WhyWork Podcast

Season 05 Episode 02: More than just paper airplanes: The projectiles impacting our teachers "I have injury statistics on teachers," inivites Sara, "Tell me how is it that they are struck by flying objects? Hit by projectiles!" That question leads to confessions by the boys as they recall their school days. Sara remembers her Italian language teacher who used to throw chalk at students. "It's the reverse now!" exclaims Trajce. Sara challenges the team to consider the enduring impact of good design, starting with the environment for a lasting effect on those using the space; positively, if well designed. Alan connects with this idea. Trajce links the teaching woes to past discussions on the stressors faced by teachers, explored in in S02 E13: An upstanding citizen with salmon in his pocket. The team can’t help but travel south in their conversation, recalling the story of a teacher caught on film, after hours, in the most inconvenient way.

Season 05 Episode 01: Citizen Control. "Consultation - meh! Peh!" complains Sara, with disdain. "There is a lot of corporate hazing and gaslighting," reflects Trajce. This episode was spurned by the presentation by Dr Elise Crawford of Central Queensland University on her reesarch of worker particpation in their work design during the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society of Australia Queensland seminar last year. Sara elaborates on the tiered scales of organisational citizenship which can fall into the categories of 'non participation,' 'tokenism,' and 'degrees of citizen power.' Alarmingly, 'consultation,' falls into the category of 'tokenism.' Alan reminds us that this is a workplace obligation in the work health and safety legislation ."It's a sham!" exclaims Trajce. He trails, "This sounds like another 'C-word' in our lexicon of work vocabulary..."

WhyWork Season 05 Ready for Take Off, Coming Soon

There's more: The English legal profession, "Trajce, you're always on top of this," says Alan. Consultation, Teachers. Lawyers. All of it is on the table. We're back. Educate your mind because the system will keep you blind.

Honey, we're home. Season 05 is coming to you soon. Kitchen benches and silicosis. It's a thing. Work design versus interior design. Home renovations and engineered stone. Yah, let's do this. "Testing, testing, testing, hi there." "It's an intro, guys". Educate your mind.

Honey, we're home... Season 05. Educate your mind because the system can be blind. Create a new path. We're back. Teachers. signage, personal protective equipment, controversy, systematic design, and more giggles. Let's just call it like it is. Caught on film.

Season 04 Episode 13: Alan, Trajce, and Sara discuss the casualised work phenomenon introduced in a rampant way during the pandemic, causing the management of distributed work and the advent of remote video call meetings.Trajce discloses one of his secret nicknames, The Count von Count from Sesame Street, which is met by Alan and Sara’s appreciative laughter who cannot 'unsee' Trajce as The Count. Sara shares a junk food gem, passed to her by a past workmate and friend, Dr Brent Oldenburg, the chocolate M&M covered movie popcorn! Alan discusses the confrontation, the unfriendly and alarming case of arrest, and the strength of force that can be shown by police during their arrests of crime suspects – “a dangerous scenario for all involved,” explains Alan. He tells a story of the arrest of a sole parent in front of her child after her failure to pay for petrol. “Haven’t we all done that or nearly done that?” asks Sara. In this episode, a special visit is made by loyal subscriber, Carmen Mitchell, as she delivers her magic artwork charcoal and white pen drawings of the Stag, the Owl, and the Rascal (Otter), to celebrate the team’s spirit animals, discussed in Season 02 Episode 14: Spirit Animals.

“Never smile at a crocodile,” chimes Alan. This episode speaks on working with critters; the first, a case of two soldiers attacked by a crocodile in Far North Queensland. Comcare charged the Australian Department of Defense for breaching federal work and safety laws for failing to maintain a safe system of work, training, and policy implementation. “You’ve obviously seen an alligator or two in your travels across America, Sara,” Trajce suggests. The boys start chest-thumping their machismo argument that the salty crocodile of Australia is bigger and tougher than the American alligator counterpart, “A nibbler,” admonishes Trajce, “I’d like to see them arm wrestle and see who rolls better.” The team continue to debate on work, tourism, and the intersection of animals that bite. “What is just good lawyering versus rational judgments?” Sara demands answers. Alan returns to the case discussed in Season 02 and Episode 07: Men and Women 2: Nightstalker Fright Night and recent judgments, and Sara explains real-world creative that leverage human nature and accommodate commercial toileting habits.

Season 04 Episode 11: The things we do for fun. WARNING: This episode discusses fatalities Alan reflects on the prosecutions and a pending coronial inquest on the fatalities of the six Tasmanian children (and three injured children) while playing in jumping castles during their school fair. “The judgement on the facts is pending,” Alan explained, “and there are no industrial manslaughter judgements in Tasmania.” The team grapples with the loss of innocent lives and the relaxed approaches to risk management when we embrace recreational fun versus work activities. “You are ready to have fun, you are expecting to have fun, and you are not expecting to die,” Trajce explicates, “crocodiles attack people, islands erupt, and jumping castles fly away.” The team reference the Queensland Amusement Devices Code of Practice 2023 . Sara shifts the discussion on workplace protections to people, culture, and design by introducing the '9 Levels on Human Readiness' to adopt new technologies and to manage the business transformation. “These considerations provide rationale yet again on the need for human factors professionals to be embedded in organisations and champion work strategy and systems design.” Sara implores.

Season 04 Episode 10: Prosecuting ‘nicely’ WARNING: Suicide is discussed in this episode. Alan introduces a model of prosecution adopted by the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator that provides guidance to industry and focuses on the most important prosecutorial issues. Alan and Trajce dream of dismantling ideological boundaries so that business and industry can return to the fundamental questions on, “What is our purpose?" In this way, creative solutions can be found to solve age-old problems. Sara is excited by what she sees as the favourable view of design in this light and her influence on the way that the boys think. She reiterates her desire to advance three pillars in work design: workplace protections, people and culture, and design (For more on this, watch Sara's presentation at HFESA 2023) “Hey mum, hey dad,” sidles Trajce, “are we becoming though leaders?” Sara exclaims, “I’m just an agitator, a rabble-rouser - I am never satisfied!” while Alan heartedly agrees with her proclamation. “If we raise thought-provoking material, and we generate strong reactions from among our listeners,” says Trajce, “we are the ‘agent provocateur’.” Thank you to subscriber Craig McDonald for raising considerations in the Rail Industry. These concerns included queries about government control on capital expenditures. In these cases, Craig wondered with whom responsibility lies when considering safe design, design impact, and the causal chain of responsibility.

CAUTION: This episode speaks on near miss harm of a child. Season 04 Episode 09: This episode speaks about the first pillar of work design, workplace protections, and the sociopolitical influences of worker empowerment. Thank you to subscriber, David Denoux, who shared his story on construction work and safety concerns. “If something goes wrong, terribly wrong, it will change your life,” warns Alan, “just say 'no' and walk away.” Sara reminds Alan and Trajce that sometimes a worker may not feel empowered or privileged to walk away or to speak up, hinting at the second pillar in work design: people and culture. Trajce empathises with the workers needing to put food on the table. The reflections mirror some of the concerns raised in Season 04 Episode 08: The archaic adage of deserving a good spanking. Sara introduces a third pillar of work design, ‘design’, and speaks on good work design versus designing good work, and 'the accidental designer' versus 'the intentional designer.' The team pay tribute to the WhyWork Podcast’s principal sponsor, ViVA health at work, and the design movers and shakers that influence much of her team's work: Katre Bailey, graphic design of 45 Degrees Studio; Michael Grima, industrial design of qDesign; David Denoux, a user-experience and service designer; Tyde Rabbit, video production; and David Hall, the remarkable dance-party purveyor of fun, and Melbourne’s Guru Dudu Disko Duk Duk.

Season 04 Episode 08: This episode covers two main topics. The first, thanks to our subscriber Andrew Nicholls, a design and technology teacher and researcher, who informed us of his advocacy for the provision of personal protective equipment to school technology and design staff. Alan reminds us of the case against a university because of levies charged to nursing students for their fit testing of respiratory protective equipment before they undertook their hospital placements. Trajce sites Section 273 of the Australian Work Health and Safety Act 2011 (Person not to levy workers) arguing that a Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking ‘must not impose a levy or charge on a worker for anything done or provided." He also sites Section 19, arguing that a workplace must care for ‘others.’ Second, the argument for care makes Alan come unstuck (as much as Alan ever comes undone), and Trajce and Sara are aghast as Alan explains the case he found in the Royal Australian Navy court martial records. The case involved a 57-year-old male supervising Lieutenant Commander and a 25-year-old female Junior Officer. While mentoring the junior, the 'improvement coaching' involved an age-old punishment practice of spanking the junior. “Shut-up, stop-stop-stop!” Trajce and Sara protest. “This is a slippery slope,” Trajce reflects and concludes, “If this story gripped me, it would grip a nation.” This episode is a fascinating segue to Season 04 Episode 07: ‘Every Sunday I Eat A Pie’, Mate: The power intent of a hierarchy of controls.

Season 04 Episode 08: This episode covers two main topics. The first, thanks to our subscriber Andrew Nicholls, a design and technology teacher and researcher, who informed us of his advocacy for the provision of personal protective equipment to school technology and design staff. Alan reminds us of the case against a university because of levies charged to nursing students for their fit testing of respiratory protective equipment before they undertook their hospital placements. Trajce sites Section 273 of the Australian Work Health and Safety Act 2011 (Person not to levy workers) arguing that a Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking ‘must not impose a levy or charge on a worker for anything done or provided." He also sites Section 19, arguing that a workplace must care for ‘others.’ Second, the argument for care makes Alan come unstuck (as much as Alan ever comes undone), and Trajce and Sara are aghast as Alan explains the case he found in the Royal Australian Navy court martial records. The case involved a 57-year-old male supervising Lieutenant Commander and a 25-year-old female Junior Officer. While mentoring the junior, the 'improvement coaching' involved an age-old punishment practice of spanking the junior. “Shut-up, stop-stop-stop!” Trajce and Sara protest. “This is a slippery slope,” Trajce reflects and concludes, “If this story gripped me, it would grip a nation.” This episode is a fascinating segue to Season 04 Episode 07: ‘Every Sunday I Eat A Pie’, Mate: The power intent of a hierarchy of controls.

Season 04 Episode 07: This episode stemmed from conversations with Dylan Matthews of the BHP FutureFit Academy on the seemingly innocent and instructive applications of the Hierarchy of Controls (HOC) in safety management: elimination, substitution, isolation, engineering, administrative controls, and personal protective equipment (ESIEAP – ‘Every Sunday I Eat A Pie’). Trajce is fired up by this topic as he recalls the 17th Century philosophy of Thomas Hobbes on jurisprudence, governance, liberalism, and utilitarianism. “A hierarchy of control is not intended to be as rigid as it implies with an unyielding iron cage of the law constraining work strategy. ‘Hierarchy’ is more politically forceful than ‘design,’ and that can create alarm in the workplace. To punctuate this idea, Trajce transforms into the Wizard of Oz with his threats and warnings. Alan interjects, “Trajce, am I mistaken?” he asks, “Wasn’t the Wizard determined to be a fraud?” Sara pontificates on what she views as three pillars of work design: workplace protections, people and culture, and design, and she is anguished by the lack of attention by organisations and industries on the design pillar. She argues that human factors mediates these pillars in work strategy and must be deeply embedded in operations, with human factors professionals empowered by executive-level, decision-making authority. She elaborates on the ‘enduring impact’ (EI) of good work design introduced in Season 04 Episode 05: To live is to be anxious, especially in the toxic workplace. (Note: The EMESRT Vehicle Interaction working groups have done remarkable work on determining their classification of the '9 Layers of Control Effectiveness', an inspiration for Sara's thought on the enduring impact of design interventions).

Season 04 Episode 07: This episode stemmed from conversations with Dylan Matthews of the BHP FutureFit Academy on the seemingly innocent and instructive applications of the Hierarchy of Controls (HOC) in safety management: elimination, substitution, isolation, engineering, administrative controls, and personal protective equipment (ESIEAP – ‘Every Sunday I Eat A Pie’). Trajce is fired up by this topic as he recalls the 17th Century philosophy of Thomas Hobbes on jurisprudence, governance, liberalism, and utilitarianism. “A hierarchy of control is not intended to be as rigid as it implies with an unyielding iron cage of the law constraining work strategy. ‘Hierarchy’ is more politically forceful than ‘design,’ and that can create alarm in the workplace. To punctuate this idea, Trajce transforms into the Wizard of Oz with his threats and warnings. Alan interjects, “Trajce, am I mistaken?” he asks, “Wasn’t the Wizard determined to be a fraud?” Sara pontificates on what she views as three pillars of work design: workplace protections, people and culture, and design, and she is anguished by the lack of attention by organisations and industries on the design pillar. She argues that human factors mediates these pillars in work strategy and must be deeply embedded in operations, with human factors professionals empowered by executive-level, decision-making authority. She elaborates on the ‘enduring impact’ (EI) of good work design introduced in Season 04 Episode 05: To live is to be anxious, especially in the toxic workplace. (Note: The EMESRT Vehicle Interaction working groups have done remarkable work on determining their classification of the '9 Layers of Control Effectiveness', an inspiration for Sara's thought on the enduring impact of design interventions).

WARNING: A fatality and suicide are discussed in this episode. Season 04 Episode 06: “We’re all human,” Alan explains, “even during our methane messaging,” as he details the news story of U.S. Biden administration’s climate envoy, John Kerry, delivering a passionate speech on climate change in the most awkward exchange that was captured on film. The idea of ‘messaging’ led to the trio’s, Alan, Trajce, and Sara’s, expansion on the WhyWork Podcast’s vocabulary After Alan introduces topics on mining, Sara recalls her visit to the Mackay Resources Center of Excellence (RCOE) with Karen Sanders of Real Serious Games (RSG) to explore the centre's physical model of an underground mine. Alan suggests another case of interest: the WorkSafe VIC charge against the Victorian Building Authority. In this case, an inspector was issued a redundancy, an alleged cause of the inspector’s anguish before their suicide. Alan asks about a more graceful transition plan for loyal and long-term employees and Sara describes ‘lifecycle ergonomics’ coupled with internal customer journey mapping as a corollary to customer journey mapping: an organisational approach to the ‘multi-player’ user experiences. She uses a yoga analogy to consider the worker transition because “the exit part is the part that we usually get wrong,” she explains. Trajce agrees and contends that people just want to feel valued, “Love is the message, and the message is love,” he says, from ‘The Message is Love’ song by Arthur Baker.

