Nobody Should Believe Me

John Stewart is arrested shortly after Knowellan’s death, but despite what appears to be strong evidence of abuse, the case against John is never taken to court. Andrea traces how we ended up here, ten years later, with no one held accountable for taking the life of a child. Featuring Experts: Dr. Sally Smith, Child Abuse Pediatrician Mike Weber, Former Crimes Against Children Detective Dr. Cathy Ayoub, Nurse Practitioner and Professor of Psychology at Harvard Matthew Torbenson, Assistant District Attorney *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On Easter Sunday in 1993, the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville erupted into chaos. Tensions between prisoners and staff had reached a breaking point, sparking one of the longest prison sieges in U.S. history. Over eleven days, nine inmates and one corrections officer would lose their lives. But what caused the riot? And for the hundreds trapped inside, what did it mean to survive it? Today’s episode kicks off a month-long exploration of the Lucasville uprising. An event that put all eyes on Ohio, and left one man reeling in its wake. *** Listen to Truer Crime: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/truer-crime/id1565741041 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Investigators work to reconstruct Knowellan Kelly’s final hours in the care of John Stewart and his grandfather. John claims there is exculpatory evidence that proves he didn’t hurt Knowellen, but is that really the story the evidence tells? Featuring: Dr. Sally Smith, Child Abuse Pediatrician Dr. Russell Vega, Medical Examiner *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After 15-month old Knowellan Kelly is rushed to the hospital following a seizure, doctors discover catastrophic injuries. Andrea walks through the medical evidence with experts whose findings point to repeated inflicted trauma. As investigators struggle to reconcile conflicting accounts from John Stewart and Knowellan’s mother and grandfather, a tangled web emerges. Featuring: Dr. Sally Smith, Child Abuse Pediatrician Dr. Russell Vega, Medical Examiner Matthew Torbenson, Assistant District Attorney Dr. Stephen Boos, Child Abuse Pediatrician *** Vote for us for the Webby's People's Voice Award: https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/features/best-indie-podcast Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After John Stewart, a Florida man charged with–but never prosecuted for–the death of his girlfriend's 15-month old son reaches out to Andrea to tell her she’s all wrong about his case Andrea goes on a deep dive to find out what really happened to Knowellan Kelly, the baby who lost his life ten years ago. John–who was featured in Take Care of Maya–claims that doctors and investigators falsely accused him: but the truth turns out to be much more complicated. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Season Seven of Nobody Should Believe Me. Andrea revisits the case of Maya Kowalski—the story at the center of the Netflix film Take Care of Maya–and the family’s high-profile lawsuit against Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital. What became widely framed as a story about “medical kidnapping” began when hospital staff reported suspected medical child abuse after Maya arrived with a history of extreme ketamine treatments. How did a case of horrific abuse become a story about evil doctors kidnapping children? Featuring: Ethen Shapiro, Attorney for Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital *** Listen to our 4-part recap of the Kowalski Case: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/revisiting-kowalski-part-one-the-turn/id1615637188?i=1000750439578 Listen to our season 3 coverage of the Kowalski Case: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s03-e01-special-report-watching-take-care-of-maya-re-release/id1615637188 Listen to Andrea and Dr. Bex’s coverage of the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins Trial: https://www.patreon.com/collection/548199 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/@NobodyShouldBelieveMePod Follow Andrea on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit: https://www.munchausensupport.com/ The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Season 7 of the groundbreaking true crime podcast Nobody Should Believe Me investigates why so many Americans believe doctors are “medically kidnapping” children from innocent parents. Florida man John Stewart insists he was falsely accused of the murder of 15-month-old Knowellan Kelly—a story media outlets and documentary filmmakers have echoed in sympathetic portrayals. But a months-long investigation into the case, including interviews with the doctors involved and with Stewart himself, reveals a far more complicated story of violence, deception, and injustice. Season 7 asks the questions others didn’t: what really happened to Knowellan Kelly? As the season unfolds, Stewart’s case leads us into a disturbing ecosystem of parents who claim they were falsely accused of abuse, alongside fringe medical experts and hardline parents’ rights activists. Together, they are fueling conspiracy theories about “evil” child abuse pediatricians and successfully advocating for laws that undermine child abuse investigations and weaken protections for vulnerable children. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this final recap episode, we revisit the final months of Maya Kowalski’s sheltering at Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital and the tragic events that followed. While the dependency case and abuse investigation continued, tensions within the Kowalski family were escalating. After a difficult court hearing in January 2017, Beata Kowalski died by suicide, leaving behind emails asking others to “take care of Maya”. Following Beata’s death, Maya was eventually released to her father’s custody, where she continued to improve and was able to return to school without further ketamine treatment. In the years that followed, the Kowalski family filed a lawsuit against the hospital that would ultimately lead to a high-profile trial, widespread media coverage, and the Netflix documentary Take Care of Maya. *** Just a note that today’s episode includes mention and description of suicide. If you or someone you know needs help please call 988 or visit 988lifeline.org *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the third part of our Kowalski recap, Andrea walks through the events that led to Maya’s hospitalization and what hospital staff observed in those first days. As doctors quickly became concerned about both Maya’s condition and the unusual treatments she had been receiving, the hospital brought in a child abuse pediatrician and an investigation into possible medical child abuse began. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea sheds light on the disconnect between the narrative presented publicly vs the medical records and trial testimony. She traces how ketamine became the driving force in Maya Kowalski’s treatment from Dr. Anthony Kirkpatrick. What followed was a rapid escalation: four-day ketamine infusions, increasingly alarming blog posts written in Maya’s voice, and ultimately a controversial, high-dose ketamine coma in Mexico. This sets the stage for Maya’s arrival at Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea has been following the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children's case since it first received national attention, and previously covered it in depth in our third season. Within this 4-part series, we’re revisiting the case with the benefit of additional trial testimony, released records, and appellate developments. In this first part, we’re going back to 2015 to revisit the events that set this case in motion. We’re sharing this recap now because the Kowalski case is directly relevant to themes we’ll be exploring in season 7 of Nobody Should Believe Me. The public conversation around this case—shaped by courtroom proceedings, media coverage, and documentary storytelling—has had broader implications for how medical child abuse allegations are understood and debated. *** Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation, Kate Downey, the host and creator of the podcast Cramped, shares her personal journey with severe period pain and the challenges she faced in the medical system. She discusses the lack of understanding and research surrounding women's health issues and emphasizes the importance of advocacy, education, and open conversations about women's health. Kate and Andrea also explore the complicated overlap of visiting multiple doctors for unresolved symptoms vs doctor shopping in medical child abuse cases. They discuss how we can demand better research, better transparency, and better care. *** Listen to Cramped: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cramped/id1778101696 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Part Two of Andrea’s conversation with Gypsy-Rose Blanchard, Gypsy reflects on systemic failures by doctors and child protective services and the long-term impact of being conditioned to fear helpers. She also shares what it’s been like to unlearn harmful coping mechanisms and build healthy relationships while reconnecting with family. Their conversation culminates in a hopeful note as Gypsy discusses her new role as a mother and her desire to create a positive legacy for her daughter. * * * https://www.officialgypsyroseblanchard.com/ Follow Gypsy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gypsyrose.insta Watch Mommy Dead and Dearest: https://www.hbomax.com/movies/mommy-dead-and-dearest/87b41129-1e1e-41ff-b32c-926711b94311 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea talks with Gypsy Rose Blanchard about life after surviving Munchausen by proxy, incarceration, and becoming a public figure without her consent. Two years after her release from prison, Gypsy reflects on what it means to build a sense of self after years of extreme control, medical abuse, and sudden media attention. Their conversation explores the realities of Munchausen by proxy, including the systemic failures that allow abuse to continue and the long-term impact on survivors’ development, autonomy, and relationships. Gypsy shares what accountability and growth look like for her today. * * * https://www.officialgypsyroseblanchard.com/ Follow Gypsy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gypsyrose.insta Watch Mommy Dead and Dearest: https://www.hbomax.com/movies/mommy-dead-and-dearest/87b41129-1e1e-41ff-b32c-926711b94311 Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Andrea is joined once again by retired detective and medical child abuse expert Mike Weber to discuss a case that closely mirrors patterns we saw in season 6 of the show. The conversation centers on a caregiver who presented a child as chronically and mysteriously ill, resulting in repeated hospitalizations and invasive medical interventions. Together, Andrea and Mike examine the systemic failures that allowed the abuse to continue despite prior warnings, including gaps in CPS oversight, lack of training, and reluctance to act without a catastrophic trigger. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part two of Andrea’s conversation with writer and former hoax hunter Taryn Wright, the discussion shifts from the Warrior Eli case to the broader impact of exposing deception online. Together, Andrea and Taryn explore the rise of attention as its own form of currency and the ethical challenges of telling these stories responsibly. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the early 2010s, a heartbreaking story circulated widely online: a family documenting their young son Eli’s battle with cancer, following the sudden death of his mother. When investigative writer Taryn Wright came across the story, what began as casual curiosity quickly led to a shocking series of revelations about a story thousands of strangers had become deeply invested in. In this episode, Andrea talks with Taryn about how the Warrior Eli hoax unraveled and the very real impact it had on the people who believed it. The conversation explores why these stories resonate so deeply and what happens when deception is exposed. * * * Try out Andrea’s Podcaster Coaching App: https://studio.com/apps/andrea/podcaster Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part 2 of Andrea’s Justina Pelletier coverage, she’s joined by Beau Berman, the reporter that broke this story. *** On this show we talk a lot about how Munchausen by Proxy cases are covered in the media, and today we’re getting the inside scoop from the reporter who broke one of the most high profile MBP stories. Beau Berman began covering the Justina Pelletier case back in 2013 as a young reporter and watched over the years as the case evolved and got stranger and stranger. He tells Andrea about how the story came across his desk and the complexities of trying to keep the balance on both sides while dealing with HIPAA. He reflects on his time with the Pelletiers and his thoughts on the case more than a decade after covering it. *** Links/Resources: Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-02-justina-pelletier-part-1/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-04-justina-pelletier-part-3-with-beau-berman/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-05-justina-pelletier-part-4/id1615637188 The Battle for Justina Pelletier: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/the-battle-for-justina-pelletier/5657866397468499112 Read about Justina Pelleiter in The Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2020/01/12/pelletier/0I2dQrYlZFJ9tNzscaXdAO/story.html Join Patreon for a look at Andrea and Dr. Bex’s previous coverage of the Justina Pelletier case: https://www.patreon.com/collection/507935 Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As 2025 comes to a close and we look forward to season 7, we’re airing the first part of Andrea’s coverage on the Justina Pelletier case—the case that opened the Pandora’s Box of medical kidnapping coverage in the media. *** Case Files is back with the first episode of a multi-part series on the Justina Pelletier case. Andrea and Dr. Bex covered this case in the subscriber feed, but, due to popular demand, decided to bring it to the main podcast. Justina Pelletier was a 14-year-old girl whose hospitalization at Boston Children's Hospital sparked a significant legal and media frenzy. Andrea and Dr. Bex’s discussion covers the medical background of Justina's condition, including mitochondrial disease and somatoform disorder, the treatment plans proposed by the hospital, and the escalating conflict between her family and medical professionals. *** Links/Resources: Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-03-justina-pelletier-part-2-with-beau-berman/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-04-justina-pelletier-part-3-with-beau-berman/id1615637188 Listen to Justina Pelletier Part 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-05-justina-pelletier-part-4/id1615637188 The Battle for Justina Pelletier: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/the-battle-for-justina-pelletier/5657866397468499112 Read about Justina Pelleiter in The Boston Globe: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2020/01/12/pelletier/0I2dQrYlZFJ9tNzscaXdAO/story.html Join Patreon for a look at Andrea and Dr. Bex’s previous coverage of the Justina Pelletier case: https://www.patreon.com/collection/507935 Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the second episode of Andrea’s coverage of the Jesika Jones case, she’s joined by Derek Jones, Jesika’s then-husband. Derek bravely tells the story of how he and Jesika met, their home life, and the decline in their daughter's health. Talking to Derek gives listeners insight into the manipulative nature of perpetrators, not only with their victims, but also with everyone around them, and the mental toll of coming to terms with such a monumental breach of trust. *** Links/Resources: Listen to Jesika Jones Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-06-jesika-jones-part-1-with-detective-mike-weber/id1615637188 Listen to Jesika Jones Part 3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-08-jesika-jones-part-3-with-derek-jones/id1615637188 Listen to Jesika Jones Part 4: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/case-files-09-jesika-jones-part-4-with-detective-mike-weber/id1615637188 Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices