to incorporate containers or virtual machines into their workflows without imposing container usage. Consul, an early implementation of service mesh technology, offers a full-featured control plane with service discovery, configuration, and segmentation functionalities. It supports various environments, including traditional applications, VMs, containers, and orchestration engines like Nomad and Kubernetes. Barnes explains that Consul can dictate which services can communicate with each other based on rules. By leveraging these capabilities, HashiCorp aims to make users' lives easier and software more secure. Barnes emphasizes that there are misconceptions about service mesh, with some assuming it is exclusively tied to container usage. He clarifies that service mesh adoption should be flexible and meet users wherever they are in their technology stack. The future of service mesh lies in educating people about its role within the broader context and addressing any knowledge gaps. Join Rob Barnes and our host, Alex Williams, in exploring the evolving landscape of service mesh and understanding how it can enhance workflows. Find out more about HashiCorp or the biggest news from KubeCon on The New Stack: HashiCorp Vault Operator Manages Kubernetes Secrets How HashiCorp Does Site Reliability Engineering A Boring Kubernetes Release


AI Talk at KubeCon

What did software engineers at KubeCon say about how AI is coming up in their work? That's a question we posed Taylor Dolezal, head of ecosystem for the Cloud Native Computing Foundation at KubeCon in Amsterdam. Dolezal said AI did come up in conversation. "I think that when it's come to this, typically with KubeCons, and other CNCF and LF events, there's always been one or two topics that have bubbled to the top," Dolezal said. At its core, AI surfaces a data issue for users that correlates to data sharing issues, said Dolezal in this latest episode of The New Stack Makers. Read more about AI and Kubernetes on The New Stack: 3 Important AI/ML Tools You Can Deploy on Kubernetes Flyte: An Open Source Orchestrator for ML/AI Workflows Overcoming the Kubernetes Skills Gap with ChatGPT Assistance


A Boring Kubernetes Release

Kubernetes release 1.27 is boring, says Xander Grzywinski, a senior product manager at Microsoft. It's a stable release, Grzywinski said on this episode of The New Stack Makers from KubeCon Europe in Amsterdam. "It's reached a level of stability at this point," said Grzywinski. "The core feature set has become more fleshed out and fully realized. The release has 60 total features, Grzywinski said. The features in 1.27 are solid refinements of features that have been around for a while. It's helping Kubernetes be as stable as it can be. Examples? It has a better developer experience, Grzywinski said. Storage primitives and APIs are more stable.


How Teleport’s Leader Transitioned from Engineer to CEO

The mystery and miracle of flight sparked Ev Kontsevoy’s interest in engineering as a child growing up in the Soviet Union. “When I was a kid, when I saw like airplane flying over, I was having a really hard time not stopping and staring at it until it's gone,” said Kontsevoy, co-founder and CEO of Teleport, said in this episode of the Tech Founders Odyssey podcast series. “I really wanted to figure out how to make it fly.” Inevitably, he said, the engineering path led him to computers, where he was thrilled by the power he could wield through programming. “You're a teenager, no one really listens to you yet, but you tell a computer to go print number 10 ... and then you say, do it a million times. And the stupid computer just prints 10 million. You feel like a magician that just bends like machines to your will.” In this episode of the series, part of The New Stack Makers podcast, Kontsevoy discussed his journey to co-founding Teleport, an infrastructure access platform, with TNS co-hosts Colleen Coll and Heather Joslyn.


Developer Tool Integrations with AI -- The AWS Approach

Developer tool integration and AI differentiate workflows to achieve that "fluid" state developers strive for in their work. Amazon CodeCatalyst and Amazon CodeWhisperer exemplify how developer workflows are accelerating and helping to create these fluid states. That's a big part of the story we hear from Harry Mower, director AWS DevOps Services, and Doug Seven, director, Software Development, AWS CodeWhisperer, from our recording in Seattle earlier in April for this week's AWS Developer Innovation Day. CodeCatalyst serves as an end-to-end integrated DevOps toolchain that provides developers with everything they need to go from planning through to deployment, Mower said. CodeWhisperer is an AI coding companion that generates whole-line and full-line function code recommendations in an integrated development environment (IDE). CodeWhisperer is part of the IDE, Seven said. The acceleration is two-fold. CodeCatalyst speeds the end-to-end integration process, and CodeWhisper accelerates writing code through generative AI.


CircleCI CTO on How to Quickly Recover From a Malicious Hack

Just as everyone was heading out to the New Year's holidays last year, CTO Rob Zuber got a surprise of a most unwelcome sort. A customer alerted CircleCI to suspicious GitHub OAuth activity. Although the scope of the attack appeared limited, there was still no telling if other customers of the DevOps-friendly continuous integration and continuous delivery platform were impacted. This notification kicked off a deeper review by CircleCI’s security team with GitHub, and they rotated all GitHub OAuth tokens on behalf of their customers. On January 4, the company also made the difficult but necessary decision to alert customers of this “security instance,” asking them to immediately rotate any and all stored secrets and review internal logs for any unauthorized access. In this latest episode of The New Stack Makers podcast, we discuss with Zuber the attack and how CircleCI responded. We also talk about what other companies should do to avoid the same situation, and what to do should it happen again.


What Are the Next Steps for Feature Flags?

Feature flags, the toggles in software development that allow you to turn certain features on or off for certain customers or audiences, offer release management at scale, according to Karishma Irani, head of product at LaunchDarkly. But they also help unleash innovation, as she told host Heather Joslyn of The New Stack in this episode of The New Stack Makers podcast. And that points the way to a future where the potential for easy testing can inspire new features and products, Irani said. “We've observed that when the risk of releasing something is lowered, when the risk of introducing bugs in production or breaking, something is reduced, is lowered, our customers feel organically motivated to be more innovative and think about new ideas and take risks,” she said.


KubeCon + CloudNativeCon EU 2023: Hello Amsterdam

Hoi Europe and beyond! Once again it is time for cloud native enthusiasts and professionals to converge and discuss cloud native computing in all its efficiency and complexity. The Cloud Native Computing Foundation's KubeCon+CloudNativeCon 2023 is being held later this month in Amsterdam, April 18 - 21, at the Rai Convention Centre. In this latest edition of The New Stack podcast, we spoke with two of the event's co-chairs who helped define this year's themes for the show, which is expected to draw over 9,000 attendees: Aparna Subramanian, Shopify's Director of Production Engineering for Infrastructure; and Cloud Native Infra and Security Enterprise Architect Frederick Kautz.


The End of Programming is Nigh

s the end of programming nigh? If you ask Matt Welsh, he'd say yes. As Richard McManus wrote on The New Stack, Welsh is a former professor of computer science at Harvard who spoke at a virtual meetup of the Chicago Association for Computing Machinery (ACM), explaining his thesis that ChatGPT and GitHub Copilot represent the beginning of the end of programming. Welsh joined us on The New Stack Makers to discuss his perspectives about the end of programming and answer questions about the future of computer science, distributed computing, and more. Welsh is now the founder of, a platform they are building to let companies develop applications on top of large language models to extend with different capabilities. For 40 to 50 years, programming language design has had one goal. Make it easier to write programs, Welsh said in the interview. Still, programming languages are complex, Welsh said. And no amount of work is going to make it simple.


How 2 Founders Sold Their Startup to Aqua Security in a Year

Speed is a recurring theme in this episode of The Tech Founder Odyssey. Also, timing. Eilon Elhadad and Eylam Milner, who met while serving in the Israeli military, discovered that source code leak was a hazardous side effect of businesses’ need to move fast and break things in order to stay competitive. “Every new business challenge leads to a new technological solution,” said Elhadad in this episode of The New Stack's podcast series. “The business challenge was to deliver product faster to the business; the solution was to build off the supply chain. And then it leads to a new security attack surface.” Discovering this problem, and finding a solution to it, put Milner and Elhadad in the right place at the right time — just as the tech industry was beginning to rally itself to deal with this issue and give it a name: software supply chain security. It led them to co-found Argon Security, which was acquired by Aqua Security in late 2021, Elhadad told The New Stack, a year after Argon started.


Why Your APIs Aren’t Safe — and What to Do About It

Given the vulnerability of so many systems, it’s not surprising that cyberattacks on applications and APIs increased 82% in 2022 compared to the previous year, according to a report released this year by Imperva’s global threat researchers. What might rattle even the most experienced technologists is the sheer scale of those attacks. Digging into the data, Imperva, an application and data security company, found that the largest layer seven, distributed denial of service (DDoS) attack it mitigated during 2022 involved — you might want to sit down for this — more than 3.9 million API requests per second. “Most developers, when they think about their APIs, they’re usually dealing with traffic that’s maybe 1,000 requests per second, not too much more than that. Twenty thousand, for a larger API,” said Peter Klimek, director of technology at Imperva, in this episode of The New Stack Makers podcast. “So, to get to 3.9 million, it’s really staggering.” Klimek spoke to Heather Joslyn of TNS about the special challenges of APIs and cybersecurity and steps organizations can take to keep their APIs safe. The episode was sponsored by Imperva.


Unix Creator Ken Thompson to Keynote Scale Conference

The 20th Annual Southern California Linux Expo (SCALE) runs Thursday through Sunday at the Pasadena Convention Center in Pasadena, Ca., featuring keynotes from notables such as Ken Thompson, the creator of Unix, said Ilan Rabinovich, one of the co-founders and conference chair for the conference on this week's edition of The New Stack Makers. "Honestly, most of the speakers we've had, you know, we got at SCALE in the early days, we just, we, we emailed them and said: 'Would you come to speak at the event?' We ran a call for proposals, and some of them came in as submissions, but a lot of it was just cold outreach. I don't know if that succeeded, because that's the state of where the community was at the time and there wasn't as much demand or just because or out of sheer dumb luck. I assure you, it wasn't skill or any sort of network that we like, we just, you know, we just we managed to, we managed to do that. And that's continued through today. When we do our call for papers, we get hundreds and hundreds of submissions, and that makes it really hard to choose from." Rethinking Web Application Firewalls Thompson, who turned 80 on February 4 (Happy Birthday, Mr. Thompson), created Unix at Bell Labs. He worked with people like Robert Griesemer and Rob Pike on developing the Go programming language and other projects over the years, including Plan 9, UTF-8, and more. Rabinovich is pretty humble about the keynote speakers that the conference attracts. He and the conference organizers scoured the Internet and found Thompson's email, who said he'd love to join them. That's how they attracted Lawrence Lessig, the creator of the Creative Commons license, who spoke at SCALE12x in 2014 about the legal sides of open source, content sharing, and free software. "I wish I could say, we have this very deep network of connections," Rabinovich said. "It's just, these folks are surprisingly approachable, despite, you know, even after years and years of doing amazing work." SCALE is the largest community-run open-source and free software conference in North America, with roots befitting an event that started with a group of college students wanting to share their learnings about Linux. Rabinovitch was one of those college students attending UCSB, the University of California, Santa Barbara. "A lot of the history of SCALE comes from the LA area back when open source was still relatively new and Linux was still fairly hard to get up and running," Rabinovitch said. "There were LUGS (Linux User Groups) on every corner. I think we had like 25 LUGS in the LA area at one point. And so so there was a vibrant open source community.' Los Angeles's freeways and traffic made it difficult to get the open source community together. So they started LUGFest. They held the day-long event at a Nortel building until the telco went belly up. So, as open source people tend to do, they decided to scale, so to speak, the community gatherings. And so SCALE came to be – led by students like Rabinovitch. The conference started with a healthy community of 200 to 250 people. By the pandemic, 3,500 people were attending. For more about SCALE, listen to the full episode of The New Stack Makers wherever you get your podcasts.