WARNING: Suicide is mentioned in this episode. Season 04 Episode 05: Trajce introduces the idea of psychosocial factors causing work-related mental health disorders and psychological injury in a case in Victoria that led to the reguator's prosecution of a government agency. Alan explains that the injured person in this case committed suicide and even though this loss of life was not directly related to the workplace dynamics, the prosecution fine was significant. "This case," Alan recalls, "demonstrates that the public sector is not immune to prosecution." Trajce speaks on Brodie’s law, Victorian anti-bullying June 2011 legislation that made serious workplace bullying a criminal offence, punishable by up to 10 years in jail. The courts instituted this law after the tragic suicide of a young woman, Brodie Panlock, who was subjected to relentless bullying at work. Sara introduces the idea of the ‘Enduring Impact’ of good design, the new ‘EI’, instead of ‘Emotional Intelligence’, she discusses the ‘Enduring Impact’ of design strategy. She urges workplaces to synthesise codes of practices and ISO standards on hazard types in an integrated whole-of-person and work system design practice. This approach compels businesses to consider who is most vulnerable in the workplace and what circumstances cause vulnerability among workers, especially when “To live is to be anxious” she theorises. This episode aligns well with Season 01 Episode 05: Kozarov and the need for purpose. Tip: Here are resources on recovery-oriented language.

Season 04 Episode 04: "It's time to put the lid on dust," Trajce advances. Engineered stone, silica exposure - this has been in the media of late. The trio, Alan, Trajce, and Sara, discuss who is vulnerable to these exposures and why. Trajce argues that the regulators must not demonise one hazard exposure. Rather, pragmatism is needed to determine the safety of work. Alan argues the case that even when a business adheres to the workplace adivsory exposure standards for respirable dust, it does not matter when evaluated by a regulator. Trajce reminds us that dust is everywhere across many industries. Sara begs the question, "Are you an intentional designer or an accidental designer?" She argues that there is a cost to making decisions that impact on workers and systems when the trade-offs are not considered. Sara stipulates that just because a person makes work-related decisions, it does not make them strategic or intentional. Many times, work design is accidental. Sara pays tribute to a friend and mentor, Ms Peg Pinard of San Luis Obispo County, California. In her ode to Peg, she reflects on the concerns about engineered stones and the smoking ordinances instituted and pioneered by this Californian City and the County.

Season 04 Episode 04: "It's time to put the lid on dust," Trajce advances. Engineered stone, silica exposure - this has been in the media of late. The trio, Alan, Trajce, and Sara, discuss who is vulnerable to these exposures and why. Trajce argues that the regulators must not demonise one hazard exposure. Rather, pragmatism is needed to determine the safety of work. Alan argues the case that even when a business adheres to the workplace adivsory exposure standards for respirable dust, it does not matter when evaluated by a regulator. Trajce reminds us that dust is everywhere across many industries. Sara begs the question, "Are you an intentional designer or an accidental designer?" She argues that there is a cost to making decisions that impact on workers and systems when the trade-offs are not considered. Sara stipulates that just because a person makes work-related decisions, it does not make them strategic or intentional. Many times, work design is accidental. Sara pays tribute to a friend and mentor, Ms Peg Pinard of San Luis Obispo County, California. In her ode to Peg, she reflects on the concerns about engineered stones and the smoking ordinances instituted and pioneered by this Californian City and the County.

Season 04 Episode 03: Sara provokes thought on rites of passage by asking, “What are we holding on to in work and education simply because of a social construct established by rites of passage?” and, “Are the rites of passage of old still useful now?” Sara challenges the notion of adhering to rites of passage versus embracing transformative, generative work or education system re-design. She provides healthcare examples and asks how work designers effectively elicit knowledge to inform their design. She wonders how facilitators masterfully transfer that knowledge to those who need that information. She questions, also, whether those with the power to make changes will redesign the conventions of work to provide a better user experience. Trajce reflects on the way that the WhyWork Podcast considers caselaw and the realities of life, or “the non-vanilla spice of life that challenges conventions.” Historically, the legal institutions prohibited women from practicing law, for example. “Hell,” Sara complains, “Australian establishments did not allow women in pubs not too long ago!” The trio, Alan, Trajce, and Sara, dissect rites of passage in social systems that diminish a population group, reflect power disparity, and can cause humility among people with diminished power. They call for the compelling need for organisations and educators to identify and absolve the rites of passage that cause harm and to protect workers and students from the occupational psychosocial hazard exposures with consequences of trauma.