How Solvo’s Co-Founder Got the ‘Guts’ to Be an Entrepreneur

When she was a student in her native Israel, Shira Shamban was a self-proclaimed “geek.” But, unusually for a tech company founder and CEO, not a computer geek. Shamban was a science nerd, with her sights set on becoming a doctor. But first, she had to do her state-mandated military service. And that’s where her path diverged. In the military, she was not only immersed in computers but spent years working in intelligence; she stayed in the service for more than a decade, eventually rising to become head of an intelligence sector for the Israeli Defense Forces. At home, she began building her own projects to experiment with ideas that could help her team. “So that kind of helped me not to be intimidated by technology, to learn that I can learn anything I want by myself,” said Shamban, co-founder of Solvo, a company focused on data and cloud infrastructure security. “And the most important thing is to just try out things that you learn.” To date, Solvo has raised about $11 million through investors like Surround Ventures, Magenta Venture Partners, TLV Partners and others. In this episode of The New Stack Makers podcast series The Tech Founder Odyssey, Shamban talked to Heather Joslyn and Colleen Coll of TNS about her journey. In-Person Teamwork Shamban opted to stay in the technology world, nurturing a desire to eventually start her own company. It was during a stint at Dome9, a cloud security company, that she met her future Solvo co-founder, David Hendri — and built a foundation for entrepreneurship. “After that episode, I got the guts,” she said. “Or I got stupid enough.” Hendri, now Solvo’s chief technology officer, struck Shamban as having the right sensibility to be a partner in a startup. At Dome9, she said, “very often, I used to stay up late in the office, and I would see him as well. So we'd grab something to eat.” Their casual conversations quickly revealed that Hendri was often staying late to troubleshoot issues that were not his or his team’s responsibility, but simply things that someone needed to fix. That sense of ownership, she realized, “is exactly the kind of approach one would need to bring to the table in a startup.” The mealtime chats that started Solvo have carried over into its current organizational culture. The company employs 20 people; workers based in Tel Aviv are expected to come to the office four days a week. Hendri and Shamban started their company in the auspicious month of March 2020, just as the Covid-19 pandemic started. While many companies have moved to all-remote work, Solvo never did. “We knew we wanted to sit together in the same room, because the conversations you have over a cup of coffee are not the same ones that you have on a chat, and on Slack,” the CEO said. “So that was our decision. And for a long time, it was an unpopular decision.” As the company scales, finding employees who align with its culture can make recruiting tricky, Shamban said. It's not only about your technical expertise, it's also about what kind of person you are,” she said. “Sometimes we found very professional people that we didn't think would make a good fit to the culture that we want to build. So we did not hire them. And in the boom times, when it was really hard to hire engineers. “These were tough decisions. But we had to make them because we knew that building a culture is easier in a way than fixing a culture. Listen to the full episode to hear more about Shamban's journey.


Ambient Mesh: No Sidecar Required

At Cloud Native Security Con, we sat down with's Marino Wijay and Jim Barton, who discussed how service mesh technologies have matured, especially now with the removal of sidecars in Ambient Mesh that it developed with Google. Ambient Mesh is "a new proxy architecture that, according to the site, "moves the proxy to the node level for mTLS and identity. It also allows a policy-enforcement policy to manage Layer 7 security filters and policies. A sidecar is a mini-proxy, a mini-firewall, like an all-in-one router, said Wijay, who does developer relations and advocacy for Solo. A sidecar receives instructions from an upstream control plane. "Now, one of the things that we started to realize with different workloads and different patterns of communication is that not all these workloads need a sidecar or can take advantage of the sidecar," Wijay said. "Some better operate without the sidecar." Ambient Mesh reflects the maturity of service mesh and the difference between day one and day two operations, said Barton, a field engineer with Solo. "Day one operations are a lot about understanding concepts, enabling developers, initial configurations, that sort of thing," Barton said. "The community is really much more focused and Ambient Mesh is a good example of this on day two concerns. How do I scale this? How do I make it perform in large environments? How can I expand this across clusters, clusters in multiple zones in multiple regions, that sort of thing? Those are the kinds of initiatives that we're really seeing come to the forefront at this point." With the maturity of service mesh comes the users. In the context of security, that means the developer security operations person, Barton said. It's not the developer's job to connect services. Their job is to build out the services. "It's up to the platform operator, or DevSecOps engineers to create that, that fundamental plane or foundation for where you can deploy your services, and then provide the security on top of it," Barton said. The engineers then have to configure it and think it through. "How do I know who's doing what and who's talking to who, so that I can start forming my zero trust posture?," Barton said.


2023 Hotness: Cloud IDEs, Web Assembly, and SBOMs

Here's a breakdown of what we cover: Cloud IDEs will mature as GitHub's Codespaces platform gains acceptance through its integration into the GitHub service. Other factors include new startups in the space, such as GitPod, which offers a secure, cloud-based IDE, and Uptycs, which uses telemetry data to lock-down developer environments. "So I think you'll, you're just gonna see more people exposed to it, and they're gonna be like, 'holy crap, this makes my life a lot easier '." FinOps reflects the more stringent views on managing costs, focusing on the efficiency of resources that a company provides for developers. The focus also translates to the GreenOps movement with its emphasis on efficiency. Software bill of materials (SBOMs) will continue to mature with Sigstore as the project with the fastest expected adoption. Witness, from Telemetry Project, is another project. The SPDX community has been at the center of the movement for over a decade now before people cared about it. GitOps and Open Telemetry: This year, KubeCon submissions topics on GitOps were super high. OpenTelemetry is the second most popular project in the CNCF, behind Kubernetes. Platform engineering is hot. Anisczyk cites Backstage, a CNCF project, as one he is watching. It has a healthy plugin extension ecosystem and a corresponding large community. People make fun of Jenkins, but Jenkins is likely going to be around as long as Linux because of the plugin community. Backstage is going along that same route. WebAssembly: "You will probably see an uptick in edge cases, like smaller deployments as opposed to full-blown cloud-based workloads. Web Assembly will mix with containers and VMs. "It's just the way that software works." Kubernetes is part of today's distributed fabric. Linux is now everywhere. Kubernetes is going through the same evolution. Kubernetes is going into airplanes, cars, and fast-food restaurants. "People are going to focus on the layers up top, not necessarily like, the core Kubernetes project itself. It's going to be all the cool stuff built on top."


Generative AI: Don't Fire Your Copywriters Just Yet

Everyone in the community was surprised by ChatGPT last year, which a web service responded to any and all user questions with a surprising fluidity. ChatGPT is a variant of the powerful GPT-3 large language model created by OpenAI, a company owned by Microsoft. It is still a demo though it is pretty clear that this type of generative AI will be rapidly commercialized. Indeed Microsoft is embedding the generative AI in its Bing Search service, and Google is building a rival offering. So what are smaller businesses to do to ensure their messages are heard to these machine learning giants? For this latest podcast from The New Stack, we discussed these issues with Ryan Johnston, chief marketing officer for Writer. Writer has enjoyed an early success in generative AI technologies. The company's service is dedicated to a single mission: making sure its customers' content adheres to the guidelines set in place. This can include features such as ensuring the language in the copy matches the company's own designated terminology, or making sure that a piece of content covers all the required topic points, or even that a press release has quotes that are not out of scope with the project mission itself. In short, the service promises "consistently on-brand content at scale," Johnston said. "It's not taking away my creativity. But it is doing a great job of figuring out how to create content for me at a faster pace, [content] that actually sounds like what I want it to sound like." For our conversation, we first delved into how the company was started, its value proposition ("what is it used for?") and what role that AI plays in the company's offering. We also delve a bit into the technology stack Writer deploys to offer these services, as well as what material the Writer may require from their customers themselves to make the service work. For the second part of our conversation, we turn our attention to how other companies (that are not search giants) can get their message across in the land of large language models, and maybe even find a few new sources of AI-generated value along the way. And, for those public-facing businesses dealing with Google and Bing, we chat about how they should they refine their own search engine optimization (SEO) strategies to be best represented in these large models? One point to consider: While AI can generate a lot of pretty convincing text, you still need a human in the loop to oversee the results, Johnston advised. "We are augmenting content teams copywriters to do what they do best, just even better. So we're scaling the mundane parts of the process that you may not love. We are helping you get a first draft on paper when you've got writer's block," Johnston said. "But at the end of the day, our belief is there needs to be a great writer in the driver's seat. [You] should never just be fully reliant on AI to produce things that you're going to immediately take to market."


Feature Flags are not Just for Devs

The story goes something like this: There's this marketing manager who is trying to time a launch. She asks the developer team when the service will be ready. The dev team says maybe a few months. Let's say three months from now in April. The marketing manager begins prepping for the release. The dev team releases the services the following week. It's not an uncommon occurrence. Edith Harbaugh is the co-founder and CEO of LaunchDarkly, a company she launched in 2014 with John Kodumal to solve these problems with software releases that affect organizations worldwide. Today, LaunchDarkly has 4,000 customers and an annual return revenue rate of $100 million. We interviewed Harbaugh for our Tech Founder Odyssey series on The New Stack Makers about her journey and LaunchDarkly's work. The interview starts with this question about the timing of dev releases and the relationship between developers and other constituencies, particularly the marketing organization. LaunchDarkly is the number one feature management company, Harbaugh said. "Their mission is to provide services to launch software in a measured, controlled fashion. Harbaugh and Kodumal, CTO, founded the company on the premise that software development and releasing software is arduous. "You wonder whether you're building the right thing," Harbaugh said, who has worked as both an engineer and a product manager. "Once you get it out to the market, it often is not quite right. And then you just run this huge risk of how do you fix things on the fly." Feature flagging was a technique that a lot of software companies did. Harbaugh worked at Tripit, a travel service, where they used feature flags as did companies such as Atlassian, where Kodumal had developed software. "So the kernel of LaunchDarkly, when we started in 2014, was to make this technique of feature flagging into a movement called feature management, to allow everybody to build better software faster, in a safer way." LaunchDarkly allows companies to release features however granular an organization wants, allowing a developer to push a release into production in different pieces at different times, Harbaugh said. So, a marketing organization can send a release out even after the developer team has released it into production. "So, for example, if, we were running a release, and we wanted somebody from The New Stack to see it first, the marketing person could turn it on just for you." Harbaugh describes herself as a huge geek. But she also gets it in a rare way for geeks and non-geeks alike. She and Kodumal took a concept used effectively by develops, transforming it into a service that provides feature management for a broader customer base, like the marketer wanting to push releases out in a granular way for a launch on the East Coast that is pre-programmed with feature flags in advance from the company office the previous day in San Francisco. The idea is novel, but like many intelligent, technical founders, Harbaugh's journey reflects her place today. She's a leader in the space, and a fun person to talk to, so we hope you enjoy this latest episode in our tech founder series from The New Stack Makers.


Port: Platform Engineering Needs a Holistic Approach

By now, almost everyone agreed platform engineering is probably a good idea, in which an organizations builds an internal development platform to empower coders and speed application releases. So, for this latest edition of The New Stack podcast, we spoke with one of the pioneers in this space, Zohar Einy, CEO of Port, to see how platform engineering would work in your organization. TNS Editor Joab Jackson hosted this conversation. Port offers what it claims is the world's first low code platform for developers. Rethinking Web Application Firewalls With Port, an organization can build a software catalogue of approved tools, import its own data model, and set up workflows. Developers can consume all the resources they need through a self-service catalogue, without needing the knowledge how to set up a complex application, like Kubernetes. The DevOps and platform teams themselves maintain the platform. Application owners aren't the only potential users of a self-service catalogues, Einy points out in our convo. DevOps and system administration teams can also use the platform. A DevOps teams can set up automations "to make sure that [developers are] using the platform with the right mindset that fits with their organizational standards in terms of compliance, security, and performance aspects." Even machines themselves could benefit from a self-service platform, for those who are looking to automate deployments as much as possible. Einy offered an example: A CI/CD process could create a build process on its own. If it needs to check the maturity level of some tool, it can do so through an API call. If it's not adequately certified, the developer is notified, but if all the tools are sufficiently mature than the automated process can finish the build without further developer intervention. Another possible process that could be automated would be the termination of permissions when their deadline has passed. Think about an early-warning system for expired digital certificates. "So it's a big driver for both for cost reduction and security best practices," Einy said. Too Many Choices, Not Enough Code But what about developer choice? Won't developers feel frustrated when barred from using the tools they are most fond of? But this freedom to use any tool available was what led us to the current state of overcomplexity in full-stack development, Einy responded. This is why the role of "full-stack developer" seems like an impossible, given all the possible permutations at each layer of the stack. Like the artist who finds inspiration in a limited palette, the developer should be able to find everything they need in a well-curated platform. "In the past, when we talked about 'you-build-it-you-own-it', we thought that the developer needs to know everything about anything, and they have the full ownership to choose anything that they want. And they got sick of it, right, because they needed to know too much," Einy said. "So I think we are getting into a transition where developers are OK with getting what they need with a click of a button because they have so much work on their own." In this conversation, we also discussed measuring success, the role of access control in DevOps, and open source Backstage platform, and its recent inclusion of paid plug-ins. Give it a listen!


Platform Engineering Benefits Developers, and Companies Too

In this latest episode of The New Stack Makers podcast, we delve more deeply into the emerging practice of platform engineering. The guests for this show are Aeris Stewart, community manager at platform orchestration provider Humanitec and Michael Galloway, an engineering leader for infrastructure software provider HashiCorp. TNS Features Editor Heather Joslyn hosted this conversation. Although the term has been around for several years, platform engineering caught the industry's attention in a big way last September, when Humanitec published a report that identified how widespread the practice was quickly becoming, citing its use by Nike, Starbucks, GitHub and others. Right after the report was released, Stewart provided an analysis for TNS arguing that platform engineering solved the many issues that another practice, DevOps, was struggling with. "Developers don’t want to do operations anymore, and that’s a bad sign for DevOps," Stewart wrote. The post stirred a great deal of conversation around the success of DevOps. Platform engineering is "a discipline of designing and building tool chains and workflows that enable developer self service," Stewart explained. The purpose is to give the developers in your organization a set of standard tools that will allow them to do their job — write and fix apps — as quickly as possible. The platform provides the tools and services "that free up engineering time by reducing manual toil cognitive load," Galloway added. But platform engineering also has an advantage for the business itself, Galloway elaborated. With an internal developer platform in place, a business can scale up with "reliability, cost efficiency and security," Galloway said. Before HashiCorp, Galloway was an engineer at Netflix, and there he saw the benefits of platform engineering for both the dev and the business itself. "All teams were enabled to own the entire lifecycle from design to operation. This is really central to how Netflix was able to scale," Galloway said. A platform engineering team created a set of services that made it possible for Netflix engineers to deliver code "without needing to be continuous delivery experts." The conversation also touched on the challenges of implementing platform engineering, and what metrics you should use to quantify its success. And because platform engineering is a new discipline, we also discussed education and community. Humanitec's debut PlatformCon drew over 6,000 attendees last June (and Platform 2023 has just been scheduled for June). There is also a platform engineering Slack channel, which has drawn over 8,000 participants thus far. "I think the community is playing a really big role right now, especially as a lot of organizations' awareness of platform engineering is just starting," Stewart said. "There's a lot of knowledge that can be gained by building a platform that you don't necessarily want to learn the hard way."


What’s Platform Engineering? And How Does It Support DevOps?

Platform engineering “is the art of designing and binding all of the different tech and tools that you have inside of an organization into a golden path that enables self service for developers and reduces cognitive load,” said Kaspar Von Grünberg, founder and CEO of Humanitec, in this episode of The New Stack Makers podcast. This is structure is important for individual contributors, Grünberg said, as well as backend engineers: “if you look at the operation teams, it reduces their burden to do repetitive things. And so platform engineers build and design internal developer platforms, and help and serve users. “ This conversation, hosted by Heather Joslyn, TNS features editor, dove into platform engineering: what it is, how it works, the problems it is intended to solve, and how to get started in building a platform engineering operation in your organization. It also debunks some key fallacies around the concept. This episode was sponsored by Humanitec. The Limits of ‘You Build It, You Run It’ The notion of “you build it, you run it” — first coined by Werner Vogels, chief technology officer of [sponsor_inline_mention slug="amazon-web-services-aws" ]Amazon,[/sponsor_inline_mention] in a 2006 interview — established that developers should “own” their applications throughout their entire lifecycle. But, Grünberg said, that may not be realistic in an age of rapidly proliferating microservices and multiple, distributed deployment environments. “The scale that we're operating today is just totally different,” he said. “The applications are much more complex.” End-to-end ownership, he added, is “a noble dream, but unfair towards the individual contributor. We're asking developers to do so much at once. And then we're always complaining that the output isn't there or not delivering fast enough. But we're not making it easy for them to deliver.” Creating a “golden path” — though the creation by platform teams of internal developer platforms (IDPs) — can not only free developers from unnecessary cognitive load, Grünberg said, but also help make their code more secure and standardized. For Ops engineers, he said, the adoption of platform engineering can also help free them from doing the same tasks over and over. “If you want to know whether it's a good idea to look at platform engineering, I recommend go to your service desk and look at the tickets that you're receiving,” Grünberg said. “And if you have things like, ‘Hey, can you debug that deployment?’ and ‘Can you spin up in a moment all these repetitive requests?’ that's probably a good time to take a step back and ask yourself, ‘Should the operations people actually spend time doing these manual things?’” The Biggest Fallacies about Platform Engineering For organizations that are interested in adopting platform engineering, the Humanitec CEO attacked some of the biggest misconceptions about the practice. Chief among them: failing to treat their platform as a product, in the same way a company would begin creating any product, by starting with research into customer needs. “If you think about how we would develop a software feature, we wouldn't be sitting in a room and taking some assumptions and then building something,” he said. “We would go out to the user, and then actually interview them and say, ‘Hey, what's your problem? What's the most pressing problem?’” Other fallacies embraced by platform engineering newbies, he said, are “visualization” — the belief that all devs need is another snazzy new dashboard or portal to look at — and believing the platform team has to go all-in right from the start, scaling up a big effort immediately. Such an effort, he said is “doomed to fail.” Instead, Grünberg said, “I'm always advocating for starting really small, come up with what's the most lowest common tech denominator. Is that containerization with EKS? Perfect, then focus on that." And don’t forget to give special attention to those early...